Why do you chose Emby over Plex?

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Damien_ said:

how about the admin controls-  as the server owner you have true controls over the end user experience to a pretty granular level. Plex you basically have none and never will as that's their target audience - our shares supply their never ending people to market their ad-supported tv, tidal wave whater er, and now you can "buy movies" (no such thing, you don't own it). connecting directly to my server the list goes on..

At this point the server owner is simply a tool for Plex. I have no doubt that if they achieve their end goal of the all in one media hub, the server will eventually go. I can't imagine why you would want to watch whatever premium service you pay for via an intermediary instead of the hosts app it was specifically built for but good luck with that. 

Much of this is misleading, even more of it is simply wrong.

As the server admin for plex, you can create managed users and have control over them with the same granularity as emby and jellyfin. That statement was simply false. I don't know what you mean by our shares supply their ad-supported tv market, but if you are saying you don't like the iptv and music service stuff, you can, as i do, turn all of that off really easily server wide.

You also are very capable of directly connecting to the server and you don't need an intermediary to play content back, its there for people who are unable/incapable of setting up a port forward/reverse proxy/vpn or whatever other method you want to use to direct connect.

If Plex ever became an exclusively off-site hosted service, I would quit using it, but its pure speculation as to whether or not that occurs. I could also say that emby wants to go that route and there isn't any doubt in my mind, but at the end of the day its an opinion and really just silly speculation.

Its not mentioned in the quoted text anywhere, but another topic is privacy/data collection. With Plex and emby, you are trusting a business with your data. Jellyfin is your best option here 100%. I've seen many people say they switched to emby because of Plex's privacy policy, but at least they explain that they are collecting data, what they collect, how they use it, who they can share it with, and give you an opt-out option for part of the collection. Emby has a don't ask and don't tell even if you do ask policy. They don't have what they are collecting spelled out, or how they will use it, and who they'll share it with. Personally, for that, I've always found it odd that people seem to think emby is the better choice for privacy, but if you are really concerned you should be using Jellyfin anyway.

Also, not just trashing on emby for no reason, I used it for a very long time and still help relatives who use it. There are things it does well / better than plex. For example, I like to use channels dvr with my yttv to be able to watch and record live tv, which is easier to do with emby. It is just as easy to do it with jellyfin though.

Edited February 7 by lukeoslavia

[Luke 37153]

Quote

Emby has a don't ask and don't tell even if you do ask policy. They don't have what they are collecting spelled out, or how they will use it, and who they'll share it with.

@lukeoslaviaI don't think that's true. Have you checked out our privacy policy on our website? https://emby.media/privacy.html

We don't have any data collection, or telemetry, nor do we share anything with anyone.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Luke said:

@lukeoslaviaI don't think that's true. Have you checked out our privacy policy on our website? https://emby.media/privacy.html

We don't have any data collection, or telemetry, nor do we share anything with anyone.

Apologies, I didn't mean data collection in the context of the website, but the server. If what I said is untrue about that I would be happy to know about it, because it's long bothered me. The last I investigated, EBR had mentioned that information was collected from our servers, and that there was no opt-out and that one would not be offered because if it was, people would use it without reading up on it, which to me, is a very poor excuse.

If you do have information about what is collected, how its used, who its shared with, and whether or not an opt-out has been added in, I would like to read up on that as well. All of that being in the context of our servers, not the website.

[Luke 37153]

1 minute ago, lukeoslavia said:

Apologies, I didn't mean data collection in the context of the website, but the server. If what I said is untrue about that I would be happy to know about it, because it's long bothered me. The last I investigated, EBR had mentioned that information was collected from our servers, and that there was no opt-out and that one would not be offered because if it was, people would use it without reading up on it, which to me, is a very poor excuse.

If you do have information about what is collected, how its used, who its shared with, and whether or not an opt-out has been added in, I would like to read up on that as well. All of that being in the context of our servers, not the website.

Emby Premiere validations and plugin downloads are about the only network requests that go from your Emby Server to ours. That and Emby Connect updates if you use that feature. We don't even capture any telemetry in the server, which to some sounds primitive but the privacy buffs tend to appreciate it. It's about as barebones as you can get.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

Emby Premiere validations and plugin downloads are about the only network requests that go from your Emby Server to ours. That and Emby Connect updates if you use that feature. We don't even capture any telemetry in the server, which to some sounds primitive but the privacy buffs tend to appreciate it. It's about as barebones as you can get.

