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EMBY ATSC3


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ebr
5 hours ago, softworkz said:

Sure. What has been stated above is correct: As long as ffmpeg doesn't have it, there's nothing we can do, unless we want to invest a substantial amount of time and money.

The fact that neither ffmpeg nor VLC has it by now, might be an indication that it's not an easy task at all.

 

Or that, since Dolby's patent on AC3 expired, they have now created a new format so they can require licensing to use it again...

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softworkz
2 hours ago, ebr said:

Or that, since Dolby's patent on AC3 expired, they have now created a new format so they can require licensing to use it again...

Sure, absolutely, that's what they are doing, that's how they work. It's not about ground-breaking inventions (two other similar technologies had been considered for ATSC3 audio), it's about being at the right time at the right place and win this at the business level, eventually having all their latest assets added to the spec.
AC-4 had been added to the DVB specification 5 years before already. But there, it's just one out of many options and it didn't get adopted by significant players. Their big victory was that there's not much room left for alternatives in case of ATSC3.

Though, patents are not the reason why we don't see any open source implementation yet. Patents are very different from copyright issues, where it's primarily about monetizing the presentation, disclosure or publishing of an immaterial good to individuals, and the value is made up from the process of disclosing something that is not freely accessible.

In case of patents, it's about monetizing a certain procedure, mechanism or assembly that is visible and open to everybody up to the very last detail - i.e. public.
IIRC, it's even legitimate to replicate and use that patent for private purposes. But you can't make a business out of it without permission of the patent holder.

They can't (or at least don't) sue ffmpeg or VLC because these don't do business. There's nothing to win because there's no money behind. Also, no matter how popular ffmpeg and VLC may be - that's nothing compared to the $6 they are getting for every single consumer device using their stuff that is sold in the world.

Edited by softworkz
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whyteknt

I appreciate all the developers and administrators input on this topic.

I doubt many of the people that have the new SD 4k ATSC3 tuners are in a rush for this to be solved.   I suspect many are just anxious to help provide any feedback that might help efforts for a smoothly working EMBY product.    I'm putting my 4k tuner on the backburner for now, and will just keep an eye on how things develop.

 

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cayars

What's a bit surprising to me is not supplying an older audio format audio track in the broadcast.
Equally surprising is that SD never mentioned this that I know of or why they didn't provide audio conversion option in hardware.  Surely they know all the software currently being used with their hardware and could have mentioned ffmpeg has no audio support.

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Ignoring the AC4 issue, on two of the three H265 streams I have access to show "Playback Error No compatible streams are currently available. Please try again later or contact your system administrator for details."  All three work in the HDHomeRun app.

 


FriendlyName    "HDHomeRun CONNECT 4K"
ModelNumber     "HDHR5-4K"
FirmwareName    "hdhomerun5_atsc3"
FirmwareVersion "20201023"
DeviceID        "1080C836"
DeviceAuth      "6nby-t72ANp3HZVTOwfjtFCD"
BaseURL "http://192.168.1.196:80"
LineupURL       "http://192.168.1.196:80/lineup.json"
TunerCount      4

GuideNumber     "4.1"
GuideName       "WTAE"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v4.1

GuideNumber     "22.1"
GuideName       "WPNT"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v22.1"

GuideNumber     "53.1"
GuideName       "WPGH"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v53.1"

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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Luke
On 10/27/2020 at 5:15 PM, astuff said:
 

Ignoring the AC4 issue, on two of the three H265 streams I have access to show "Playback Error No compatible streams are currently available. Please try again later or contact your system administrator for details."  All three work in the HDHomeRun app.

