Unable to extract subtitles for some films

[crusher11 854]

You've said plenty about them. Where do you think the cached extractions were coming from? Do you actually understand how subs work in Emby?

If you give an external sub a language tag Emby understands, you can't give it a name.

 

[Carlo 4330]

Sorry but I've not made comments about internal subs regardless of what you think except to say what you were trying to do won't work with the extractions you were doing. Luke told you the same thing.  What you were trying to do won't work on your system and you have no control of naming at ll that way.

For some reason you have pre-conceived notions that things can't be done that can be and some of them I just showed you, after you said it couldn't be done.

Instead of trying to telling us what Emby can't do, how about telling us what you want to do and let us help you?

 

[Carlo 4330]

41 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

Do you actually understand how subs work in Emby?

Yes we know.  One of us wrote the code and one of us wrote the book on it (well KB articles anyway).

Let us help you by telling us what you need to achieve.  

[crusher11 854]

54 minutes ago, cayars said:

Sorry but I've not made comments about internal subs regardless of what you think except to say what you were trying to do won't work with the extractions you were doing. Luke told you the same thing.  What you were trying to do won't work on your system and you have no control of naming at ll that way.

For some reason you have pre-conceived notions that things can't be done that can be and some of them I just showed you, after you said it couldn't be done.

Instead of trying to telling us what Emby can't do, how about telling us what you want to do and let us help you?

 

I've answered this fifteen times already. 

Internal subs don't magically become impossible to name just because extraction is enabled. 

External subs, if named, cannot have a language attributed. Having the name of a language in the subtitle name is not the same thing. 

[Carlo 4330]

Ok but that doesn't answer the question.

I don't care about naming or anything else right now that you've previously experienced.

What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish?

Forget what you've tried.  Tell us what you want to achieve.

[crusher11 854]

I want subtitles that have names and language tags associated with them, without restricting which characters I can and cannot use. Internal subs and their metadata work just damn fine, if they could be extracted. 

[pwhodges 1532]

1 hour ago, cayars said:

I don't care about naming or anything else right now that you've previously experienced.

What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish?

He wants to be able to use his subtitles.  When embedded he has a performance problem; when external, the name which was carried by the embedded subtitle stream is no longer available.

Now, if you have only one set of subtitles (per language), the name is unimportant so long as the correct language can be selected (which it can be).  However, if you have - as I frequently have - multiple sets of subtitles  which are different translations into the same language, then with external subtitles there is no way to give a descriptive name to each set of subtitles, whereas embedded subtitles can be given a name as part of the container.

EDIT: This is possible, I realise, but the naming is rather restrictive (e.g. no spaces or underscores allowed):

Now he could resolve the performance problem without spending money if he could have the server burn the subs in - but as the movies are HDR, that will involve major quality loss until Emby handles transcoding of HDR.

So his options are:
(1) External subs (multiple same-language subs can't be distinguished)
(2) Emby extracts subs (major performance limitation or even complete failure on big movies)
(3) Emby burns in subs (and losses HDR)
In other words, he is between a rock and a hard place right now, unless he can accept a single unnamed external subtitle (which should be fine in most circumstances).

There is nothing here that Emby can solve for him, other than the HDR transcoding - which is already a widely-commented issue!

Paul

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by pwhodges
Incorrect facts

[pwhodges 1532]

34 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

I want subtitles that have names and language tags associated with them, without restricting which characters I can and cannot use. Internal subs and their metadata work just damn fine, if they could be extracted. 

Do you have multiple subs of the same language for your movies (I often do, but I believe I am unusual in this)?  If not, why does having a name matter?

You can add a number to the filename to enable multiple subs; so if you have, for instance, subs for the main audio and subs for a commentary track, you could simply have a convention that the first sub file is always the main one.

Paul

Edited December 31, 2020 by pwhodges

[crusher11 854]

15 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

Now he could resolve the performance problem without spending money if he could have the server burn the subs in - but as the movies are HDR, that will involve major quality loss until Emby handles transcoding of HDR.