Is this spelled out anywhere? I also believe ebr at one time mentioned you also collect information about what apps are used in order to decide where to spend development efforts. Has that also change, remained the same, or was it ever true?

[Luke 37153]

8 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

Is this spelled out anywhere? I also believe ebr at one time mentioned you also collect information about what apps are used in order to decide where to spend development efforts. Has that also change, remained the same, or was it ever true?

@ebrshould respond to that, but the server doesn't contain any reporting related to app usage. The app stores give us install and usage numbers that tell us what we need to know.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Luke said:

@ebrshould respond to that, but the server doesn't contain any reporting related to app usage. The app stores give us install and usage numbers that tell us what we need to know.

It was quite an old thread, I would like to find it if its still on the forum. I read up on it when I had initially started using emby, which was a very long time ago.

I have found the thread (from 2016) I was mentioning and in it, he did mention that you do collect information about what apps are being used and also mentioned that the data collection had nothing to do with libraries and all that. The issue was and is that it isn't actually spelled out in a policy anywhere what exactly is being collected, and there is no ability to opt out of the collection because as he said:

Quote

To this point we have left it as mandatory because the vast majority of features in the platform are free and the vast majority of users are using the platform for free. We can certainly decide to change that and add it as an option. However, I know that as soon as we do that the statistics we have will be next to useless.

 

And later in the topic:

Quote

When presented with an option, 90% of people will opt-out (or not opt-in).  They won't bother to read any further description nor will they believe it if they do.

They will, just as you have, assume it is nefarious and not allow it.

So dies another way we can try to provide service to the community for free.

This is bad reasoning for not telling people what is collected and not giving them a choice. So again, if this has changed and you do have it detailed as to what is being collected I would consider you even with Plex in the area of privacy, but as of now its just that they are telling you what they are doing and emby isn't.

Edited February 7 by lukeoslavia

[Damien_ 27]

2 hours ago, lukeoslavia said:

Much of this is misleading, even more of it is simply wrong.

As the server admin for plex, you can create managed users and have control over them with the same granularity as emby and jellyfin. That statement was simply false. I don't know what you mean by our shares supply their ad-supported tv market, but if you are saying you don't like the iptv and music service stuff, you can, as i do, turn all of that off really easily server wide.

You also are very capable of directly connecting to the server and you don't need an intermediary to play content back, its there for people who are unable/incapable of setting up a port forward/reverse proxy/vpn or whatever other method you want to use to direct connect.

If Plex ever became an exclusively off-site hosted service, I would quit using it, but its pure speculation as to whether or not that occurs. I could also say that emby wants to go that route and there isn't any doubt in my mind, but at the end of the day its an opinion and really just silly speculation.

Its not mentioned in the quoted text anywhere, but another topic is privacy/data collection. With Plex and emby, you are trusting a business with your data. Jellyfin is your best option here 100%. I've seen many people say they switched to emby because of Plex's privacy policy, but at least they explain that they are collecting data, what they collect, how they use it, who they can share it with, and give you an opt-out option for part of the collection. Emby has a don't ask and don't tell even if you do ask policy. They don't have what they are collecting spelled out, or how they will use it, and who they'll share it with. Personally, for that, I've always found it odd that people seem to think emby is the better choice for privacy, but if you are really concerned you should be using Jellyfin anyway.

Also, not just trashing on emby for no reason, I used it for a very long time and still help relatives who use it. There are things it does well / better than plex. For example, I like to use channels dvr with my yttv to be able to watch and record live tv, which is easier to do with emby. It is just as easy to do it with jellyfin 

 

 nope, everting I listed is accurate. You on the other hand - 100% of this is  nonsense (least 100% of what I bothered to read). I won’t waste my reliving every wrong/made up claim as you clearly have an agenda (not a well thought one) here but here’s a a couple quick notes to chew on (I admit I skimmed your post  as it was apparent quickly- you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about- here’s a couple questions to think about - why is logging into plex a necessity to access your or friends plex’s server? Why is it required to leave port 32400 open? As far as the other nonsense, as in controls as granular as Emby. This isn’t even subjective, it’s not in the ballpark or even close. This is wrong in any possible scenario you look at it. Plex would tell you were wrong. You’ve never used emby, plex or slightly challenged. 

