Stuttering with a 4K HDR remux on direct play

May 2, 2020

Hello,

First of all, I would to apologize if I posted this topic at the wrong community, but as of right now the LG webOS app is the only place I can reproduce this type of files. Also English is not my first language, so I'll try my best to explain the situation.

I have an old Windows laptop working as a NAS connected via ethernet to a router, to which my LG B9 is connected also using ethernet cable. I'm using the lastest Emby app on the TV and the server is up-to-date.

I am having problems watching 4K HDR remux files stutter free. I tried tonight and it started fine but after a few minutes the stuttering appeared, and it persisted during the whole duration of the movie. I recorded a 20s clip that shows the problem three times.

https://youtu.be/9abw44sVW24

It looks like a frame drop in a videogame, the picture freezes and the audio drops very quickly and then come back to normal. I tried to find a pattern, but it seemed random. This is not the first time it happened. The last time the stuttering was way more severe, hanging for seconds, so I ended up just playing the movie locally through USB. It looked more like buffering than stuttering.

Could the bitrate be too high, even for ethernet? 1080p works great so far.

I would appreciate any help.

Best,

embyserver.txt

May 2, 2020

Hi, I can't tell much from the log. If there is a remux or transcode log file on the server can you please attach it?

I'm going to take a guess here, but if this is a 4K file and it is remuxing/Direct Streaming (probably due to a TrueHD audio track) then this is a common issue. If you have an AC3 or other audio track then please try selecting it before playback starts and see if that improves the issue.

May 2, 2020

Hi, I can't tell much from the log. If there is a remux or transcode log file on the server can you please attach it?

I'm going to take a guess here, but if this is a 4K file and it is remuxing/Direct Streaming (probably due to a TrueHD audio track) then this is a common issue. If you have an AC3 or other audio track then please try selecting it before playback starts and see if that improves the issue.

These are the only logs I see. Is there an option to turn on the remux or trancode log files?

I just checked, both movies uses DTS-HD MA. But isn't the regular DTS core embedded to MA version? Is the stuttering from extracting that? I don't see a transcode log.

I'm going to try and find a file with AC3 to test tonight and see if the issue persists.

Thank you,

May 2, 2020

Can you attach the two ffmpeg-transcode logs? Just have a quick look at the two of these yourself and please confirm at the top of them that this is for the movie you are trying to play. Thanks

May 3, 2020

Can you attach the two ffmpeg-transcode logs? Just have a quick look at the two of these yourself and please confirm at the top of them that this is for the movie you are trying to play. Thanks

These are from a different file, a 4K SDR TV show I was trying to watch on my tablet.

I just tried watching a 4K HDR AC3 movie and it stuttered around the 20min mark. During a particular scene, around 25min mark, the stuttering occurred two more times, and I got the second freeze on camera:

https://youtu.be/0RxuHF4-kBI

embyserver.txt

Edited May 3, 2020 by caioeverton

May 3, 2020

Are you using a wired or wireless network?

May 3, 2020

Are you using a wired or wireless network?

@@SamES Wired.

May 3, 2020

Can you test it with a wireless connection? For some reason the LG LAN ports seem to have issues with high bitrate content and many user shave had better success over wireless.

Can you please post the media info for this file?

It is quite possible that the old Windows laptop can't keep up. Are the files on the internal drive, or are they on a USB attached drive?

May 3, 2020

Remember that LG only use a 100Mbit/sec interface - meaning that on a 4K REMUX, if you get a PEAK bitrate of over ~90 Mbit/sec then the interface becomes the bottleneck and you get the pause and no buffering appears to take place to smooth things out ..

I've tested this many times and even if the 'average' bitrate on a REMUX is say 60/70 Mbit/sec, the PEAK may be much higher thus causing the issues, especially just after scene changes or fast action scenes (ie higher bitrate).

Edited May 3, 2020 by rbjtech

May 3, 2020

Can you test it with a wireless connection? For some reason the LG LAN ports seem to have issues with high bitrate content and many user shave had better success over wireless.

Can you please post the media info for this file?