 


FriendlyName    "HDHomeRun CONNECT 4K"
ModelNumber     "HDHR5-4K"
FirmwareName    "hdhomerun5_atsc3"
FirmwareVersion "20201023"
DeviceID        "1080C836"
DeviceAuth      "6nby-t72ANp3HZVTOwfjtFCD"
BaseURL "http://192.168.1.196:80"
LineupURL       "http://192.168.1.196:80/lineup.json"
TunerCount      4

GuideNumber     "4.1"
GuideName       "WTAE"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v4.1

GuideNumber     "22.1"
GuideName       "WPNT"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v22.1"

GuideNumber     "53.1"
GuideName       "WPGH"
VideoCodec      "H265"
AudioCodec      "AC4"
HD      1
URL     "http://192.168.1.196:5004/auto/v53.1"

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Hi there, let's look at an example. Please attach the information requested in how to report a media playback issue. thanks !

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whyteknt
On 10/19/2020 at 1:16 PM, whyteknt said:

Ebmy Theater (Ap) on my LG OLED C7 tv shows video, but no audio (and video only comes after a considerable delay in locking in the channel picture).

 

so:

Emby Theater on PC:  Video, but no sound

Emby Theater Ap on LG TV: Video, but no sound

Emby on 4k Firestick (on same LGTV):  Video, but no sound

HDHomeRun ap on same LG TV:  Video and Sound (good)

 

I can work on attaching a transcode file.   Do I need to be worried about putting any transcode files out on the Forums? (IP address, or Emby keys in that data??)  I assume it's safe to share those files without disclosing something I shouldn't.

 

just to update:   I have now gotten the emby LG tv ap to include ac4 sound.   my problem was that I had left some bitrate restrictions in that app setup.  changing to 'auto' on the bitrate, resolved the sound not working on that LG emby theater ap.    Still no luck through the firestick 4k, only the LG tv ap.   (using LG oled C7 tv).

my thanks to Rouq for the assist.

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9 minutes ago, whyteknt said:

just to update:   I have now gotten the emby LG tv ap to include ac4 sound.   my problem was that I had left some bitrate restrictions in that app setup.  changing to 'auto' on the bitrate, resolved the sound not working on that LG emby theater ap.    Still no luck through the firestick 4k, only the LG tv ap.   (using LG oled C7 tv).

my thanks to Rouq for the assist.

Just to add over that.

since ffmpeg (ffprobe) doesn't support ac4, there is only information about the video stream on emby server like you can see on this screenshot:

@Luke

mediainfo.PNG.db16bacbc9c8eea8a915491cb2625d21.PNG

 

However, if you have a device (in that case the LG Oled C7), that can support directplay for those 3 items:

1. Transport Stream .ts with no need for remux;

2. Direct play HEVC 10bit; and

3. Direct play Dolby AC4

Then you are in good shape, if 1 element cannot be direct play, then there will be no sound.  If there is an AVR connected over HDMI ARC, the TV will convert the AC4 to dolby Digital Plus.  It's what my LG Oled C8 does and you can get sound to the AVR as well.

Regards.

 

 

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  • ebr changed the title to EMBY ATSC3

Poking around it also appears that the ffmpeg included with Emby's Mac server was not built with H265 support. 

We need to get the developers in the US an ATSC3 tuner.  How about a Gofundme ?

Edited by astuff
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jscherrer18

I am going to be purchasing an HDhomerun Connect in the next few weeks.  I am considering the 4k Quatro to somewhat future proof myself.  It looks like the 3.0 tuners are also backwards compatible with 1.0 as well.  Can I assume Emby would recognize the 4 tuners and operate seamlessly under ATSC 1.0?

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cayars
2 hours ago, jscherrer18 said:

I am going to be purchasing an HDhomerun Connect in the next few weeks.  I am considering the 4k Quatro to somewhat future proof myself.  It looks like the 3.0 tuners are also backwards compatible with 1.0 as well.  Can I assume Emby would recognize the 4 tuners and operate seamlessly under ATSC 1.0?

Hi, Yes they are backward compatible.