Managed users? I’m hoping that’s a joke. That’s for people under the same roof. If you educated yourself as much as you pretended to know what you’re talking about you’d know that’s highly inadvisable from a security perspective (and plex themselves says as much very clearly- a quick google could’ve saved you here).  It’s so you can manage what your kids can/can not see. This is plex 101, managed users are under the same roof. 

I can’t believe a responded to this steaming pile of dung. 

Edit- god your our life must be something. . Read your history and the last months,  you jump on here with the sole purpose of shitting on Emby. This ‘I used to like Emby’ bs is ‘I couldn’t figure out how to use it so I’ll come back and shit on it instead’. 
 

How boring and sad to jump on here come just to take dump on it bc you couldn’t figure it out, or whatever offended you so much to continually make a bunch of statements highlighting  your lack of knowledge in either area. Take up bowling, go for a walk, do something bc it’s kinda sad. 

Edited February 7 by Damien_

[darkassassin07 432]

7 hours ago, Luke said:

@ebrThe app stores give us install and usage numbers that tell us what we need to know.

(can't remove the ebr tag...)

 

 

Sounds like it's google collecting telemetry like they do with all apps. The terms for that would be in the various app stores, not Emby.

[Dreakon13 132]

I think regardless how one might speculate where Plex and Emby are heading, the simple fact is Emby likely doesn't have the resources or the connections to try and be the all-in-one streaming solution Plex is trying to be.  So from everything I've seen Emby's focus is just being the best darn personal media server that it can be, and for that reason alone if I have to put my money somewhere, I'd rather bet on them being the better solution for me long term.

But aside from that there's two reasons I left Plex...

1. It didn't work, in particular for remote family members.  Every night I'd be on the phone with a different connection issue and every night I'd tweak a few random settings and it'd work again for no particular reason.  Heaven knows the hoops that dumb software has people connecting through these days.  I don't think there has been a single issue like that with Emby since I officially made the switch, and frankly despite not being a networking wiz, I appreciate that I can make and control my own hoops.  I've learned a lot and think I did a pretty good job securing my setup.

2. Plex support is terrible.  I have no idea who is in charge over there, most threads in their forums go unanswered, most updates include changes no one asked for or breaks something with no help in sight.  The Emby team here is not only incredibly active... but I've personally worked with them towards fixing some (IMO) major features, like Google Home casting, that I use every day now.  So I've seen the results of cooperating with them.

Edited February 7 by Dreakon13

[ebr 14947]

9 hours ago, lukeoslavia said:

I have found the thread (from 2016)

That information is very outdated.  The only thing we track is for the purposes of providing functionality (e.g. Connect, Premiere or plugin trials and validation, etc.).  We never have and never will collect any information on what you watch or what is in your library.  Others do.

The only thing that is shared with anyone outside the company is a raw total number of users of guide data.  We are required to provide this to GraceNote because they bill us for it.  A single number (e.g. 100) is all that is shared and that is on a monthly basis.

9 hours ago, lukeoslavia said:

I don't know what you mean by our shares supply their ad-supported tv market

He means that, in order for anyone to use your "personal" media server, that person has to create an account with Plex.  IMO this is actually their business model - to harvest users in this manner in order to show ad and content partners all the eyes they can put their product in front of.  IMO this is the only way they ever could have secured the outside funding that they have.  There is simply no path to those guys making 10x their investment with a truly personal server setup.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Damien_ said:

 nope, everting I listed is accurate. You on the other hand - 100% of this is  nonsense (least 100% of what I bothered to read). I won’t waste my reliving every wrong/made up claim as you clearly have an agenda (not a well thought one) here but here’s a a couple quick notes to chew on (I admit I skimmed your post  as it was apparent quickly- you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about- here’s a couple questions to think about - why is logging into plex a necessity to access your or friends plex’s server? Why is it required to leave port 32400 open? As far as the other nonsense, as in controls as granular as Emby. This isn’t even subjective, it’s not in the ballpark or even close. This is wrong in any possible scenario you look at it. Plex would tell you were wrong. You’ve never used emby, plex or slightly challenged. 

Managed users? I’m hoping that’s a joke. That’s for people under the same roof. If you educated yourself as much as you pretended to know what you’re talking about you’d know that’s highly inadvisable from a security perspective (and plex themselves says as much very clearly- a quick google could’ve saved you here).  It’s so you can manage what your kids can/can not see. This is plex 101, managed users are under the same roof. 

I can’t believe a responded to this steaming pile of dung. 