It is quite possible that the old Windows laptop can't keep up. Are the files on the internal drive, or are they on a USB attached drive?

I tried trough Wi-fi but it buffers/stutters even more:

https://youtu.be/oqAsgRqS3PM

The first movie was Apollo 11 DTS-HD MA in a external HDD plugged into the laptop trough USB 3.0.

General

Unique ID : 133644056109111636828279699027988609883 (0x648AE8B146362A04F8747E1CCB387B5B)

Complete name : \\NASA\Disco USB 6tb\01. FILMES\Apollo 11 (2019)\Apollo.11.2019.2160P.UHD.BluRay.REMUX.HDR10.HEVC.DOLBY.DTS-HD MA 5.1-OMEGA.mkv

Format : Matroska

Format version : Version 2

File size : 52.6 GiB

Duration : 1 h 37 min

Overall bit rate mode : Variable

Overall bit rate : 77.0 Mb/s

Encoded date : UTC 2019-12-03 21:48:13

Writing application : MakeMKV v1.14.2 win(x64-release)

Writing library : libmakemkv v1.14.2 (1.3.5/1.4.7) win(x64-release)

Video

ID : 1

ID in the original source m : 4113 (0x1011)

Format : HEVC

Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding

Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High

HDR format : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC

Duration : 1 h 32 min

Bit rate : 79.0 Mb/s

Width : 3 840 pixels

Height : 2 160 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)

Bit depth : 10 bits

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.397

Stream size : 51.3 GiB (98%)

Writing library : ATEME Titan File 3.8.22 (4.8.22.4)

Language : English

Default : No

Forced : No

Color range : Limited

Color primaries : BT.2020

Transfer characteristics : PQ

Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant

Mastering display color pri : BT.2020

Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

Maximum Content Light Level : 1000 cd/m2

Maximum Frame-Average Light : 300 cd/m2

Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio

ID : 2

ID in the original source m : 4352 (0x1100)

Format : DTS XLL

Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems

Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio

Codec ID : A_DTS

Duration : 1 h 37 min

Bit rate mode : Variable

Bit rate : 1 847 kb/s

Channel(s) : 6 channels

Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE

Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz

Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)

Bit depth : 16 bits

Compression mode : Lossless

Stream size : 1.26 GiB (2%)

Title : Surround 5.1

Language : English

Default : Yes

Forced : No

Original source medium : Blu-ray

Text

ID : 3

ID in the original source m : 4768 (0x12A0)

Format : PGS

Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS

Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs

Duration : 1 h 31 min

Bit rate : 68.7 kb/s

Count of elements : 2738

Stream size : 45.2 MiB (0%)

Language : English

Default : No

Forced : No

Original source medium : Blu-ray

Menu

00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01

00:07:16.352 : en:Chapter 02

00:14:33.914 : en:Chapter 03

00:22:30.098 : en:Chapter 04

00:29:19.591 : en:Chapter 05

00:35:45.059 : en:Chapter 06

00:43:36.238 : en:Chapter 07

00:52:15.715 : en:Chapter 08

01:02:03.010 : en:Chapter 09

01:12:37.478 : en:Chapter 10

01:20:29.783 : en:Chapter 11

01:29:31.199 : en:Chapter 12

The second movie was First Man using AC3 in the internal HDD of the laptop:

General

Complete name : \\NASA\Disco Interno\Filmes\First Man 2018 2160p UHD EAC3 DoVi - SumVision.mp4

Format : MPEG-4

Format profile : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID : mp42 (mp42/dby1/isom)

File size : 64.3 GiB

Duration : 2 h 20 min

Overall bit rate : 65.3 Mb/s

Encoded date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Tagged date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Video #1

ID : 1

Format : HEVC

Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding

Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High

HDR format : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

Codec ID : hev1

Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding

Duration : 2 h 20 min

Bit rate : 57.1 Mb/s

Width : 3 840 pixels

Height : 2 160 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)

Bit depth : 10 bits

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.287

Stream size : 56.3 GiB (88%)

Default : No

Encoded date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Tagged date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Color range : Limited

