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Slow Tuning - HDHR

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PristDean
On 7/30/2020 at 9:55 PM, Luke said:

As soon as the TV app gets all of the advancements that we are working on here:

Then you should see better starting performance. It shouldn't be too long.

Thanks @Luke, I tried it and it feels like there is a lot of work to do with that, I do realise it's Beta.  It's faster to navigate, but cannot load any HD channels for me. Takes a 3 to 5 seconds now to load an SD channel, which is better, but not as good as 'Channels DVR' and still a lot of work to do on the UI I guess.

Something that is really good in my opinion about Channels DVR is the ability to have commercial breaks identified in recordings then deal with them as you choose, automatically skip, select a button on screen to skip or manually. Could that be considered in Emby ?

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Luke
5 hours ago, PristDean said:

Thanks @Luke, I tried it and it feels like there is a lot of work to do with that, I do realise it's Beta.  It's faster to navigate, but cannot load any HD channels for me. Takes a 3 to 5 seconds now to load an SD channel, which is better, but not as good as 'Channels DVR' and still a lot of work to do on the UI I guess.

Something that is really good in my opinion about Channels DVR is the ability to have commercial breaks identified in recordings then deal with them as you choose, automatically skip, select a button on screen to skip or manually. Could that be considered in Emby ?

What work on the UI are you referring to?

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Luke
5 hours ago, PristDean said:

Thanks @Luke, I tried it and it feels like there is a lot of work to do with that, I do realise it's Beta.  It's faster to navigate, but cannot load any HD channels for me. Takes a 3 to 5 seconds now to load an SD channel, which is better, but not as good as 'Channels DVR' and still a lot of work to do on the UI I guess.

Something that is really good in my opinion about Channels DVR is the ability to have commercial breaks identified in recordings then deal with them as you choose, automatically skip, select a button on screen to skip or manually. Could that be considered in Emby ?

Also 3-5 seconds is not normal, it should be near instant. Was the server transcoding?

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cayars
48 minutes ago, Luke said:

Also 3-5 seconds is not normal, it should be near instant. Was the server transcoding?

I'm seeing the same times as well with .24 and latest Server Beta using WIFI tuning these channels while direct playing..

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PristDean
1 hour ago, Luke said:

Also 3-5 seconds is not normal, it should be near instant. Was the server transcoding?

App picked up my server, settings just as they ever were. As for the UI, looks like it's in beta mode to me, by that I mean is, guide appears unfinished, truncates some info, only shows me 4 /12 rows of channel info. Will not load HD channels and takes a while to load others. Having configured 'Channels HDR' I know for sure my setup / technical environment is just fine. Channels HDR opens all channels almost instantly and flicks through the guide and dash with speed.

As mentioned, i'm running your beta, i'm somewhat concerned that the issues raised are news to you...how are you testing, what environments?...  a mix of all environments ?... Synology + Android TV ?,  Apple TV etc etc ?

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Luke
2 minutes ago, PristDean said:

App picked up my server, settings just as they ever were. As for the UI, looks like it's in beta mode to me, by that I mean is, guide appears unfinished, truncates some info, only shows me 4 /12 rows of channel info. Will not load HD channels and takes a while to load others. Having configured 'Channels HDR' I know for sure my setup / technical environment is just fine. Channels HDR opens all channels almost instantly and flicks through the guide and dash with speed.

As mentioned, i'm running your beta, i'm somewhat concerned that the issues raised are news to you...how are you testing, what environments?...  a mix of all environments ?... Synology + Android TV ?,  Apple TV etc etc ?

Why do you feel it won't load hd channels?

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PristDean

Luke.... It won't load HD channels because looking at it I just feel it won't !... now i'm being sardonic. 

If you'd asked... What happens when you try to load HD channels?... i'd say... I just get a continual spinning circle until I try to exit out, then the spinning circle follows me back to the dash, before eventually disappearing.

What test environments do you feel you are you using ?

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Luke
26 minutes ago, PristDean said:

Luke.... It won't load HD channels because looking at it I just feel it won't !... now i'm being sardonic. 

If you'd asked... What happens when you try to load HD channels?... i'd say... I just get a continual spinning circle until I try to exit out, then the spinning circle follows me back to the dash, before eventually disappearing.

What test environments do you feel you are you using ?

All of the ones we support.

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PristDean
1 hour ago, Luke said:

All of the ones we support.

You missed the opportunity :)

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cayars

Not sure what that means.  Keep in mind when Live TV was added to Emby there wasn't as many supported tuners, there wasn't as many clients and especially the networks/broadcaster/cable companies weren't using nearly as many different codecs and weird things that really don't meet proper spec.  Now some IPTV providers are doing 4K HEVC as well adding additional complexity.  The native players on different devices had a lot more limitations compared to what they have now as well.

As Emby has updated clients with new features & new players that support more codecs, it's expanded the way that Live TV can be used or could be used if things were done differently.  It's an evolution.

