maximus1 2 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 @ luke would be nice if you guys make the "... request...." popups allways klickable with MS remote. very often i get these popups and can not use my remote to remove them because the focus is somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Man there are some ungreatful idiots on these boards, sadly most of them probably have not been around since the beginning like others of us had. Some of us have seen all the hard work you guys did in the MB days. Even back then I chose to be a supporter because bar none I knew you guys were making a product that fit my needs and use and the way it has evolved has been amazing. I've gone from having 50 or so movies to flip through in MB to basically becoming my own Netflix and TV Headend for my family and friends. Personally I say keep up the good work guys!! As other's here have stated with the money you've invested in buidling a PC/Server to be able to handle running Emby, and you're now complaining about 99bux then you obivoulsy have you head up your ass. I will say this. if you nitwits think 99bux is bad, you better hope that the dev's never get venture capital investors........ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits 12 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Emby for WMC, the older Emby Theatre, and Kodi all support external players I believe. Also Media Portal, but I have't tried that before. I don't see how it has changed at all, apart from growing bigger and including more clients. You still have the same free server and same free clients that have existed for years. I don't understand what you can't do now for free that you haven't done for years. This was more to the point of being told there are many other free clients available. I will try and be more clear... What "Emby" client besides "Theater" is available for "Windows 10" that can be used with a "remote control" and has an "external player"? Emby for WMC is not supported by Windows 10 Kodi is not Emby Media Portal is not Emby Old Theater is it but now no longer supported. I was just trying to point out some people still actually use Theater as a HTPC setup. I can see why some people got upset at having to pay because it is the only client that they would use for their specific application. Since this question didn't get answered, I'll ask it again. Does Madshi and Nevcairiel get paid when you include their free software to create your new Theater? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzener 729 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Luke has stated major bugs will be fixed in the old Emby Theater, their for, it is still supported. Edited January 26, 2016 by Xzener 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37094 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 This was more to the point of being told there are many other free clients available. I will try and be more clear... What "Emby" client besides "Theater" is available for "Windows 10" that can be used with a "remote control" and has an "external player"? Emby for WMC is not supported by Windows 10 Kodi is not Emby Media Portal is not Emby Old Theater is it but now no longer supported. I was just trying to point out some people still actually use Theater as a HTPC setup. I can see why some people got upset at having to pay because it is the only client that they would use for their specific application. Since this question didn't get answered, I'll ask it again. Does Madshi and Nevcairiel get paid when you include their free software to create your new Theater? There is actually a project that will allow Windows Media Center to run on Windows 10 so you could check that out. We also have a community project built by anks that allows the web client to use external players, and that's pretty popular too. You can find that here in the forums. As you pointed out there is also the Emby for Kodi add-on. And there is the previous version of this app which we will support and provide fixes for major breaking issues. So with four free options, I think that's pretty good. To answer your other question I would take a look at madvr's home page because it lists other apps that are also paid or have paid components: http://madvr.com/ But madvr is not the focus of this app. It's a benefit for some of our windows users, but if necessary we'd have no problem removing it and asking the user to install it themselves manually. That would be perfectly fine. The focus of this app is almost 100% on having a smooth user experience. And - a plugin and theme architecture that will outclass anything else in terms of how easy it will be to build add-ons. That is the part that you guys don't know about yet. We haven't really discussed the technology and I can almost guarantee it's going to really surprise you. Hint - it's something that probably everyone here has worked with and dabbled with at some point or another, so yes, get excited about. I'll have those details up on the blog any day now and I think you guys will see how ambitious it is, and that we really did pour an entire year of our time into this. It's a pace we cannot sustain or afford just giving the app away, and with your support we'll be able to give you something incredible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37094 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Luke has stated major bugs will be fixed in the old Emby Theater, their for, it is still supported. Yes this is correct. If you prefer the old app and want to stay with it, then we'll support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1114 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 The focus of this app is almost 100% on having a smooth user experience. And - a plugin and theme architecture that will outclass anything else in terms of how easy it will be to build add-ons. That is the part that you guys don't know about yet. We haven't really discussed the technology and I can almost guarantee it's going to really surprise you. Hint - it's something that probably everyone here has worked with and dabbled with at some point or another, so yes, get excited about. Hmmm...could it be HTML? I sure hope