Color primaries : BT.2020

Transfer characteristics : PQ

Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant

Mastering display color pri : Display P3

Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

Maximum Content Light Level : 1000 cd/m2

Maximum Frame-Average Light : 285 cd/m2

Codec configuration box : hvcC

Video #2

ID : 2

Format : HEVC

Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding

Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High

HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, EL+RPU / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

Codec ID : dvhe

Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding with Dolby Vision

Duration : 2 h 20 min

Bit rate : 6 606 kb/s

Width : 1 920 pixels

Height : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)

Bit depth : 10 bits

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.133

Stream size : 6.51 GiB (10%)

Default : No

Encoded date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Tagged date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Color range : Limited

Color primaries : BT.2020

Transfer characteristics : PQ

Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant

Mastering display color pri : Display P3

Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

Codec configuration box : hvcC+dvcC

Audio

ID : 3

Format : E-AC-3

Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3

Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus

Codec ID : ac-3

Duration : 2 h 20 min

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s) : 6 channels

Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs

Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz

Frame rate : 62.500 FPS (768 SPF)

Compression mode : Lossy

Stream size : 1.51 GiB (2%)

Language : English

Service kind : Complete Main

Default : No

Encoded date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

Tagged date : UTC 2019-02-06 19:35:02

May 3, 2020

Remember that LG only use a 100Mbit/sec interface - meaning that on a 4K REMUX, if you get a PEAK bitrate of over ~90 Mbit/sec then the interface becomes the bottleneck and you get the pause and no buffering appears to take place to smooth things out ..

I've tested this many times and even if the 'average' bitrate on a REMUX is say 60/70 Mbit/sec, the PEAK may be much higher thus causing the issues, especially just after scene changes or fast action scenes (ie higher bitrate).

That was my initial thought, and it would explain my problems with First Man, where I got maybe 20 freezes during the whole movie, but it would explain why Apollo 11 had 4 or 5 freezes in a minute during the whole thing, considering scenes with almost no movement and very little picture complexity in it.

May 4, 2020

I also am experiencing the exact stuttering issue as the OP. I am using a Synology 918+ NAS to stream over my wireless network to my LG65B7A.

These are 4K HDR Remux (10-bit) files also.

I isolated this to the Emby app as I can play these files without any stuttering through the LG's Picture & Video app through the Synology DLNA media server.

Both both files are playing in full 4K HDR as the HDR icon at the top right of screen appears right on initial playback.

I prefer the Emby layout vs the LG app and I don't have to manually re-index my media folder on my Synology because of a bug they have yet to fix.

May 5, 2020

Something you can both confirm, are you using 2.4 or 5GHz for wireless?

Assuming 5GHz, what WiFi channel are you using? Try channel 48 or 153. You need to stay away from the very low, very high and the mid channels on 5GHz

@@bluestang, 4K HDR remux will nearly always be a problem. @@caioeverton, DirectPlay should fine at those bitrates with a very good WiFi network connection.

May 5, 2020

Something you can both confirm, are you using 2.4 or 5GHz for wireless?

Assuming 5GHz, what WiFi channel are you using? Try channel 48 or 153. You need to stay away from the very low, very high and the mid channels on 5GHz

@@bluestang, 4K HDR remux will nearly always be a problem. @@caioeverton, DirectPlay should fine at those bitrates with a very good WiFi network connection.

I am on 5 Ghz wifi, using the Synology rt2600ac router. I switched to channel 48 and 153 with the same stuttering result.

However, I did find out what the issue is and the difference between the Emby and LG Picture & Video apps.

The LG Picture & Video app is using the secondary 5.1 Dolby audio track, and not the Dolby Atmos track.

When I realized this, I tested out the Emby app and selected the same 5.1 Dolby track instead of the default Atmos one and I did not experience any stutters.

So my issue is resolved for now but does Emby have the ability to pass through the Atmos track to a capable reciever?

Edited May 5, 2020 by bluestang

May 5, 2020

So my issue is resolved for now but does Emby have the ability to pass through the Atmos track to a capable reciever?

Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) with Atmos - yes

True-HD with Atmos - no

There are a few recent threads on this - so have a search and you'll find all the limitations and reasons why.

