Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Oh, that is true. I would still benefit from it tho. I got the 10Gb connection up, all servers have RAID 0 SSD's so transfers should get a nice boost from 2 SSDs working cache (I hope, tests will be next week only...) RAID 0? That's a bit risky! You lose one, you lose everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @@PVTD lol change the is to an if before the "you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) It's not about realtime duplication. It's if you have and kind of duplication. I have enabled backup, so this would apply to me. If you have duplication enabled but only one SSD, an archive drive will be used for the other copy during balancing, until balanced. Having two SSDs, both of those will be used while balancing instead of an archive drive. Close If you have duplication enabled but only one SSD, an archive drive will be used for the other copy during COPYING (too the pool) and both of those will be used while COPYING instead of an archive drive. Balancing is more redistribution of data across archive disks which includes emptying ssd cache disks - depending on the rules you set The Cache is Basically a similar idea to Raid 1 (although its not riad) Edited February 20, 2017 by PenkethBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 can't read that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Close If you have duplication enabled but only one SSD, an archive drive will be used for the other copy during COPYING (too the pool) and both of those will be used while COPYING instead of an archive drive. Balancing is more redistribution of data across archive disks which includes emptying ssd cache disks - depending on the rules you set The Cache is Basically a similar idea to Raid 1 (although its not riad) any better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Close If you have duplication enabled but only one SSD, an archive drive will be used for the other copy during COPYING (too the pool) and both of those will be used while COPYING instead of an archive drive. Balancing is more redistribution of data across archive disks which includes emptying ssd cache disks - depending on the rules you set The Cache is Basically a similar idea to Raid 1 (although its not riad) any better That's wrong. This is a balancing plugin. Not a speed up copying to pool plugin. Reading the notes, it says nothing about copying to the pool, only about balancing. The SSDs are used to hold the new files, until space is made for them. And I would assume they are also used in the process of moving the other files on the archive drives, to allocate space. StableBit DrivePool Balancing Plugin - SSD Optimizer ==================================================== Author: Covecube Inc. With this plug-in you designate one or more disks as special SSD disks. SSD disks will receive all new files created on the pool. It will be the balancer's job to move all the files from the SSD disks to the Archive disks in the background. You can use this plug-in to create a kind of write cache in order to improve write performance on the pool. Optionally, you can also set up a file placement order for your archive disks, so that they will be filled up one at a time. * This plug-in replaces the "Archive Optimizer" and should not be used together with it or the "Ordered File Placement" plug-in. * Any time the SSD designated disks will have data on them your pool condition will be below 100% because those files have been scheduled to be moved off of those disks on the next balancing run. This is normal. * If you are using duplicated files, then you should specify multiple SDD disks or else the system will fall back to an Archive disk for one or more of the file parts. * If you've selected the option to "Move the existing files into the predefined order on the archive disks" and you have duplicated files, it may take more than one balancing pass to get everything organized. * Because this plug-in is very specialized, it should generally be used by itself. * If you've created file placement rules that are attempting to keep files on drives that are designated as SSDs, then you should disable the "Unless a drive is being emptied" option, under the "File placement settings" category, on the "General" tab. Otherwise, your File Placement rules will not be respected by this plugin (because it is emptying the SSD drives). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVTD 37 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @ real time backups are made to the pool it also only hosts the OS and whatever main purpose it does. @@PenkethBoy not sure what you mean :S (could it be the alcohol?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @ real time backups are made to the pool it also only hosts the OS and whatever main purpose it does. What the guide is saying is that it's recommended to use more than one, but not essential. As you have duplicate files, they recommend using two SSDs so that your archive drives aren't needed to fulfill the rest of the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Nope sorry its the way you are reading it "With this plug-in you designate one or more disks as special SSD disks. SSD disks will receive all new files created on the pool. - the SSD cacheIt will be the balancer's job to move all the files from the SSD disks to the Archive disks in the background. - balancing your pool You can use this plugin to create a kind of write cache in order to improve write performance on the pool." - this is where you can use the extra speed of your new network The ssd Optimizer actually does not balance anything - yes it has rules for the balancer rules engine to use - disk order, whats a ssd drive etc - if you remove it balancing still occurs but you lose the ssd cache etc The balancer is the main engine that takes info from the various plugins and any options you specify on its page. There is a lack of punctuation in the wording you have copied and it could be worded better "StableBit DrivePool Balancing, Plugin - SSD Optimizer" The confusion may come from the fact the SSd optimizer does two things 1) the ssd cache technology and 2) provides extra rules to the balancer - it is a specialised plugin and does a lot more than the rest but is very useful The copying i am referring to is copying from a data source to the pool - ssd optimiser sits in front of you pool and accepts the data - this gives you the speed increase in copying across your new 10g network Later when the balancer does its work it copies the duplicated files sitting on your ssd's to the pool - making sure it maintains the duplication by putting the copies on different drives. Duplication is something separate - it can be real time as you copy data to your pool, off line at night if you have real time duplication turned off or if you manually change some duplication parameter through the interface. Hopefully that makes it clearer - when you see it work it will be a bit clearer also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) @@PVTD might be worth a try IS you do not want to add two ssd or more to your pool should have been might be worth a try IF you do not want to add two ssd or more to your pool minor typo - have shot the typist - ouch! Edited February 20, 2017 by PenkethBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 What the guide is saying is that it's recommended to use more than one, but not essential. As you have duplicate files, they recommend using two SSDs so that your archive drives aren't needed to fulfill the rest of the load. Yes not essential but... so if you have one ssd and x2 duplication set (assuming real time duplication is on - it is by default) when copying to the pool One copy will be saved on the ssd and one copy on an archive drive - speed of copy limited by speed of HDD if you have two ssd's and x2 duplication set when copying to the pool one copy goes to ssd one and another copy goes to ssd two - speed of copy limited by pool ssd or network speed or source disk speed (if this is an ssd also - bingo 400MB/s + across your 10g network) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) No, I disagree with you. It clearly states it's a balancer, and is in the balancer section of the software. It just allows you to designate SSDs in the pool to better the process. That it allows us to copy to the pool, faster, is a fringe benefit. What if you were to rip a disc directly to pool? Copying is irrelevant. It's primarily designed to make balancing quicker and more efficient. Even the developer says it's a balancing plugin. http://community.covecube.com/index.php?/topic/629-ssd-optimizer-balancing-plugin/ Edited February 20, 2017 by Doofus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Nope sorry you are miss reading it I'm not trying to be obtuse but help you understand what you will see happen when you use the ssd's you have on order and from experience using this software. ...its the balancer's job etc - that's not the plugin (although i agree you could read it that way) - which adds extra rules to the balancers engine along with any other plugins which add more rules. The rules get processed together not one after the other - they are weighted based on some algorithm that i have not seen the rules for - as they are not published if you copy any files to the pool it goes to the ssd's - then at some other time the balancer engine kicks in and moves them to the archive disks - depending what options you have set Yes they use the term balancing plugin which is confusing as they are not consistent overall their documentation. Yes that tab should read plugins rather than balancers - the settings tab is the interface for the balancer engine It has two purposes as a write cache (when you copy/move data to the pool) and to provide balancing rules for shifting the data to the archive disks in the way you want. If it makes it clearer - consider the ssd's as say a small pool of their own which gets flushed to the hdd pool periodically. Without the cache the max speed you will get copying to the pool will be limited to the HDD that the data is being used at that time - add in the ssd's cache and you will get 400 mb/s + rather than say 150MB/s+ for a HHD. Over to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Well, the developer says it's a balancer. I'm good with that. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about. Reading some of the thread confirms it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I do see one thing though. @@Happy2Play attributed it to realtime duplication. It would appear that is primarily correct. And then it allocates the files to the archive drives. Interesting that you don't have to use SSDs for it work, but would be the best choice. Edited February 20, 2017 by Doofus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Do you have more Info on that, I really want to understand it more. Right now it's set up to use the SSD as caching and duplicates to the drive. I understand your theory tho, but I think it can work as solo SSD too, with some performance impact (as it duplicates to multiple drives, impacting your read times depending on how many copies you make.) Having a PCI SSD tho would fix that as you can hit 1k read most probably haha Take a look at this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Well, the developer says it's a balancer. I'm good with that. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about. Reading some of the thread confirms it. yes a balancing plugin not a balancer but its not a problem as its what it does which matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I do see one thing though. @@Happy2Play attributed it to realtime duplication. It would appear that is primarily correct. And then it allocates the files to the archive drives. Interesting that you don't have to use SSDs for it work, but would be the best choice. Finally some agreement Yep never said it had to be a ssd 2 or more is best or match your duplication level if you cant or dont want to it will still work just not at the speed it could.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) And now back to hardware shiny new HDD - even comes with sweets Edited February 20, 2017 by PenkethBoy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVTD 37 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I think @@PenkethBoy made a good point... This is a show your hardware thread, we should make a DrivePool Thread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 yeah i think we have done that to death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 And now back to hardware shiny new HDD - even comes with sweets Are you starting to run out of drive bays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 yes this is the last one for 3.5 - i have one left for a 2.5 but no sata connectors left unless i pop in a cheap two port sata card i have - but no rush One thing i did notice for anybody else think of getting the Archive drives they appear to be in short supply and some indications they might be end of line - this was the last one from one of my suppliers and they are not getting any more. Might be worth a check if you are thinking of getting one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 So you're adding drives just because you can? Lol...or are you filling them up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenkethBoy 2063 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm splitting my drive pool in two - so one pool will be for my media and other "live" files the second pool is now my Backup for things like Blu-ray and DVD rips and other things i only need occasionally - this pool will mostly have the disks in standby as nothing should access it directly As the backup pool will be very lightly used and to maximise the space i went with the Archive drives as they were a good price The Archive drives have performed better than i was expecting - so far none of the reported slow write speeds 160MB/s + at peak Both pools will be/are duplicated but each has circa 30%+ free space Its taken over a week of messing about to get the data and drives moved to a second pool as i stupidly built it all as one - even though i was not sure if it was a good idea - coin flip went the wrong way Should not need to add anymore drives for a while unless i buy a load of Blu-rays or get the live tv stuff to work properly on emby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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