bungee91 98 Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Luke said: Hi, what specific feature are you asking about? How about channel changing that doesn't take 8-10+ seconds to tune (direct play without the ability to pause or seek doesn't count)? I'd sure love that, as would everyone in this thread, and that's me just picking one of the many (many) improvements from the list. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griam01 8 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 I’d love to see a page up and page down in the guide 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayrund 14 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 11 hours ago, Luke said: Hi, what specific feature are you asking about? I think that most of us here have seen the Google Docs spreadsheet of features... and Softworkz was quoted as saying this is a full replacement of everything TV. I currently use a combination of Channels DVR and Xteve to satisfy live tv and DVR needs. I've tried Emby in the past, but it just wasn't as stable or have as many features as the others. I think many of us are hoping that this is the re-write that makes live tv worthwhile on Emby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdclark 4 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Luke said: Can you please be more specific about what feature you feel is missing? Thanks. Back up IPTV recording channels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Very nice. This year would be even nicer... 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 I'm sure people have seen this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) If there's one thing wrong ahead of all others, then it's the assumption that it would be about a certain/single missing feature... Edited August 5, 2023 by softworkz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Austin 62 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) What release was being worked on when this was first announced, 4.3 or 4.4? As a user and someone who bought a lifetime subscription for 'LiveTV' it seems like a release cycle focusing on LiveTV is VERY overdue. Then I re-read the release notes for the last few major releases, and I do not see anything that I would consider worth ignoring/delaying the LiveTV improvements. I am sure others will disagree on individual points, but come on, in 3+ years and multiple major release surely some effort could have been put into this. I stopped asking about improvements for LiveTV, since it looked like it was going to get some attention. Silly me. On a side note I want to commend softworks for not getting frustrated and bailing on the whole project. Seen too many cool projects suffer after a great dev gets tired of being ignored and moves on to a project that makes them feel valued. Edited August 4, 2023 by Dan_Austin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Almost makes you wish Emby was still open source... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayrund 14 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 4 hours ago, softworkz said: If there's one thing wrong ahead of all others, then it's the assumption that it would be about a certain/single missing feature... I believe my assumption, and the assumption of others was that it was a re-write. Luke was asking about a single feature and we aren't waiting for a single feature, we are waiting on the re-write you've spoken of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, hayrund said: I believe my assumption, and the assumption of others was that it was a re-write. Luke was asking about a single feature and we aren't waiting for a single feature, we are waiting on the re-write you've spoken of. I don't like saying "rewrite", because that sounds a bit like developing the same again in a (possibly) better way - but it's very different and bigger in all aspects that and essentially by far more adding than replacing. Emby's excellence is in organizing media and being able to play back everything everywhere. Its universal capability of doing media playback applies to TV streams as well: Emby can play them everywhere just like all other media. And that's what the current Live TV feature is built upon. It is tiny and simplistic and for some users that's sufficient yet for most it isn't. The "universal playback" method allows successful playback in some way but it involves a bunch of drawbacks (those that you are all noticing, experiencing or even suffering from ). That's a typical and general issue with "universal" solutions: they cover a broad range but they often cannot achieve perfect handling for specific cases. TVnext is build from scratch and designed from the ground up for handling TV signals perfectly - and only TV signals. For everything else, we already have a great implementation, so TVnext can focus on live TV (it's just different handling under the hood, invisible to users). The same idea applies to all other parts: doing it in the best possible way - as if you would start from zero - but then still integrating everything seamlessly. Edited August 5, 2023 by softworkz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 All of which is great (and it is great), but, as you of course know, not much good if we can't get near it... Yours sincerely, Mr I M A B.Rocken--Record. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayrund 14 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 41 minutes ago, softworkz said: I don't like saying "rewrite", because that sounds a bit like developing the same again in a (possibly) better way - but it's very different and bigger in all aspects that and essentially by far more adding than replacing. Emby's excellence is in organizing media and being able to play back everything everywhere. It's universal capability of doing media playback applies to TV streams as well: Emby can play them everywhere just like all other media. And that's what the current Live TV feature is built upon. It is tiny and simplistic and for some users that's sufficient yet for most it isn't. The "universal playback" method allows successful playback in some way but it involves a bunch of drawback (those that you are all noticing, experiencing or even suffering from ). That's a typical and general issue with "universal" solutions: they cover a broad range but they often cannot achieve perfect handling for specific cases. TVnext if build from scratch and designed from the ground up for handling TV signals perfectly - and only TV signals. For everything else, we already have a great implementation, so TVnext can focus on live TV (it's just different handling under the hood, invisible to users). The same idea applies to all other parts: doing it in the best possible way - as if you would start from zero - but then still integrating everything seamlessly. That's great and sounds amazing. I think that has been the ask of this entire thread... when can we expect this amazing work that you've done to get integrated in to beta builds or at least some general idea of a timeline? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceboy 2493 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 10 hours ago, hayrund said: That's great and sounds amazing. I think that has been the ask of this entire thread... when can we expect this amazing work that you've done to get integrated in to beta builds or at least some general idea of a timeline? softworkz said elsewhere it would likely be a v5 feature. not any time soon given the current stable was released in May 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungee91 98 Posted August 5, 2023 Author Share Posted August 5, 2023 On 8/3/2023 at 11:10 PM, Luke said: Hi, what specific feature are you asking about? 17 hours ago, softworkz said: If there's one thing wrong ahead of all others, then it's the assumption that it would be about a certain/single missing feature... Had to..... Seriously though, it is clear by many (many) users that attention in the form of a released product to improve upon LiveTv is sorely overdue and extremely disappointing knowing that a lot of talented dev effort has happened with nothing to show for it (minus the teasers which I do love BTW, yet they sadden me). Starting this thread 8 months ago was at a point where it seemed ridiculous to not see some of these great improvements come to light even if in a Beta channel. Yet we still have zero idea or hope we will see it in another 8 months. I don't say it to be mean, I say it due to being disappointed. It is the single most wanted feature by many users here, and yet there is no update, no plan, no anything other than Luke asking a stupid question (sorry) when he knows damn well what we're asking for..... (end rant) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillmacca01 149 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 All I'm worried about is, that by the time it gets released (especially if waiting for v5), other software would have already implemented some of the features and it will be out of date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageus 67 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 On 04/08/2023 at 05:10, Luke said: Hi, what specific feature are you asking about? By the time any of the features hinted at are available, then terrestrial TV probably won't even be a thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Spaceboy said: softworkz said elsewhere it would likely be a v5 feature. not any time soon given the current stable was released in May 2022 I didn't mean it like that. What I meant is that whichever version would include it, should be numbered 5.x Also, there's no fixed sequence. The next one will be 4.8, but that doesn't mean that it will be followed by 4.9. And if it would be a 4.9, there's again no rule that the following would be a 5.0. It could also be a 4.10... Edited August 6, 2023 by softworkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Trying to get any kind of eta out of (certain members) of Emby is like trying to get blood out of a stone which you can't even find because it was all mixed up and used to repair the great wall of China. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 4 hours ago, gillmacca01 said: All I'm worried about is, that by the time it gets released (especially if waiting for v5), other software would have already implemented some of the features and it will be out of date Some features - maybe. But I'm not that much afraid of it being paralleled any soon - yet, you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 I'm really tempted to just start a new thread every week about this, but not much point I guess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, arrbee99 said: Trying to get any kind of eta out of (certain members) of Emby is like trying to get blood out of a stone which you can't even find because it was all mixed up and used to repair the great wall of China. I can't tell because I don't know. All I can say is that it is ready to go into public beta. It doesn't need to be included in "the" Emby betas - initially. There's a separate (Windows-only) installation which can be installed in parallel to normal Emby server installations (stable/beta). It even uses different ports by default (7096). Development had been accompanied by a private group of about 20 selected testers, where we made sure to have a good mix of reception types (ATSC, DVB-C/T/S and IPTV). At the end, only 30% were providing regular feedback so there was roughly a single tester for each reception type. This was all fine to get to a certain point, but for going on, a broader range of testing is required. It was suggested to (kind of) double up the amount of testers, which I had declined as being insufficient. Without a proper coverage in testing, it is pointless to work on, because at some time, you'll have to put it into public beta, and then you'd have to do the same kind of work again, to handle all the cases that you hadn't seen before. That means it makes much more sense to put it out as public (or semi-public, like subscribe-to-be-part-of-it) beta right away. This is what's pending and what hasn't happened yet. For the software side, there exists an installable setup of the Windows server with TVnext (based on 4.8.0.39). Edited August 5, 2023 by softworkz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayrund 14 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 That sounds 4 minutes ago, softworkz said: I can't tell because I don't know. All I can say is that it is ready to go into public beta. It doesn't need to be included in "the" Emby betas - initially. There's a separate (Windows-only) installation which can be installed in parallel to normal Emby server installations (stable/beta). It even uses different ports by default (7096). Development had been accompanied by a private group of about 20 selected testers, where we made sure to have a good mix of reception types (ATSC, DVB-C/T/S and IPTV). At the end, only 30% were providing regular feedback so there was roughly a single tester for each reception type. This was all fine to get to a certain point, but for going on, a broader range of testing is required. It was suggested to (kind of) double up the amount of testers, which I had declined as being insufficient. Without a proper coverage in testing, it is pointless to work on, because at some time, you'll have to put it into public beta, and then you'd have to do the same kind of work again, to handle all the cases that you hadn't seen before. That means it makes much more sense to put it out as public (or semi-public, like subscribe-to-be-part-of-it) beta right away. This is what's pending and what hasn't happened yet. For the software side, there exists an installable setup of the Windows server with TVnext (based on 4.8.0.39). That sounds pretty great. Is there a Linux and/or Docker version available or planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3335 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, hayrund said: That sounds pretty great. Is there a Linux and/or Docker version available or planned? This solely depends on the decisions that will be taken. If it would be included in the regular betas right away, then it will be for all targets like usual (or otherwise: as soon as it would be included) The separate setup is for Windows only - and only for testing (and this won't change - the creation of Linux builds is a huge and complex process which cannot be duplicated easily) Edited August 5, 2023 by softworkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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