May 5, 2020

*Update* - I have been testing the remux issue on my living room tv which is an LG B7. Playing the Atmos True-HD track caused stuttering that I would not classify as severe but certainly not enjoyable.

So I just tested the same remux video on my LG C9 in my bedroom and no stutters with the Atmos True-HD track.

The C9 is capable of passing through True-HD Atmos via eARC - "Audio Passthrough" specs comparison (B7 vs C9) - https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/lg-b7a-vs-lg-c9/541/802?usage=7318&threshold=0.1

Perhaps a sticky of some sorts is needed to clarify the issue with older LG TVs? I'm not sure that this can be fixed through software but have the Emby developers raised the issue with LG re: the older models supporting True-HD Atmos via eARC?

May 5, 2020

Something you can both confirm, are you using 2.4 or 5GHz for wireless?

Assuming 5GHz, what WiFi channel are you using? Try channel 48 or 153. You need to stay away from the very low, very high and the mid channels on 5GHz

@@bluestang, 4K HDR remux will nearly always be a problem. @@caioeverton, DirectPlay should fine at those bitrates with a very good WiFi network connection.

I tried jumping to points on a movie and those settings seemed to be better for Wi-fi. But I have to watch a whole thing to be sure.

I also watched 10min of Apollo 11 and the same high bitrate scene of First Man again on Plex through Ethernet and neither stuttered, so I haven't been able to isolate the problem yet.

*Update* - I have been testing the remux issue on my living room tv which is an LG B7. Playing the Atmos True-HD track caused stuttering that I would not classify as severe but certainly not enjoyable.

So I just tested the same remux video on my LG C9 in my bedroom and no stutters with the Atmos True-HD track.

The C9 is capable of passing through True-HD Atmos via eARC - "Audio Passthrough" specs comparison (B7 vs C9) - https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/lg-b7a-vs-lg-c9/541/802?usage=7318&threshold=0.1

Perhaps a sticky of some sorts is needed to clarify the issue with older LG TVs? I'm not sure that this can be fixed through software but have the Emby developers raised the issue with LG re: the older models supporting True-HD Atmos via eARC?

But are you sure you're getting the Dolby TrueHD track using Emby bitstreamed to you, and not down converted? As far as I know, lossless audio with eARC works when using HDMI, but not on the apps. I tried a bunch of different files on the native LG player and the only way to get Atmos on the apps is pair it to a lossy Dolby Digital+ track.

May 6, 2020

I tried jumping to points on a movie and those settings seemed to be better for Wi-fi. But I have to watch a whole thing to be sure.

I also watched 10min of Apollo 11 and the same high bitrate scene of First Man again on Plex through Ethernet and neither stuttered, so I haven't been able to isolate the problem yet.

But are you sure you're getting the Dolby TrueHD track using Emby bitstreamed to you, and not down converted? As far as I know, lossless audio with eARC works when using HDMI, but not on the apps. I tried a bunch of different files on the native LG player and the only way to get Atmos on the apps is pair it to a lossy Dolby Digital+ track.

Funny that you ask because I went back and checked the logs and it appears that the C9 is either down-converting or using the 5.1 track instead. I can see that the log says the output is in 5.1 so I am assuming but I am not experienced in what it all means exactly.

I am attaching my log for reference and someone with experience can tell me what is happening.

The problem is clear though, my newer C9 can play the file just fine, my B7 cannot.

ffmpeg-remux-7b33b44f-d87e-4ee2-8582-f89e9983d60a_1.txt

May 6, 2020

A sticky is a good idea here - I made the same suggestion earlier - If I have time I'll put one together and if the Mods like it, they can post.

True-HD (with or without Atmos) or DTS-HD (with or without DTS:X) currently with LG's native media player - cannot be passed from the TV (via HDMI) to a Receiver via the eARC interface on any of their TV's to the best of my knowledge. I am not 100% on the CX (C10). I believe this is more of a WebOS limitation (software/firmware) rather than hardware.