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whyteknt
3 hours ago, cayars said:

Hi, Yes they are backward compatible.

are you sure that is completely true?   The 4k connect hdhomerun has 4 tuners total (2x 1.0 and 2x 3.0).  the 2 3.0 tuners in the 4k connect can't pick up 1.0 signals can they?   if someone is in an area that is still only getting atsc 1.0 signal broadcasts, the 4k connect won't allow that person to pull 4 separate atsc 1.0 signals at once, will it?

I would have assumed it could only pick up 2 atsc 1.0 signals with the 2 tuners that are not the 3.0 tuners.

 

perhaps I'm wrong about that.   I have the 4k connect tuner, and I have not seen it yet pull in a 1.0 signal with the 3.0 tuners.

 

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cayars

No I'm not sure personally as I have no ATSC 3.0 in my area, not an HDHR 3.0 tuner to try, but from playing on a remote system of a user, would say it does pickup the typical OTA channels.

Hopefully anyone with one of these tuners can test/report back.

But with that said https://shop.silicondust.com/shop/product/hdhomerun-connect-4k-p-n-hdhr5-4k/ says this:

4 tuners (2 ATSC 3.0/1.0 and 2 ATSC 1.0)

So it should.

With that said, if you have ATSC 3.0 in your area and want to try it but also want 1.0 fallback send me a PM if unsure of your (future) purchase.  I'll eventually pick up one of these devices so would be willing to let you purchase it and try it and if it doesn't work allow me to purchase it from you (you eat tax and shipping to me) :)  I've been thinking of ordering one, but have no ATSC 3.0 in my area yet, but know I'll need one for support at some point so...  Send me a PM for clarification if you want to do this, but this might help you pull the trigger if you want one.

Carlo

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clarkss12
6 hours ago, whyteknt said:

are you sure that is completely true?   The 4k connect hdhomerun has 4 tuners total (2x 1.0 and 2x 3.0).  the 2 3.0 tuners in the 4k connect can't pick up 1.0 signals can they?   if someone is in an area that is still only getting atsc 1.0 signal broadcasts, the 4k connect won't allow that person to pull 4 separate atsc 1.0 signals at once, will it?

I would have assumed it could only pick up 2 atsc 1.0 signals with the 2 tuners that are not the 3.0 tuners.

 

perhaps I'm wrong about that.   I have the 4k connect tuner, and I have not seen it yet pull in a 1.0 signal with the 3.0 tuners.

 

I have had my 4k connect using all 4 tuners at the same time.......  ATSC 3 is not available in my area at this time..  From the Silicondust forum, the 4k tuner uses the first two 1.0 tuners THEN the 3.0 tuners, to keep the 3.0 tuners available if needed.  But, it does use all 4 tuners for the 1.0 signals.

All you have to do is schedule enough recordings to use all 4 tuners, to test it.

Edited by clarkss12
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whyteknt
6 hours ago, clarkss12 said:

I have had my 4k connect using all 4 tuners at the same time.......  ATSC 3 is not available in my area at this time..  From the Silicondust forum, the 4k tuner uses the first two 1.0 tuners THEN the 3.0 tuners, to keep the 3.0 tuners available if needed.  But, it does use all 4 tuners for the 1.0 signals.

All you have to do is schedule enough recordings to use all 4 tuners, to test it.

Thank you.  I do have ATSC 3.0 signals in my area (Portland OR), and I didn't know of a way to force those 3.0 tuners to ignore the 3.0 signal.   So I couldn't figure out a way to test this myself.

so this is good to know.

If anyone does know if a way to force the 4k Connect to use the 3.0 tuners for 1.0 signals, let me know.   Right now, because of the limitation on the HEVC AC4/ffmpeg sound issue for some applications, I'd love to use the 4k connect just for 1.0 signals (force it to ignore the 3.0 signals), for now at least.    I'm sure there is a way, I just haven't figured it out yet.

