CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, rbjtech said: I'll be doing the experiments today and documenting for a wiki/kb article. Last night, I had 1 x 90 Mbit/sec 4K stream running and 5 x 30 Mbit/sec 1080p streams running (then ran out of clients), and the 1gig pipe was at ~250 Mbit/sec - so a quarter of it's capacity. Zero issues playing on all clients ... I'm going to then mirror without using Direct Attached Storage (ie use a NAS as Storage Only) and see if I get identical results. Im really looking forward to the results of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, CHA0SENG7NE said: May I ask how you have created the network map picture? This is all part of Ubiquiti managed software - it's automatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Does anyone know if you can attach directly to a qnap? If so is the data sent to the network via one of the other ports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, rbjtech said: This is all part of Ubiquiti managed software - it's automatic Thanks They use this brand at work, im guessing its pretty darn good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdatanet 1549 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, CHA0SENG7NE said: Does anyone know if you can attach directly to a qnap? If so is the data sent to the network via one of the other ports? What's your NAS model? You can do something like this and convert your NAS to DAS (depending on your NAS model) https://www.amazon.co.uk/QNAP-QNA-T310G1T-Thunderbolt3-NBASE-T-Adapter/dp/B07KY9Z4BD/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=qnap+QNA-&linkCode=sl2&linkId=60a0fff68b42698eea1cdfdaf52a798a&qid=1601110239&sr=8-3&tag=topreccom-21 Edited September 26, 2020 by vdatanet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, vdatanet said: What's your NAS model? You can do something like this and convert your NAS to DAS (depending on your NAS model) https://www.amazon.co.uk/QNAP-QNA-T310G1T-Thunderbolt3-NBASE-T-Adapter/dp/B07KY9Z4BD/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=qnap+QNA-&linkCode=sl2&linkId=60a0fff68b42698eea1cdfdaf52a798a&qid=1601110239&sr=8-3&tag=topreccom-21 QNAP TS-653A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdatanet 1549 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, CHA0SENG7NE said: QNAP TS-653A As far as I know, there's no thunderbold adapter for that model, but I'm not an expert. Someone with more QNAP knowledge should confirm it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I don't believe there is anything wrong with your NAS - but the experiment should prove if there are any bottlenecks on the two storage methods. It'll be a couple of hours - as I need to setup a 2nd instance of emby using my 'backup-NAS' as the storage which is just another Windows 10 Pro host using SMB3 shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, rbjtech said: I don't believe there is anything wrong with your NAS - but the experiment should prove if there are any bottlenecks on the two storage methods. It'll be a couple of hours - as I need to setup a 2nd instance of emby using my 'backup-NAS' as the storage which is just another Windows 10 Pro host using SMB3 shares. Thanks good luck and appreciate the efforts to prove this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 .. so quick update - 2nd (backup) instance now running on the same Windows server - All libraries now pointing to SMB shares on another windows server. It's running on different Ports, so I can run both together if required. I forgot that this other storage server is on a different VLAN, so everything is going via my firewall also at the moment - so I'm going to have to do 3 sets of identical tests. 1. Direct Attached Storage 2. SMB Storage via different VLAN 3. SMB Storage via same VLAN I'll explain why in the full output.. I've just included Films, but it's still taking a while to scan the 1363 items but it's doing it pretty quickly ... as soon as that's complete, I can start the testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA0SENG7NE 28 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 So my setup is similar to test 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 31 minutes ago, CHA0SENG7NE said: So my setup is similar to test 3? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) So that didn't go to plan at all ! On the first batch of testing (test 3) using a NAS (via 1 gig), I experienced exactly the same issues as you when viewing a 4K (65 Mbit) file ... The file will play just fine if I opt to use an External Player (VLC etc) AND setup direct file access - effectively bypassing emby server altogether. Next I wanted to know why and where the SMB > HTTP conversion was failing. Using the jellyfish test files I've used before (fixed bitrate), it appears to break at 55 Mbit/sec (h264) and 50 Mbit/sec (hevc). A the point of the 'failure/stall' - neither the network, remote disk I/O, or CPU are anywhere near their limits. All I can say is the 'conversion' from SMB to HTTP is bottlenecking anything beyond 50 Mbit/sec - this may be the TCP stack on Windows having to read and write at the same time (but is not the network itself..), or it may be the Emby code has an issue/limitation. I'm going to try test 2 - where the storage is on a different VLAN to the clients to see if that makes any difference, but as they use the same Windows TCP stack - I don;t think it will. As I have the test all planned, I'm also going to proceed with test 1 - which is the DAS - as last evening, this was still having zero issues with 5 high bandwidth HTTP streams @ 270 Mbit/sec (total) according to the network interface... Edited September 26, 2020 by rbjtech 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdatanet 1549 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 From my previous setup (PC + NAS) I came to the conclusion that SMB sucks when moving large amounts of data over the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, vdatanet said: From my previous setup (PC + NAS) I came to the conclusion that SMB sucks when moving large amounts of data over the network. I don't think it's SMB - I can utilise the full 1 Gig connection all day long with a file copy over SMB from a 'NAS' or 'Windows Server' @ @115 Mbytes/sec to my PC. I think it's the conversion to HTTP so it can be 'streamed' to the devices that is the issue here. DAS > HTTP doesn't appear to have this problem - as I've just completed a test where I hit 400 Mbit/sec streaming to 10 clients - 9 @ 30 Mbit/sec (1080p) and 1 @ 65 Mbit/sec (4K). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Is there a way to 'mount' the storage on the QNAP (via NFS?) so it is seen as 'local' storage on the Windows PC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdatanet 1549 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, rbjtech said: Is there a way to 'mount' the storage on the QNAP (via NFS?) so it is seen as 'local' storage on the Windows PC ? Long ago I did something like this: https://graspingtech.com/mount-nfs-share-windows-10/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, vdatanet said: Long ago I did something like this: https://graspingtech.com/mount-nfs-share-windows-10/ Did this improve the NAS performance vs SMB ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdatanet 1549 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, rbjtech said: Did this improve the NAS performance vs SMB ? Two years ago, I remember a brief but not spectacular improvement. In the end I decided to build my new server with built-in storage. Sounds like a good solution to me, but what happens when I need more storage? Sooner or later I will have to find some solution to expand my storage capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4257 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I'm going to repeat the '10 client' test tomorrow from the NAS/SMB storage (without the 4K Client) - if it still all holds up - then we can categorically say the issue is to do with any single stream with a bitrate of 50 Mbit/sec or higher - less than this, or multiples of less than this - are not a problem via SMB.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooty234 266 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 It must be related to the NAS, because I don't have any issues. My shield plays well, whether wireless or wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Kind of exactly what I would expect. LATENCY and buffering is killing you not overall bandwidth available. If you have two NICs in the server try binding one to the NAS network and the other for Emby to send to clients and see what happens. (Spin off a new network for a client). Typically these need to be 2 physical NICs not virtual or done through network virtual methods like a VLAN. The latency of sending packets over each NIC will decrease and you'll be able to stream those larger jellyfin files I bet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooty234 266 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Is it possible that using jumbo packets might help? I always enable jumbo packets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, sooty234 said: Is it possible that using jumbo packets might help? I always enable jumbo packets. Every network is different but I've found it worse for media streaming in my environment using gig adapters and switches. Now if you have two NICs then using jumbo on the NAS/Storage side may up performance. One of those things you just need to test to see how well the software/drivers and Switches perform together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooty234 266 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Probably worth a shot, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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