As the whole point of eARC is obviously to return Audio back down to other devices, having eARC hardware at this point in time is not gaining you anything. There may of course be other TV Apps that can use this - but as Emby/Plex LG Apps just use the LG player as it's core, then currently using any form of uncompressed Audio is not an option.

The only option for playing HD Audio is to bypass eARC entirely, ie play the media via an external player (Nvidia Shield for example) plugged into an AV Receiver, with the TV just acting as a monitor. I can't confirm, but I also believe you can passthough the HD Audio direct to to the TV's speakers should you wish to without the need for the AV Receiver.

Edited May 6, 2020 by rbjtech

May 6, 2020

Funny that you ask because I went back and checked the logs and it appears that the C9 is either down-converting or using the 5.1 track instead. I can see that the log says the output is in 5.1 so I am assuming but I am not experienced in what it all means exactly.

I am attaching my log for reference and someone with experience can tell me what is happening.

The problem is clear though, my newer C9 can play the file just fine, my B7 cannot.

20:41:00.522 Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (truehd (native) -> ac3 (native))

Emby is downconverting the trueHD (7.1) to AC3 (5.1) - sometimes this causes issues, other times it plays fine. On my C8 for example, I've never experienced an issue with this, although I purposely select the alternative non-HD track before I play as this will almost certainly be better quality than an on-the-fly conversion using ffmpeg anyway.

May 6, 2020

The LG Picture & Video app is using the secondary 5.1 Dolby audio track, and not the Dolby Atmos track.

When I realized this, I tested out the Emby app and selected the same 5.1 Dolby track instead of the default Atmos one and I did not experience any stutters.

So my issue is resolved for now but does Emby have the ability to pass through the Atmos track to a capable reciever?

This is a very common issue, and TrueHD on 4K remuxes is nearly always the problem. As you have discovered, the internal app will automatically select the next audio track if you select TrueHD (and it won't tell you about it!).

In fact, if you turn off the user option on the server to 'Allow audio playback that requires transcoding', then the LG TV will do the same thing to the Emby client. Emby will report that it is DirectPlaying the TrueHD track but the TV has silently switched to the next track. This has caught out a few people who insist that TrueHD DirectPlays. Try it with a file that has one TrueHD track and track in another format such as AC3 that is either in another language or a commentary track to prove this.

No, Emby does not have the ability to pass through the Atmos track to a capable receiver. This is a limitation of the TV (or actually a feature that LG has not provided to 3rd party apps)

May 6, 2020

*Update* - I have been testing the remux issue on my living room tv which is an LG B7. Playing the Atmos True-HD track caused stuttering that I would not classify as severe but certainly not enjoyable.

So I just tested the same remux video on my LG C9 in my bedroom and no stutters with the Atmos True-HD track.

The C9 is capable of passing through True-HD Atmos via eARC - "Audio Passthrough" specs comparison (B7 vs C9) - https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/lg-b7a-vs-lg-c9/541/802?usage=7318&threshold=0.1

Perhaps a sticky of some sorts is needed to clarify the issue with older LG TVs? I'm not sure that this can be fixed through software but have the Emby developers raised the issue with LG re: the older models supporting True-HD Atmos via eARC?

As per the comment from @@caioeverton, and my comments in the previous post, are your really certain that you are getting the lossless TrueHD being played? I'm almost certain that it is not. See also my comments in the previous post, re: support for 3rd party apps, Atmos over eARC is not supported in this case

Edited May 6, 2020 by SamES

May 6, 2020

And I must say, i am waiting for the day when someone proves that TrueHD atmos over eARC does work, then I can enable this, but until then....

May 6, 2020

Thanks for the replies @@rbjtech and @@SamES. I’m good with the limitation on the issue and can enjoy the app as is.

Edited May 6, 2020 by bluestang

May 6, 2020

And I must say, i am waiting for the day when someone proves that TrueHD atmos over eARC does work, then I can enable this, but until then....

@@SamES - Q2 2020 according to the LG Forums (ie soon) - but even that is sketchy on what this will actually fix. There are many disgruntled LG C9 and CX users out there ..

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Stuttering with a 4K HDR remux on direct play

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