Jump to content
speedingcheetah

Theater/Win app/Web Playback - Which is best quality?

Recommended Posts

Guest asrequested

I'm glad you found something that works for you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speedingcheetah

Does the Android player app use MPV?

Would that support the same .conf commands?

If so, where would the .conf go?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

You mean the Android TV app? That's a bit tricky. mpv for Android is much less developed. You can do it if you side load mpv onto the device as an external player and used a keyboard to enter text in the mpv.conf section. I don't suggest doing that, though.

Edited by Doofus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speedingcheetah

You mean the Android TV app? That's a bit tricky. mpv for Android is much less developed. You can do it if you side load mpv onto the device, and used a keyboard to enter text in the mpv.conf section. I don't suggest doing that, though.

No. not tv. The phone app. Or are they the same ting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

No. not tv. The phone app. Or are they the same ting?

 

Same situation, but easier to do. You'd have to use it as external player. It has a built in mpv.conf that you can use, but it's much more limited than the Windows build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speedingcheetah

Just gotta say...Theater (mpv) IS much better than the other options.

Now that I have been able to learn how mpv works, with the conf and commands. 

Glad the thread got me to take the time to sit down and mess with it...and be directed to proper documentation.

(Still would be nice to have standalone GUI program one could just load up where it has all the possible options u can set, and one can just set what they want and it will auto make a .conf (maybe someone has done that...havnt really looked).)

I even have switched for local file playback on my PC from MPC-HC (klite codec pack) to the most recent version of MPV and manged to set options to make it look just as good picture wise. It is the minimalist player i want.

 

I was using the stock HDHomeRun software for Live TV playback as it looked the best, but now MPV based Theater looks much better.

Theater just needs a way to easy browse the "guide" for other channels, while watching Live TV...(like HDHR's scrolling banner guide), then would be perfect.

 

Also, seems Theater for Linux is broken. Just a black screen with audio. Mentioned in other thread. 

I am hoping to fully switch over to Linux Mint in the future...so hope that gets fixed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

The problem with the settings being in the UI is that the way mpv/ffmpeg functions is a lot of settings/options conflict with each other, which can cause them to be disabled, with no notification. I noticed a lot of people enabling some things and they weren't realizing that it actually wasn't working. There was too much overlap. So we requested them to be pulled. I try as best I can to help others who want more than they have in the UI. Then I can explain why and what things do. mpv has all the options of ffmpeg plus a bunch of its own. There's a mountain of possible configurations. Most of the people who want them are advanced users, and they can easily write a small text file and apply all the options that they want. Especially now that Luke has given us an option to disable hwdec in the UI, which allows us to make different hwdec profiles in the mpv.conf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speedingcheetah

The problem with the settings being in the UI is that the way mpv/ffmpeg functions is a lot of settings/options conflict with each other, which can cause them to be disabled, with no notification. I noticed a lot of people enabling some things and they weren't realizing that it actually wasn't working. There was too much overlap. So we requested them to be pulled. I try as best I can to help others who want more than they have in the UI. Then I can explain why and what things do. mpv has all the options of ffmpeg plus a bunch of its own. There's a mountain of possible configurations. Most of the people who want them are advanced users, and they can easily write a small text file and apply all the options that they want. Especially now that Luke has given us an option to disable hwdec in the UI, which allows us to make different hwdec profiles in the mpv.conf.

Basic settings like what was before to set the scalers...i didnt see an issue with, and settings that would conflict with each other could just be noted in the UI next to it.

But i am meaning a standalone program to make a .conf....independent of Emby.

 

There already can be found some decent frontends for MPV I have found in the Software Managers in various linux distros.

SMplayer is one, that has gui for many of the available options for MPV...and if u do enable conflicting ones, it just causes mpv to crash and it pops up an error.

