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To complain about lacking TVnext progress


bungee91

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bungee91

As the title says, @softworkz teased all of us in another thread for me to post this.

The number one improvement I check on this forum hoping there are updates to, sadly not so much. 🥲

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arrbee99

Good luck. I shall continue to drone on about it in a desperate show of support...

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bungee91

Appreciate the response Luke. I'm sure there are many variables, but do feel that certain configurations/setup should get priority if the amount of variables are leading to this being held up further than reasonable (platforms, apps, tuners, etc.).

I know you don't want to (nor will you be held to it) but would you humor us in saying that you feel this will be available in a limited closed beta, or just beta server/app in:

  1. 0 - 6 months
  2. 6 - 12 months
  3. 1+ year

I think that would be very helpful in setting some expectation here. As opposed to many people checking for updates to find out things very unrelated to this initiative being worked on and implemented (I'm sure people want those too, but...). Thanks

 

Edited by bungee91
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Spaceboy

just to add to what was said in the other thread - i would gladly pay for an upgrade/additional licence to cover tvnext. i'm not sure that all of the dev's appreciate how much of a gamechanger this would be

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bungee91
17 minutes ago, lightsout said:

I am ignorant, what is TVNext?

The better question is, what isn't it? 😜🤯 Link courtesy of @softworkz https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTtWQwRLBTPp5TNh8KmtSH3Rvz9Zm6ovUL__YL9Ax1ikzGLCzdfhryjMJ6-g5N1rJIf5LrDGjE5jqds/pubhtml?gid=1930489182&single=true

Hope that helps, and gets others who were unaware of some things to come. 🍿

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emveepee
3 hours ago, Spaceboy said:

just to add to what was said in the other thread - i would gladly pay for an upgrade/additional licence to cover tvnext. i'm not sure that all of the dev's appreciate how much of a gamechanger this would be

Pirate IPTV was the gamechanger.  The number of users buying  dedicated tuner h/w is shrinking drastically.  Emby's big mistake was not supporting SAT>IP years ago since with it and the SiliconDust HDHR device covers a lot of current and new user requirements in most of the world.   You'd have to exclude IPTV and HDHR from a new higher cost model since it would probably drive users to Jellyfin.  

At the end of the day there how many new users would BDA support really bring?  Maybe a few more WMC converts.  Not sure where TV Next stands on Linux but converting TVHeadend users to a pay model would be tough and the support for the crappy Linux drivers may not be that cost effective.

Martin

Edited by emveepee
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arrbee99

Or put another way, it was (is ?) something that was started being worked on, far as I know, about May 2020 and according to @Luke 'We are looking at how best to integrate it' a mere two and half years later.

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10 minutes ago, emveepee said:

At the end of the day there how many new users would BDA support really bring?

Your view seems focused on the US. The situation is very different at other places in the world (e.g. Europe).

10 minutes ago, emveepee said:

Maybe a few more WMC converts.

I think all the many people that aren't using Emby due to the lack of native tuner support.

10 minutes ago, emveepee said:

Not sure where TV Next stands on Linux

Full support. Even across machines in a LAN (e.g. Emby/TVnext on Windows or on Linux, tuners installed on a different machine). The remote tuner agent also runs on a number of SAT receivers (even one with MIPS architecture...)

10 minutes ago, emveepee said:

the support for the crappy Linux drivers

DVB driver support on Linux is quite good. Haven't seen any problems in testing. The sat receivers (also Linux) with their custom drivers were challenging, though.

Edited by softworkz
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The goal was - and as far as I'm concerned - still is: to deliver the best TV application on the planet. Everything that has been done has been done aiming for that goal. 

The state of the project is still unchanged: private testing (with a small number of people) is completed. The next step is to test with a somewhat larger amount of users. 

Only @Luke or @ebr are able to explain the reason for the holdup.

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emveepee

I am assuming BDA support would be for all Windows users not just Americans (I am Canadian BTW), I didn't know you were supporting non BDA h/w tuners on Windows

I am actually commenting more about DVB users, since I get my feedback from TVHeadend on LibreElec with comments like this https://forum.libreelec.tv/thread/26410-le10-3-tvheadend-hd-not-working/?postID=175411#post175411  and without fail their main developers direct people to SAT>IP   I am concerned about all the support issues you will have with RTL2832 which will probably by the main devices users will try but there are a lot of bad ones.