Edit- god your our life must be something. . Read your history and the last months,  you jump on here with the sole purpose of shitting on Emby. This ‘I used to like Emby’ bs is ‘I couldn’t figure out how to use it so I’ll come back and shit on it instead’. 
 

How boring and sad to jump on here come just to take dump on it bc you couldn’t figure it out, or whatever offended you so much to continually make a bunch of statements highlighting  your lack of knowledge in either area. Take up bowling, go for a walk, do something bc it’s kinda sad. 

You're giving brain damage, im just going to leave it at that with you. You clearly are biased and have no clue how Plex works, good luck in your future endeavors.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, ebr said:

That information is very outdated.  The only thing we track is for the purposes of providing functionality (e.g. Connect, Premiere or plugin trials and validation, etc.).  We never have and never will collect any information on what you watch or what is in your library.  Others do.

The only thing that is shared with anyone outside the company is a raw total number of users of guide data.  We are required to provide this to GraceNote because they bill us for it.  A single number (e.g. 100) is all that is shared and that is on a monthly basis.

He means that, in order for anyone to use your "personal" media server, that person has to create an account with Plex.  IMO this is actually their business model - to harvest users in this manner in order to show ad and content partners all the eyes they can put their product in front of.  IMO this is the only way they ever could have secured the outside funding that they have.  There is simply no path to those guys making 10x their investment with a truly personal server setup.

Fair enough if it is actually outdated, but again, another thing has changed it went from we collect nothing and dont send data to any third parties, to we collect the number of users for apps and now sending that data to gracenote. You should really spell this out in a policy and detail what exactly you are collecting, who you share it with, and allow people to opt out.

As far as having to have a plex account to connect to a server, that only applies to the admin of the server, you can connect family members, even outside your home to your server without them having a plex account, its just not for the average user.

Edited February 7 by lukeoslavia

[ebr 14947]

4 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

to we collect the number of users for apps

No we don't but Google, Amazon, etc do.

5 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

and allow people to opt out.

There is nothing to opt-out of.  When you install an app from an app store, you accept the terms of that app store.  As for our report to GN that is not personal or identifiable information and is a contractual agreement that cannot be bypassed.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ebr said:

No we don't but Google, Amazon, etc do.

There is nothing to opt-out of.  When you install an app from an app store, you accept the terms of that app store.  As for our report to GN that is not personal or identifiable information and is a contractual agreement that cannot be bypassed.

You are saying you don't collect data, but you are collecting the data even if its only through google/amazon/roku whatever, and then giving it to someone else. All of which is irrelevant to the main point which is again, you need to spell out what data about your server users you are collecting, using, why, who you share it with, and if possible allow users to opt out of it.

[Dreakon13 132]

32 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

As far as having to have a plex account to connect to a server, that only applies to the admin of the server, you can connect family members, even outside your home to your server without them having a plex account, its just not for the average user.

You can do that, so I'm sure it skews their data a bit... but it's also a pretty frustrating, insecure process to do remotely, that Plex themselves discourage.  Ultimately they want everyone accessing a Plex share to have a Plex account.  That's the framework they've primarily designed the software around.

Edited February 7 by Dreakon13

[ebr 14947]

26 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

You are saying you don't collect data, but you are collecting the data even if its only through google/amazon/roku whatever, and then giving it to someone els

Somehow you are misunderstanding everything (or just being intentionally combative).  WE are not collecting data and sharing with anyone.

A total number of [whatever] that use a particular feature is not "collecting data" from users.  It does not fall under the definition of "personally identifiable data".

Whether the number is 100 or 99 does not impact any individual.

[ebr 14947]

2 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

Ultimately they want everyone accessing a Plex share to have a Plex account.  That's the framework they've primarily designed the software around

In fact, in their latest announcements, they were crowing about how much data they had on people's usage.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dreakon13 said:

You can do that, so I'm sure it skews their data a bit... but it's also a pretty frustrating, insecure process to do remotely, that Plex themselves discourage.  Ultimately they want everyone accessing a Plex share to have a Plex account, likely for data collection purposes among other things.

I agree it is pretty frustrating that its what they want to the point that most think its the only way. I dont like that they collect data either, but at least they inform you about what they collect and present your choices in the matter.

2 minutes ago, ebr said:

Somehow you are misunderstanding everything.  WE are not collecting data and sharing with anyone.

A total number of [whatever] that use a particular feature is not "collecting data" from users.  It does not fall under the definition of "personally identifiable data".