 

No doubt it would take alot of work to make a good standalone MPV.conf creator program....or manager, that would store multiple pre-setup profiles user can easy switch to if they want....like i had for MPC-HC, one for normal video, and one for anime. those were .reg settings though.  For native mpv player on my system, I am just copying the .conf over to the shortcut folder and overwriting the conf when i want to change settings.  But yea...most folks who want or even know of MPV...are ones that dont mind manualy creating and tweaking things...i was just trying to avoid such, and the last time I tried to get things to work..had no success.

Edited by speedingcheetah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jdiesel

Basic settings like what was before to set the scalers...i didnt see an issue with, and settings that would conflict with each other could just be noted in the UI next to it.

But i am meaning a standalone program to make a .conf....independent of Emby.

 

There already can be found some decent frontends for MPV I have found in the Software Managers in various linux distros.

SMplayer is one, that has gui for many of the available options for MPV...and if u do enable conflicting ones, it just causes mpv to crash and it pops up an error.

 

No doubt it would take alot of work to make a good standalone MPV.conf creator program....or manager, that would store multiple pre-setup profiles user can easy switch to if they want....like i had for MPC-HC, one for normal video, and one for anime. those were .reg settings though. For native mpv player on my system, I am just copying the .conf over to the shortcut folder and overwriting the conf when i want to change settings. But yea...most folks who want or even know of MPV...are ones that dont mind manualy creating and tweaking things...i was just trying to avoid such, and the last time I tried to get things to work..had no success.

I've found this editor to make things a little easier.

 

https://glowmpv.github.io/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speedingcheetah

That's when you can use auto-profiles. I use them, for different content. And as for a standalone mpv with a UI. Here's one

 

https://mpv-net.github.io/mpv.net-web-site/

 

 

I've found this editor to make things a little easier.

 

https://glowmpv.github.io/

 

well....these would have been helpful to have a week ago....lolz!

 

Nice that there is a AIO MPV player...that i will certainly recommend over VLC now. Thanks for that find!

That reminds me of MPC-BE.

Though i am fine with just the vanilla MPV from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpv-player-windows/files/

Has this one seems to the updated very often.

 

MPV.net also puts its .conf in appdata/roaming/mpv...which Emby Theater also reads....I have different .conf for E.T. and local system player.

E.T .conf works if u put it into the inner mpv folder in the Emby program folder, and the installed standalone mpv player .conf works in the same dir of the .exe. so they each read thier own .conf.

The appdata/romaing/mpv seems to override any other .conf for any mpv instance.

 

And yea, i figured some else had probably made a conf builder program...like I had said, i hadn't really looked that hard.

 

Though, both of those are for Windows....i hope to soon move over to Linux as my main OS.

Been working on finding Linux versions or alternatives to all the things I use in Win.

Windows always does 2 things best than the others....games and media. and are the hardest to get the same level of quality and usability on linux.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

You need to be careful not to have multiple mpv.conf files. mpv will read them all, unless to make them portable.

Also, the mpv git master builds later than March 10th, will give you trouble with Live TV in Theater. An element has been removed that Luke relies on. There is a PR for it to be reintroduced, but that hasn't been approved, yet.

And if you're interested, here's my mpv.conf, for this week :)

gpu-api=auto
hwdec=d3d11va-copy
opengl-pbo
scale=ewa_lanczossharp
icc-profile=C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma.icc
icc-contrast=100000
deband
saturation=0
brightness=0
contrast=0
deinterlace=no

hwdec-codecs=all

demuxer-lavf-analyzeduration=3

force-seekable=yes

sub-forced-only
sub-create-cc-track=yes
sub-pos=90
sub-ass-override=no

audio-stream-silence=yes
audio-device=wasapi/marantz-AVR (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
audio-exclusive=yes

log-file="D:\mpv logs\Theater mpv log.txt"

[Convert to AC3]
profile-desc=cond:p["audio-codec-name"]=="aac" or p["audio-codec-name"]=="mp3"
af=lavcac3enc=yes:640:2