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clarkss12
22 minutes ago, whyteknt said:

Thank you.  I do have ATSC 3.0 signals in my area (Portland OR), and I didn't know of a way to force those 3.0 tuners to ignore the 3.0 signal.   So I couldn't figure out a way to test this myself.

so this is good to know.

If anyone does know if a way to force the 4k Connect to use the 3.0 tuners for 1.0 signals, let me know.   Right now, because of the limitation on the HEVC AC4/ffmpeg sound issue for some applications, I'd love to use the 4k connect just for 1.0 signals (force it to ignore the 3.0 signals), for now at least.    I'm sure there is a way, I just haven't figured it out yet.

So, you are saying that IF you try to record four ATSC 1.0 shows (or ever how many tuners you have), your 4k tuner will NOT utilize the two "4k tuners", so it will only record two of the four scheduled recordings???  And you have tried it??

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whyteknt

so I just tried, and I CAN record 4 different ATSC 1.0 channels at once with the 4k connect.    So thank you.

 

But what I still need to be able to do is prioritize my scheduled recordings to only look for the 1.0 signals on the 3.0 tuners.   Right now, most of my scheduled series are trying to record the 3.0 signal, and so I wind up without sound available when viewing on PC or through 4k Firestick on my TV (my preferred viewing method)

Maybe there is a way to disable those 3.0 channels/signals in the HDhomerun ap.   Just haven't had time to look into  it yet.

 

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clarkss123
20 minutes ago, whyteknt said:

so I just tried, and I CAN record 4 different ATSC 1.0 channels at once with the 4k connect.    So thank you.

 

But what I still need to be able to do is prioritize my scheduled recordings to only look for the 1.0 signals on the 3.0 tuners.   Right now, most of my scheduled series are trying to record the 3.0 signal, and so I wind up without sound available when viewing on PC or through 4k Firestick on my TV (my preferred viewing method)

Maybe there is a way to disable those 3.0 channels/signals in the HDhomerun ap.   Just haven't had time to look into  it yet.

 

I think that has been done discussed on the SiliconDust forum, not sure what the solution was.

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cayars

Can't you turn this off or use the favorite feature like with other HDHomeRuns to only import channels you can use in Emby?

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whyteknt

In the HDHomerun Setup program, I don't see a way to turn off just the 3.0 signals.  And the 1.0 signal for the same channel is not listed separately in that tool either, so I don't see any way to skip or 'favorite' a particular signal it as part of the process.

I did see where someone else tried to ask this question on the SD forum, but I don't see that it was resolved there either.   https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=133&t=74267

 

 

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jscherrer18
12 hours ago, clarkss12 said:

I have had my 4k connect using all 4 tuners at the same time.......  ATSC 3 is not available in my area at this time..  From the Silicondust forum, the 4k tuner uses the first two 1.0 tuners THEN the 3.0 tuners, to keep the 3.0 tuners available if needed.  But, it does use all 4 tuners for the 1.0 signals.

All you have to do is schedule enough recordings to use all 4 tuners, to test it.

This is what I needed to know.  Now the bigger decision is my market is not one of the "first" markets so I have no idea when they will actually convert.  Even when they start, it could take years for all stations to migrate over.

 

Does it even make sense to purchase the first version of this product?  The more I am thinking about it, it probably doesn't in my case.  Opinions welcome.

 

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clarkss12
1 hour ago, jscherrer18 said:

This is what I needed to know.  Now the bigger decision is my market is not one of the "first" markets so I have no idea when they will actually convert.  Even when they start, it could take years for all stations to migrate over.

 

Does it even make sense to purchase the first version of this product?  The more I am thinking about it, it probably doesn't in my case.  Opinions welcome.

 

For practical purposes, it does not make much sense to purchase one at this time.  However, if you like to tinker, and love a challenger, then it is for you.  It is still a 4 tuner device, that eventually can be used for the new ATSC 3.0 TV broadcast......

My personality, dictates that I acquire almost all the new alpha devices, just for testing.

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