Whether the number is 100 or 99 does not impact any individual.

Quote

The only thing that is shared with anyone outside the company is a raw total number of users of guide data.  We are required to provide this to GraceNote because they bill us for it.  A single number (e.g. 100) is all that is shared and that is on a monthly basis.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, maybe you can clarify. I don't see how you can send information to GraceNote you don't have or never gather.

What I am imagining based on what you said before is that you gather a number of users from google/amazon/roku and send that information to GraceNote. That seems like collecting data and sharing it with a 3rd party.

[Luke 37153]

2 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

I agree it is pretty frustrating that its what they want to the point that most think its the only way. I dont like that they collect data either, but at least they inform you about what they collect and present your choices in the matter.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, maybe you can clarify. I don't see how you can send information to GraceNote you don't have or never gather.

What I am imagining based on what you said before is that you gather a number of users from google/amazon/roku and send that information to GraceNote. That seems like collecting data and sharing it with a 3rd party.

That is just so that they know how many users use emby guide data and can bill us appropriately.

[tedfroop21 39]

5 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

You can do that, so I'm sure it skews their data a bit... but it's also a pretty frustrating, insecure process to do remotely, that Plex themselves discourage.  Ultimately they want everyone accessing a Plex share to have a Plex account.  That's the framework they've primarily designed the software around.

Yeah,  when they introduced their "we will search all the streaming and tv sites to find when and where that show is on"  it was pretty obvious why..........

That was when I tried Jellyfin very briefly,  and then moved to Emby, 

Plex makes money selling you information.  Not personally identifying but none the less,  they have your personally identifying watch information somewhere.....

3 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, maybe you can clarify. I don't see how you can send information to GraceNote you don't have or never gather.

Ummmm......count the number of paid licences that month?

[ebr 14947]

1 minute ago, lukeoslavia said:

What I am imagining based on what you said before is that you gather a number of users from google/amazon/roku and send that information to GraceNote.

Well, you are imagining it because I never said that.  What I said is we have to tell GN how many users of the live TV guide data we have.  That has nothing to do with apps, app usage or the stores.  Someone else mentioned that those stores do collect telemetry and that is spelled out in those stores' respective policies.  Your "opt out" of that is to not use the store.

3 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

That seems like collecting data and sharing it with a 3rd party.

Sending a number like "100" to someone does not meet the definition of personally identifiable data.  But, everything that could possibly be collected is actually spelled out in our privacy policy.  It is actually much more broad than anything we actually do because we also provide this forum and it has all kinds of potential data so we have to cover all of that in our official policy. It is readily available on our web site.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ebr said:

Well, you are imagining it because I never said that.  What I said is we have to tell GN how many users of the live TV guide data we have.  That has nothing to do with apps, app usage or the stores.  Someone else mentioned that those stores do collect telemetry and that is spelled out in those stores' respective policies.  Your "opt out" of that is to not use the store.

Sending a number like "100" to someone does not meet the definition of personally identifiable data.  But, everything that could possibly be collected is actually spelled out in our privacy policy.  It is actually much more broad than anything we actually do because we also provide this forum and it has all kinds of potential data so we have to cover all of that in our official policy. It is readily available on our web site.

Ok I did misread that, I was considering what luke had said before, and what you had said in the thread from 2016.

So you are collecting the information about how many people use the gracenote data for live tv yourselves, which is still collecting data. I don't believe your privacy policy says anything about that, or that you share it with a 3rd party, if you are referring to the one luke had linked.

Again, the point is, spell out what you are collecting, how you use it, who you share it with, and if possible give people the option to not share the information.

[ebr 14947]

1 minute ago, lukeoslavia said:

I don't believe your privacy policy says anything about that

Please re-read it.  It is very comprehensive.  In fact, way more than what we actually do but I explained that above as well.

[Damien_ 27]

17 minutes ago, lukeoslavia said:

You're giving brain damage, im just going to leave it at that with you. You clearly are biased and have no clue how Plex works, good luck in your future endeavors.

Good call bailing out of this conversation. I would too.

It's funny, I'm the one biased and the irony is clearly lost on you as 1) you only have to look at your recent history and 2) why visit a forum for a product you no longer use if your so objective?

I actively run both servers, Plex since is was ported from XBMC and had to buy a Mac mini to run it. I dont claim to be an expert in either, but I certainly know enough that there was no way I couldn't address your diatribe of;  let's say inaccurate statements in your response to me.