[Interlaced]
profile-desc=cond:p["video-frame-info/interlaced"]
deinterlace=yes

[720p]
profile-desc=cond:p["video-params/w"]==1280
deinterlace=no

[HDR]
profile-desc=cond:p["video-params/primaries"]=="bt.2020"
hdr-compute-peak=no
tone-mapping=reinhard
tone-mapping-param=0.24
tone-mapping-desaturate=1.5
icc-profile=C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma.icc
hwdec=d3d11va
opengl-pbo
scale=ewa_lanczossharp
deinterlace=no
deband=no
contrast=0
saturation=0
brightness=0
Edited by Doofus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

Theater with mpv, every time.

 

what about if you're interested in streaming a lot of hdr, doesn't mpv have probs with tone mapping (per github threads)? if so, would an external player with madvr (set to hdr pass through) be a better option, as per the setup you outlined in your very helpful tutorial on the subject?

 

if that would be a better option, after following your set up steps is it possible to then go into madvr settings and turn everything off except for hdr pass through? so madvr is doing absolutely nothing (zero rendering) except for passing through hdr? or when you install madvr is absolutely everything turned off by default?

 

thanks!

Edited by mrfaulk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

There is no HDR only setting for external players. You'd have to enable it for all videos. I have requested it though, and Luke said it was a good idea. As for mpv, I've got a whole thread on HDR tone mapping, and I've got it pretty damn close to pass through.

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/69872-hdr-tone-mapping-with-mpv/page-10

Edited by Doofus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

There is no HDR only setting for external players. You'd have to enable it for all videos. I have requested it though, and Luke said it was a good idea. As for mpv, I've got a whole thread on HDR tone mapping, and I've got it pretty damn close to pass through.

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/69872-hdr-tone-mapping-with-mpv/page-10

 

if your response is to my post i'm not sure i follow?

 

i was asking about madvr only and its hdr pass through option.... is it possible to set all madvr setting set to "off" except for hdr pass through? or is madvr designed to do at least some rendering when launched, a minimum amount, which can't be changed, set lower, or tuned off?

 

re the future possibility of setting an external player to hdr only, sounds interesting, so how would that work exactly? would all sdr be tone mapped to hdr?

 

looking forward to reading your mpv thread.... from what i've read at github, plex forum, avsforum and elsewhere, getting mpv to handle hdr correctly has been a huge wish list item for quite a while, and because it apparently doesn't handle it correctly it's been a real deal breaker for more than a few who have opted to move on to other player options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

if your response is to my post i'm not sure i follow?

 

i was asking about madvr only and its hdr pass through option.... is it possible to set all madvr setting set to "off" except for hdr pass through? or is madvr designed to do at least some rendering when launched, a minimum amount, which can't be changed, set lower, or tuned off?

 

re the future possibility of setting an external player to hdr only, sounds interesting, so how would that work exactly? would all sdr be tone mapped to hdr?

 

looking forward to reading your mpv thread.... from what i've read at github, plex forum, avsforum and elsewhere, getting mpv to handle hdr correctly has been a huge wish list item for quite a while, and because it apparently doesn't handle it correctly it's been a real deal breaker for more than a few who have opted to move on to other player options.

 

I think I understand your quandary, now. You seem to be assuming that all media is handled the same way? They aren't. Both in madVR and mpv, they are handled independently. SDR isn't necessarily converted to HDR. The most common use for madVR is for your display to be generally in SDR, and when HDR is presented, it then switches the display to HDR10 and the metadata is passed directly to the display for rendering. But if you run Windows in HDR10 (this is what I do), then you will always be in Wide Color Gamut and have brighter LEDs. Then the SDR colorspace will be applied to the WCG, and if not applied correctly you will have over saturation. I'm not sure how madVR handles that. In mpv, I use an icc so that mpv maps the colors, correctly. I'm not very experienced with all the madVR options, I've chosen to focus on mpv.

 

Here's an example of HDR passthrough compared to how I have mpv configured.