so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37094 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I will let you all take your wild guesses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM 13 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Your statement that hurts the most though, is where you play the sympathy card, having a "hard time putting food on the table $40/year extra is a big deal'. Did you ever stop to think that $40/year is a big deal to the developers too? and probably the reason why they had to go down this road? I didn't "play the sympathy card", nice ad hominem there. Just a statement of fact. Nor did I say the devs do not deserve to make a living. Nor do I object to the freemium business model. In fact Plex costs the same, and I have paid it in the past. Being in business in hard. Sometimes the business model doesn't work, or the market isn't there, or a particular product/service is devalued. I once shut down a business for those very reasons. What I didn't do is let people waste time trying out my service when I had planned to change things all along. Hell, I even told my last clients that I would be shutting down, so they knew what to expect! For months the devs teased the new version of the player on this very forum, never once hinting that any part of it would not be free. That's a bait-and-switch to me. I would not have tested, then moved to, Emby had I known the Windows desktop client would become paid instead of free. If that was announced anywhere, feel free to link. I get it, you disagreed with me. Didn't make much of a substantial rebuttal, though, but nice try on the attempted personal attack. Edited January 26, 2016 by PJM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 ...In fact Plex costs the same, and I have paid it in the past... ...For months the devs teased the new version of the player on this very forum, never once hinting that any part of it would not be free... Two points: Plex is 50% more, not the same price. The desktop app did not become a paid app. The app that was available all those months is still there, still supported, and still free. There are also several other desktop options that are free as has been noted previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef 3746 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I was at home doing this lol. Is that what you really look like Red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshirt 1487 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Nope. That guys got way more hair lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor68 48 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Been here since MB2 so awhile. Apparently I was already a Premium user and had been for many years, with no real idea if it was ever going to expire, but didn't want to take the chance so bought a lifetime license yesterday I was so excited about Theatre finally being released. To be clear I STILL consider that a cheap investment, especially given the work going into fixing sync for windows right now. I also work in IT, and having delivered many projects, a few even ontime and as advertised to the client, I quite simply despair about projects documenting things clearly. it just gets missed in the rush I guess. I have had about 2 hours to calm down after totally misinterpreting this release. Without any clear info that it was not feature complete I had simply assumed that all the talk about Live TV included a guide. I mean seriously, who the hell would even use Live TV without one? how would you? I have now had time to browse the website, blog, wiki, and forums trying to piece together where this project might actually be at right now, and it is still not clear to me. For my mind hell yeah, sell your stuff guys, you worked hard, always have, and I trust that you always will, BUT you need to be upfront about what your selling. the website should include "Feature Incomplete" or "WIP" perhaps, and their should be at least a Developer Sticky with info on whats complete, and a timeline on other features being added. The forum is a quick dirty way to get the info out there quickly, but realistically this should have been blogged, and Theatre does not even appear to exist on the wiki? Anyhow, I know that you need more forum help, as the more time you spend here, the less time that you are developing, so maybe just start one sticky that you can quickly update as info comes to hand. That's it for me, the work so far looks damned good, and I am more than happy to contribute, as long as I'm also informed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psmc 8 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 i'm another just dropping by to say ...i'm out. @@Luke Sorry to say I can't recommend this to anyone either. Now, while the pricing model looks shockingly out of touch from here, reading the snotty replies from deathsquirrel on here, speaking on your behalf or at least appearing to as you never pulled them up have completely disgusted me. Unprofessional, discourteous, rude a few words that come to mind.Also, I really think you should take note of a post on here on page 5 by @@dimitrik who put it more succinctly than ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf359 6 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I have moved from Emby for the time being and not because of the cash and over to plex. Emby will always be the one I will come back to when its sorted the player out. Plexes player is outstanding as is the remote control functions also the way it sorts out playing outside of your Lan automatically. Emby is way prettier and is excellent at sorting your metadata and renaming tv shows with minimal input. When Emby has a player etc as smooth as plexes I will be straight back. Hope to be back soon and paying the £100 or whatever. Good luck with the progress i will keep checking in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor68 48 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I actually just counted the premium features, out of nine, all I use is rotten tomatoes. Still, I have faith that Theatre and Sync will work eventually, so I'm still all in. :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhitmore 781 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) I actually just counted the premium features, out of nine, all I use is rotten tomatoes. Still, I have faith that Theatre and Sync will work eventually, so I'm still all in. :-) Sync is looking good for me. Testing right now and it's transferring! Since we are going in circles now, I might discuss with the others about closing this thread. It now just seems to be people continuing to complain and not understanding (or wanting to understand) how a project like this needs to be funded, then people defending it (sometimes quite vigorously). If you still have issues, please re-read what we have said here. There is a good reason why the premium pricing model needs to exist, and it's not to try and rob you. I won't continue to list the reasons, since I, and many others have already included them, but please know that the devs in this community need as much support as it can get from everyone, this includes financially, and in other ways. After all of this, if you're still unhappy, please PM me and I'd be more then happy to talk to you about your grievances. Just please don't leave rude messages here for the sake of flaming. That's not what this forum is for. Edited January 27, 2016 by swhitmore 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefirstofthe300 291 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) i'm another just dropping by to say ...i'm out. @@Luke Sorry to say I can't recommend this to anyone either. Now, while the pricing model looks shockingly out of touch from here, reading the snotty replies from deathsquirrel on here, speaking on your behalf or at least appearing to as you never pulled them up have completely disgusted me. Unprofessional, discourteous, rude a few words that come to mind.Also, I really think you should take note of a post on here on page 5 by @@dimitrik who put it more succinctly than ever could.Please realize that most of the posts in this forum are not from devs and this forum probably generates a couple hundred new posts ever day from community members like yourself. In addition, this is a support and discussion forum. It is one-hundred percent possible that some of the posts on this forum have been rude even if I personally did not think so; however, apart from the blog and announcements section, it would be impossible for the devs to moderate every single post that appears to speak for them as every post on their forum could be construed to do so. Consequently, I go by the rule that unless Luke, ebr, or one of the other people that I am one-hundred percent sure is a dev creates a post, that post is a community member's opinion and does not reflect on Luke or any other dev. I am not trying to excuse any wrongful behavior. I am just trying to point out that having the devs fix every error or take down any post that could be considered rude is simply impractical on a forum this size when the dev team is as small as it is (maybe two core devs with around fifteen active volunteers, although as I have already stated, that is my opinion based on posts I have seen made). Just a few short words about the pricing model. Plex's pricing model is more than Emby's is at the moment, and I would argue that you get more far more value out of Emby. Also, imagine if a company like Microsoft tried to sell a server like Emby. I would imagine it would be a minimum of $20 a month or a license for $200 that would last at most a couple of years before a "major" version change that requires a new license. I understand that people have been having issues with bugs but I have run across some pretty glaring issues with Microsoft products as well. And those issues have been in the software for a couple of years now. I have no place to report them and I doubt that Microsoft would even respond. At least Emby's devs listen to my bug reports and try to fix them. I haven't posted much recently because I have found the server and clients to be fairly stable for me. I guess I am lucky that way. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Edited January 27, 2016 by thefirstofthe300 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefirstofthe300 291 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Well said swhitmore. I agree it is probably time to close the thread as every thing just seems to be getting rehashed. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0dyr0ck2006 57 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) If you close the thread another will be made, it's a pointless action and you need to give your customers the opportunity to voice their opinion, even if you don't agree. Yes some of the posts have perhaps been a little flared but does that not show you the passion people have for the software that has been written? I would agree that maybe some people haven't fully understand what some have said but I would also argue that Luke and other haven't truly taken on board what their customers have said either. Bottom line, the web page for theatre needs to be completely rewritten and clear and concise. The new beta shouldn't have been made public yet, yes let the paying members try it but don't make it the live version until it passes beta stage. With this in mind, don't forget the previous theatre never left beta stage and ultimately bugs were left as 'the team are rewriting, from the ground up, a new theatre'. I'll just leave this here.....: https://www.linux.com/news/software/multimedia/856128-exclusive-interview-emby-founder-luke-pulverenti Edited January 27, 2016 by b0dyr0ck2006 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhitmore 781 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 If you close the thread another will be made, it's a pointless action and you need to give your customers the opportunity to voice their opinion, even if you don't agree. The point I made was that people have already voiced their opinion and were given many valid responses. Since some people didn't like the response, they continue to post the same arguments, only to have the same responses again. Hence we are going in circles. If Luke wants to change the wording on the website, then sure, it might be a good idea. But it's been brought up already, and