You only want to patch things so much before you redo the architecture for the future and adapt to the new hardware, new codecs, new players, newer clients and new features you want to add.  You think they "missed the opportunity" but I think they are "seizing the opportunity" with the new Live TV project.

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PristDean

Let me explain then @cayars, it's actually missed 'opportunities':

1. I gave an initial sardonic answer as I was asked 'how I feel', not what I am experiencing.  I did the same in that reply, so opportunity to retort missed, if only in sardonic fun :)

2. My perspective, as a consumer, a customer, is that the 'home media centre' market place was wide open, but narrowing fast. Whoever can gain pole position by having a solution which is fast, easy to use, great UI, yet configurable to a users tastes within their own environment, with a cost effective one off or subscription based plan; will win all those migrating from traditional providers such as Sky, Virgin Media etc, plus those new to the market for such a solution. The opportunity to forge a leading position in this market place is being lost here I feel, the customer dictates that, the provider influences it, you win them or lose them, the challenge is yours. So as a customer, keeping the marketplace in mind, potentially, opportunity missed. 

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softworkz
12 minutes ago, PristDean said:

Let me explain then @cayars, it's actually missed 'opportunities':

1. I gave an initial sardonic answer as I was asked 'how I feel', not what I am experiencing.  I did the same in that reply, so opportunity to retort missed, if only in sardonic fun :)

2. My perspective, as a consumer, a customer, is that the 'home media centre' market place was wide open, but narrowing fast. Whoever can gain pole position by having a solution which is fast, easy to use, great UI, yet configurable to a users tastes within their own environment, with a cost effective one off or subscription based plan; will win all those migrating from traditional providers such as Sky, Virgin Media etc, plus those new to the market for such a solution. The opportunity to forge a leading position in this market place is being lost here I feel, the customer dictates that, the provider influences it, you win them or lose them, the challenge is yours. So as a customer, keeping the marketplace in mind, potentially, opportunity missed. 

I understand what you are saying and I agree to many of the details.

But in one point you are way off: No opportunity is lost because your are saying it and even less, right in the moment when you are saying it.

There is a huge effort being made to deliver a great TV experience. But that takes time and it can't be accelerated. Neither do we want to publish any half-baked solution. If you cannot wait and are in need for an instant solution, you are welcome to look elsewhere. But we would be glad when you would take another look at Emby in a while, when we will have released the new TV experience.

Kind regards,
softworkz

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PristDean
1 hour ago, softworkz said:

I understand what you are saying and I agree to many of the details.

But in one point you are way off: No opportunity is lost because your are saying it and even less, right in the moment when you are saying it.

There is a huge effort being made to deliver a great TV experience. But that takes time and it can't be accelerated. Neither do we want to publish any half-baked solution. If you cannot wait and are in need for an instant solution, you are welcome to look elsewhere. But we would be glad when you would take another look at Emby in a while, when we will have released the new TV experience.

Kind regards,
softworkz

And there it is... telling a customer they are 'way off''.  My view is my view of your solution, and you are unfortunately enforcing it further as a developer with comments like that.

Yes, I and others can choose, you are making that an easier choice for me and others. I have looked elsewhere, as have others, and found a better solution which in my opinion.... i'll emphasise that... in my opinion as a customer & consumer... is ahead of where Emby is now.

I do hope you get things right, eventually, to create competition in the market place. Good luck

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cayars

Of course how YOU feel, can't be argued with as it's personal. There are short comings with Live TV/DVR in the present product and we're quite aware of that and the simple fact the current product doesn't meet the needs of some people and have to look elsewhere and use Channels DVR, NextPVR or some other solution proves that. 

So if you look at today only then yes there is lost opportunity because the Live TV product isn't everything the customer needs or wants.  But at the same time most (not all) people come to Emby because they already have a large library or want to create one and have their own family version of Netflix or Crackle type system. To them Live TV is nice but an after thought and not as important as the core features of Emby, but would be nice to have all features in one app.  That's where a lot of present customers fit.

In it's present form, I doubt many people would choose Emby strictly for Live TV/DVR and not the other core features built into Emby. So that IS lost opportunity for sure.

With the new Live TV system we hope to change the above and create new opportunity that doesn't presently exist based on Live TV/DVR.

I think we're all saying the same thing just looking at it differently (glass half full, or half empty).

 

 

 

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PristDean

It's about the end game, the final product in the market, something that suits all customers no matter what their preference but every aspect of the product works as expected, nothing 'half baked'. After all, it is purported to be a 'complete' product in terms of a media centre and in offering what it does. Live TV plays a large part of that, recordings, schedules, guide etc.

I'll eagerly await the 'large project' to see how things fair at that point, hopefully not too far away. I'm obviously still interested in Emby, hence I respond to these posts in the hope that I and others can add a customers value to the cause. 

Yes, we have similar thoughts on this, but are in different camps, customer & supplier, so there will be differences in views..... and choices too.

Edited by PristDean

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cayars

Couldn't agree more with you about the end game and final product.

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