 

Not entirely true; if I had a system capable of transcoding 4K HEVC it'd likely handle extraction with little problem. So transcoding 4K is a no-go regardless, and frankly I'd rather not have to transcode anything if I can help it.

 

13 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

Do you have multiple subs of the same language for your movies (I often do, but I believe I am unusual in this)?  If not, why does having a name matter?

You can add a number to the filename to enable multiple subs; so if you have, for instance, subs for the main audio and subs for a commentary track, you could simply have a convention that the first sub file is always the main one.

Paul

I frequently have both dialogue and HoH subs, then sometimes commentary tracks, trivia tracks, etc.

 

Additional issue: external subs are always listed after internal subs, in...I'm not sure which order. Internal subs can be ordered however I damn well please.

And how does Emby choose the default? If I have two forced English tracks, one PGSSUB and one SRT, and I'm playing the title on a device that's not compatible with PGSSUB, will it default to the SRT? I don't want to delete my PGSSUB tracks because some devices are compatible with them and all else being equal I'd rather use them, especially in cases where they're fancier than just plain text (Avatar, The Godfather, etc).

 

And is there a quick way to just pull the timing for the PGSSUB track so I can check a downloaded SRT against it? First and last sub is usually sufficient for that but the only way I'm aware of is to extract the whole damn thing, which takes ages.

Edited December 31, 2020 by crusher11

[crusher11 854]

37 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

EDIT: This is possible, I realise, but the naming is rather restrictive (e.g. no spaces or underscores allowed):

 

 

Not really, because it still counts as the 'language' tag, not as the track name. So Emby then has no idea what language the subtitle is in, no track name shows up in external players such as VLC, etc.

[pwhodges 1532]

Yes, I only now realised that with the "free" name, the language tag is actually lost (and if you include it, it overrides the free name).  But that just brings us back to the fact that there is no current complete solution to your issue, and it is up to you to choose the most acceptable compromise from the possibilities.

Although VLC doesn't show the free name, MPC-HC does (because it shows the full file names of the external subs).

Paul

[crusher11 854]

I mean, extraction working and the cache being permanent would be just fine, really. The internal subs exist to handle the metadata, it refers to an already-extracted sub, problem solved. I was fine with that, and the extra few minutes of work needed to run the extraction.

[Carlo 4330]

5 hours ago, crusher11 said:

I mean, extraction working and the cache being permanent would be just fine, really.

That won't happen on your system so that's out and besides, you would have no control over naming like this at all.

Why is it important to be able to name your subs?  I don't see a major need for this.  You will normally only need one language per sub or possibly forced files.

Subs with "trick" features wouldn't need to be auto selected so no need for them to take on the language setting since they wouldn't be use like normal subs and you would not normally want Emby to auto select them.

I haven't seen a reason that SRT can't be used as they will never cause transcodes, won't affect 4K, can be used for any language needed and have room for changing the comments for non language specific subs.

[crusher11 854]

Why was my above post edited, @Luke?

 

[crusher11 854]

Just now, cayars said:

That won't happen on your system so that's out and besides, you would have no control over naming like this at all.

 

Why do you continue to lie?

[Luke 37095]

Just now, crusher11 said:

Why was my above post edited, @Luke?

 

Because that's spreading misinformation that others may see and think is actually true. We've already told you that your system can't extract quickly enough, so please disable that option. If you have an issue after that, please see:

Thanks.

[crusher11 854]

"Emby cannot support names for SRT files" is not misinformation.

Stop telling me to do something that doesn't solve my problem and pretending you've helped. I'm closer to a solution doing what I was doing before than if I followed your advice, in that subs almost always showed up eventually.

 

[Luke 37095]

Ok this topic is getting a little hostile so I'm going to lock it. If you need assistance and you're willing to actually follow/try the advice we suggest, then we're always here and happy to help.