doing so again by the same people, isn't helping. The fact is, the complaints are coming from people not contributing to the project at all, either financially, or by supporting people on the forums. I don't see how they are "customers" at all. Sure, we are happy to listen to them if they have issues, and help in any way we can to make this community stronger, but continuing to indulge them because they are not happy about they replies is something we don't have to do. I'll just leave this here.....: https://www.linux.com/news/software/multimedia/856128-exclusive-interview-emby-founder-luke-pulverenti I honestly don't see your point with that link... I've read it a few times and it makes perfect sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhitmore 781 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Ok, I'm locking this thread for the reasons stated earlier, but the mods will continue discussing this issue and may re-open it again.When I get a moment, I'll update this post with a quick summary of what was discussed here. If you have any more issues, please feel free to PM me. I'm honesty more than happy to discuss it with you further should you wish, but we are just going in circles here. I'll also be in chat for a little while if anyone would like to talk.Any further posts on this topic will be removed for now.Edit:Just so people have a clear understanding, and for a bit of closure, I've compiled a short summary of what was said in this thread.When the new Emby Theatre Beta was released, it wasn't made obvious that this was to be a premium only client. People were clearly upset that this long awaited rewrite would be for paying supporters only. Some user feel that open source software should also be free to use, and unfortunately do not understand why a project of this size needs to be funded. The handling of the release, and the shock to the members wishing to use the software for free, started a debate that became a little passionate at times.Just so everyone is aware, this is a very vocal minority that feel this way, which is not always clear in these type of threads. This is not to suggest that these users won't be listened to, and Luke has apologised for the way the beta was announced and has updated release info since. He has also kindly offered to make the existing version of Emby Theatre free and with major bugs addressed.For those who may not have realised, in the past few years this project has become so large that it required a few full-time devs working on it. This is their day-to-day job, and requires funding. The pricing model exists so that users can still operate a complete media server solution for free. The premium only features are then placed on the 'nice to have' features, including sync, coverart, backups, etc. To be honest, I believe most people pay the premium just to support the project though. This helps pay for the massive amount of features that users get for free.I've included a quote from Luke that explains why the new Emby Theatre needed to include a premium requirement: Yes you can count on the old version remaining free forever. I am sorry about the new version not being free but we spent literally the entire calendar year working on it. It was truly a massive effort and one that is just too costly to make completely free. As far as Theater goes, to be honest, I don't recall ever being asked if the new app would be free or not. Sometimes unexpected delays happen. It's not being untrustworthy it's just reality. In the summer we launched built-in live tv support. We did not anticipate the level of popularity that that feature would reach and it forced us to shift a number of priorities around in order to accommodate it. That feature alone set everything else back by a couple months. So again I apologize but sometimes things take longer than anticipated. For the users still looking for a free option, there are other clients that make fantastic htpc front ends with Emby. Emby for WMC (a hack for running this on Windows 10 is mentioned) Kodi with the Emby Addon The existing Emby Theatre The Web Client For the people wondering why this thread was locked, it was not done because we didn't like what was being said here. In fact, a lot of important information is now included in this thread. It was done because the same arguments were repeating of both sides of the fence, and the moderation team felt that continuing this discussion no longer had any benefit to the community or the project.If you wish to continue voicing your concerns, please feel free to PM me. I am honestly more than happy to discuss it with you further.Regards,Scott Edited January 27, 2016 by swhitmore 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37094 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Unlocking because we want you guys to be able to voice your opinions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koleckai Silvestri 1150 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I believe that for those who are truly testing the new Theater or commit to expanding it via themes and plugins, they should get free access to the app. If they are just using it, like I am, then Premium is the way to go. A purchase price similar to other apps should be available if the user doesn't want to commit to a full Premium subscription. Not a solution that is 100% of what everyone wants but one that can help the project move forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0dyr0ck2006 57 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Thank you for taking the time to write that Scott @@swhitmore. It took a while for an official comment to be made from the team but hopefully now everyone will fully understand the reasons things have been done the way they have. I'm sure everyone will have learnt something here, both the community and the team as a whole. Hopefully moving forward the community can continue to grow and improve, bringing support and ideas to the table to help make Emby an even better bit of software. Perhaps your post could be made as a sticky and/or extrapolate the important details and add a blog post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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