generiq 113 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 minutes ago, Lambtalk said: Premiere is a subscription, per Emby's own ToS lol. Even a one off lifetime payment is just an ongoing subscription to premiere with no defined end date. https://emby.media/premiereterms.html They also make mention of both products and services in their ToS. So whether you agree with it or not, they are by their own definition, an ongoing service provider. Now that's how you properly play devils advocate Well done! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreakon13 132 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lambtalk said: Premiere is a subscription, per Emby's own ToS lol. Even a one off lifetime payment is just an ongoing subscription to premiere with no defined end date. https://emby.media/premiereterms.html They also make mention of both products and services in their ToS. So whether you agree with it or not, they are by their own definition, an ongoing service provider. Now that's how you properly play devils advocate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's called the "Terms of Service" so it's a service by every definition of the word right? I guess you have some kinda point lol. Edited January 29 by Dreakon13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generiq 113 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 @Luke do you serve us? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambtalk 43 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Dreakon13 said: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's called the "Terms of Service" so it's a service by every definition of the word right? I guess you have some kinda point lol. Lol I can argue the other side of the argument as well by pointing out that Emby's terms of use flat out say that you're not entitled to support or upgrades. Section 3j https://emby.media/terms.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generiq 113 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 And now we've gone down the rabbit hole lmao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreakon13 132 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) Yeah, I never really cared enough to actually read the terms. I figured common sense should probably prevail that Emby isn't a monthly subscription service like say... Netflix, that continually provides an actual service for a monthly fee, and not just a fancy way of paying for a different key that someone else buys outright (that technically isn't even required to use the software). Unfortunately the use of language fails me by Emby using both the words subscription and service throughout their website lol. Edited January 29 by Dreakon13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambtalk 43 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Just now, Dreakon13 said: Yeah, I never really cared enough to actually read the terms lol. I figured common sense should probably prevail that Emby isn't a monthly subscription service like say... Netflix, that continually provides an actual service for a monthly fee, and not just a fancy way of paying for a different key than someone else buys outright. Unfortunately the use of language fails me by Emby using both the words subscription and service throughout their website lol. Haha yeah things can get a bit tricky once you start looking at legal terms. Emby server as a software is a product, which you are granted a free licence for. But Emby Premiere is a subscription service they offer on top of the product. Things can get murky when you try to conflate the two. Damn legal jargon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidsnakex37 42 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 14 hours ago, wordlover said: Psst! Hey everyone, in a different thread, I think Luke just said 4.8 might actually drop this week! I hope I didn't jinx things... Ah, the classic "I don't know what the issue is" followed by the infamous "4.8". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locutus64 121 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, generiq said: wasn't suggesting that they did. I was simply offering a retort to emby not being a subscription service. But, would you subscribe to software if it weren't being maintained? EXACTLY THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkassassin07 432 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Maybe, maybe not. You can certainly factor the development cycle into your decision to start/continue subscribing to emby premier. However; your subscription does not obligate the emby team to provide you with new software releases. Especially not on any particular schedule. Motivate? Sure, obviously they'd like to keep their customers relatively happy; but they're not obligated to. Again: it's their software/company/product; they can do with it what they like. Like anything else in life; decisions have consequences. Their choices could drive off customers, or entice new ones; but those are still their decisions to make. 4.8 will be released when the Emby team is ready to release it and not a moment before. Constantly pestering them for a release date won't speed up development. Nor will acting like you're entitled to their work and demanding prompt releases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor68 48 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Plus with the amount of changes included, they could have easily called this 5.0 thereby negating all lifetime licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37183 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 minutes ago, Trevor68 said: Plus with the amount of changes included, they could have easily called this 5.0 thereby negating all lifetime licenses. Even if we called it 5.0, it would not negate licenses. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambtalk 43 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 minutes ago, Trevor68 said: Plus with the amount of changes included, they could have easily called this 5.0 thereby negating all lifetime licenses. Yeah that's just wrong, man... https://emby.media/support/articles/Premiere-Key-Validity.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh_48 945 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Yes. Emby does serve us... Kind of like the aliens in "To Serve Man." 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCsw 123 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, Gilgamesh_48 said: Yes. Emby does serve us... Kind of like the aliens in "To Serve Man." Seams reasonable this thread is already in The Twilight Zone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Or perhaps one could say: "This thread is coming apart at the seams." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor68 48 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 42 minutes ago, Lambtalk said: Yeah that's just wrong, man... https://emby.media/support/articles/Premiere-Key-Validity.html Ah good to know that's changed, it isn't what we were told back in the day when I bought mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedick 17 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 hours ago, darkassassin07 said: People here really seem to forget software updates are not a part of emby premier. You're not paying for continued development, you're paying for the product as-is. Your payments do support development, but they do not entitle you to it. Luke and the rest of the emby team could walk away yesterday if they chose to. They have no obligation to provide you or anyone else with new versions. I certainly agree a quicker release cycle would be nice to have, and hopefully they will improve that; but at the end of the day, it's their project to do what they like with. If you don't like it, there's other options out there. You're correct, however when someone gives a time frame ("this holiday season") and it doesn't happen, then it would be nice to know what happened that caused it not to happen. Imagine asking a friend or family member to help you with something and they didn't show up, didn't call, didn't text on the agreed date/time... That you wouldn't have tried contacting the other person, asking what happened? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaku 797 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 minutes ago, davedick said: You're correct, however when someone gives a time frame ("this holiday season") and it doesn't happen, then it would be nice to know what happened that caused it not to happen. Imagine asking a friend or family member to help you with something and they didn't show up, didn't call, didn't text on the agreed date/time... That you wouldn't have tried contacting the other person, asking what happened? There's a correlation between the issues raised in the testing area and 4.8 not being released yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedick 17 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, roaku said: There's a correlation between the issues raised in the testing area and 4.8 not being released yet. Someone did mention something about there was some issues (I think live TV was one of those), and didn't like that new features were being added (i.e. updated backup/restore method). While I would agree that not releasing something that isn't bug free is a good idea, but it would also be nice to be given an update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkassassin07 432 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) It's not like the Emby team has been silent since the holidays. There's been responses in this thread and elsewhere; there just isn't much info to give. It's in the final bug testing stages and will be released when those are squashed. Maybe tomorrow, maybe March. Whenever it's ready. I'd imagine the team is avoiding setting further expectations, ie providing an actual date/timeframe, so as to not upset those expectations if they have further unforeseen problems. People seem to get quite upset when arbitrary deadlines aren't met. I'd avoid them too. Personally, I'd rather they take the time to test and push a nice and stable release vs rushing to meet a certain deadline because a team member happened give a vague date to the ravenous public. I can be patient. Edited January 30 by darkassassin07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1561 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 As a matter of interest, does anyone happen to know the ratio of stable to beta server users ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakes82 90 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 16 minutes ago, darkassassin07 said: I'd imagine the team is avoiding setting further expectations, ie providing an actual date/timeframe, so as to not upset those expectations if they have further unforeseen problems. People seem to get quite upset when arbitrary deadlines aren't met. I'd avoid them too. Then they shouldnt provide any details about dates/timelines or say "soon". They should be like plex, and not offer any information related to release schedules. But when you say in December, oh everything is ready to go we just waiting until after xxx because xyz would be on vacation and then days later you start implementing NEW UNTESTED features, that means they had no intention of releasing it. Emby dev set the false pretense of them being able to release and add features because they constantly say oh sure we can do that or soon and then they never accomplish it. Also, if you look at the patch notes you have no idea what to test, when it was implemented or what came before/after it. There is 0 mention of any regression fixes, so if you look at the notes for .76 you don't see "* Fix regressions with live tv playback" that was supposedly fixed in .75. So, was it fixed, why remove it from the notes? Also why are we testing any of these things, the majority of "core" features should be automated and/or have unit testing that block these from even going out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkassassin07 432 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 We have no idea what's gone on behind the scenes. Things get missed, plans change, issues come up. Perhaps there were things they intended to add and didn't get a chance to, or added but realized they couldn't make it stable in a short enough time and axed it till next release. At the very least, they had to take a break from new development to address the big security concern last year. There's also been additional issues to deal with in the stable branch such as the changes to opensubtitles. Yeah, they didn't meet an arbitrary deadline they set; doesn't mean they never had intentions to. Shit happens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor I do agree Embys patch notes, across the board, could definitely use some work. That's been anoyingly uninformative, even just with things like pluggin updates. As far as whether to give any clue to a release schedule; that's very much a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. People won't be happy either way. Finding a balance between the two extremes is easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denz 426 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 I am on stable and happy with it. I just wish devs spend more time on polishing the clients. Emby Theater is good but it still needs a lot of polishing to me it is in beta stage. Guide is one example you would think that would be first thing that should be correct but it has been like that since day one so I am thinking am I the only one using live tv portion of theater. I complained long time ago however as I was using WMC and was only testing theater didn't follow up on it. Only a month ago I moved to Theater and my family is constantly complaining. The only reason I moved from WMC as it doesn't work on the new PC. That is why I think the person promoting emby is going to have a hard time promoting emby since the apps are not polished. I do try to promote but I have to be honest if you are using it 95% for live tv and you have been using WMC you are not going to be entirely satisfied if WMC was working on the new pc I would be back to use it in a heartbeat. Hopefully once 4.8 is released I hope the devs start polishing the apps before adding more things to the core. Once they are polished than start on the core. Hopefully they focus on live tv as there is still a huge potential to get new users from the greenbutton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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