I do find the Linux Hauppauge ATSC kernel drivers are pretty reliable, but most of the other manufacturer are not that reliable  The number of Emby users willing to recompile a kernel to get their tuner working is going to be very low.

As I posted before I think this will be great, just not a game changer.  I hope I am wrong.

Martin

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20 minutes ago, emveepee said:

I am concerned about all the support issues you will have with RTL2832 which will probably by the main devices users will try but there are a lot of bad ones.

That's the cheapest receiver devices that exist. There has been one positive report of that device and no negative ones. I can't comment on what TvHeadend does.
We have an extremely solid low-level backend for interfacing with tuners. The Linux executable is independent of distributions, i.e. the same runs everywhere.
When a tuner is working with any other Linux application, I'm confident that it will work with ours. If it doesn't, then it's none of our business. We won't get into low-level development when a user has a non-working tuner. When it doesn't work then it doesn't work. That's why I'm really not concerned about that.

38 minutes ago, emveepee said:

As I posted before I think this will be great, just not a game changer.  I hope I am wrong.

It's a fundamentally different from what Emby currently has in every single detail and those are not limited to hw tuner reception. It addresses almost every TV feature request that has been made in the past years. For Emby it's surely a game changer. Beyond that, we'll have to see...

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emveepee

The NextPVR tuner exe was written that way too, distributed with it's own libdvbv5.so  I don't know which library you use but I can tell you I can crash many distros interdependently from the app using stock dvbv5-scan and zap because the library has problems as do many drivers.  I've sent in one PR because of a kernel driver bug that will crash ATSC.  The LibreElec folks speak from years of experience trying to support the kernel drivers.  Sometimes dvbv5-zap will just hang.  This is more a heads up when your user based expands.

Emby Live TV does need a stability boost so from that perspective, yes it will be a game changer for your users.

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38 minutes ago, emveepee said:

with it's own libdvbv5.so

Ah, now we're getting to the point what makes you say it's buggy...

39 minutes ago, emveepee said:

I don't know which library you use

None. The DVB API directly.

You may try and compare it when available. 

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Spaceboy
12 hours ago, emveepee said:

Pirate IPTV was the gamechanger.  The number of users buying  dedicated tuner h/w is shrinking drastically.  Emby's big mistake was not supporting SAT>IP years ago since with it and the SiliconDust HDHR device covers a lot of current and new user requirements in most of the world.   You'd have to exclude IPTV and HDHR from a new higher cost model since it would probably drive users to Jellyfin.  

At the end of the day there how many new users would BDA support really bring?  Maybe a few more WMC converts.  Not sure where TV Next stands on Linux but converting TVHeadend users to a pay model would be tough and the support for the crappy Linux drivers may not be that cost effective.

Martin

not really, even if you are just a iptv user tvnext has some incredible benefits in terms of layering/combining subscriptions, stream start up time, eliminating numerous pieces of intermediate software (xteve and iptvboss are both required to get my iptv sub into emby) and probably many more that i've forgotten since i tested it.

iptv is great but if you want reliability you need OTA, iptv doesnt even come close. i agree with softworkz, local tv servers are still commonly used in Europe where we have free to air OTA tv.

and i should remind you that nextpvr doesnt even support my tv card https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?tid=63931&pid=572447#pid572447 , tv next did :)

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softworkz, how does TVnext integrate tuners like Fritzbox's DVB-C tuner of Selfsat network tuner (e.g. Selfsat IP21)?

Would I still need something like TVheadend or would Emby do all the handling?

Additionally, will it also support communication with OScam for those that share their subscription within their home?

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I will ask this again:  Are these improvements just limited to the tuner management at this point and not the actual DVR part as the spreadsheet says?

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2 minutes ago, cncb said:

I will ask this again:  Are these improvements just limited to the tuner management at this point and not the actual DVR part as the spreadsheet says?

It's a full replacement for everything related to TV.

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4 hours ago, neik said:

softworkz, how does TVnext integrate tuners like Fritzbox's DVB-C tuner of Selfsat network tuner (e.g. Selfsat IP21)?

Would I still need something like TVheadend or would Emby do all the handling?

SAT>IP is not yet supported, but it's planned.

4 hours ago, neik said:

Would I still need something like TVheadend or would Emby do all the handling?

Emby does everything on its own. There's no more need for 3rd party products, but it will still be possible to integrate those via tuner provider plugins.

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22 minutes ago, softworkz said:

It's a full replacement for everything related to TV.

So, we are waiting for the UI to be updated in all the clients to handle the new DVR features?

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