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/69872-hdr-tone-mapping-with-mpv/?p=718358

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

I think I understand your quandary, now. You seem to be assuming that all media is handled the same way?

 

actually i was asking about madvr pass through because i have a lumagen pro and was told the best approach is to pass hdr metadata to it directly and let it handle dithering and tone mapping, so i wanted to know if i could just get pass through without any of madvr's other processing (which tends to hit my relatively underpowered nuc)... further, i was told madvr was the only way to go if that was my intent, and the most popular approach among those that use lumagens, and that mpv (with plex or emby) won't do it, but instead tries to handle hdr on its own, and not very well (according to many at the plex forum, github, avsforum, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

I have no experience with Lumagens, but yes, mpv does all it's own tone mapping and does not pass any metadata. So if you want the lumagen to handle the metadata, then you'll need to use a player that does. MadVR obviously does that. And if you run Windows in HDR10, you can also use VLC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

I have no experience with Lumagens, but yes, mpv does all it's own tone mapping and does not pass any metadata. So if you want the lumagen to handle the metadata, then you'll need to use a player that does. MadVR obviously does that. And if you run Windows in HDR10, you can also use VLC.

 

which brings us back to my original question - in madvr settings is it possible to turn everything off except for hdr pass through? so madvr is doing absolutely nothing (zero rendering, etc.) except for passing through hdr? or will madvr always do some processing even if pass trough is selected? i ask because i've played with madvr in the past and even very modest settings can apparently give my i7 four-core "bean canyon" nuc too much to think about.

 

btw, i'm not married to the lumagen doing the hdr tone mapping, it's off by default, i use the  lumagen for quite a few other things, so if mpv can handle the job well i would rather go that route with windows 10 always in hdr more. also, thanks for your very helpful responses!

Edited by mrfaulk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

It still has to render the actual video, after it's decoded by the player you're using. I imagine you're using 4k videos? That's what takes the most effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

You should probably test each scenario and see which one gives the best result. But if decoding 4k 10bit media is your concern, you'll want good hardware acceleration for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

You should probably test each scenario and see which one gives the best result. But if decoding 4k 10bit media is your concern, you'll want good hardware acceleration for that.

 

if using madvr, right? but mpv is a bit gentler with the settings you've made in your tone mapping thread? and yes, 4k stuff... thanks for your help!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

if using madvr, right? but mpv is a bit gentler with the settings you've made in your tone mapping thread? and yes, 4k stuff... thanks for your help!

The tone mapping isn't the issue, it's decoding such a big stream. With or without HDR, 4k HEVC is a lot to decode. The modern GPUs handle it very well, but I'm not sure how well your NUC, will. For instance, I have a lot 1080 HDR videos. They are much more easy to decode and play. It doesn't matter what you use to play them. And it's important to remember that madVR isn't a player. It decodes nothing. It is only the renderer after decoding is done by the player you choose. mpv does everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrfaulk

The tone mapping isn't the issue, it's decoding such a big stream. With or without HDR, 4k HEVC is a lot to decode. The modern GPUs handle it very well, but I'm not sure how well your NUC, will. For instance, I have a lot 1080 HDR videos. They are much more easy to decode and play. It doesn't matter what you use to play them. And it's important to remember that madVR isn't a player. It decodes nothing. It is only the renderer after decoding is done by the player you choose. mpv does everything.

 

nope, not worried about tone mapping dragging down my pc or decoding, as i mentioned in previous posts it's madvr's rendering that can give my box pause, even at relatively modest settings, which is why i asked if it's possible to turn everything off in madvr except for hdr pass through, but apparently that's not possible, there's still some rendering/processing going on... re my nuc, absolutely no prob playing 4k/hdr rips with various different players, including mpv, even at 60fps.

 

in your hdr tone mapping thread you mentioned quite a few settings that you've tested and liked, i.e. in the mpv config settings, which is what i was asking about in my last post, if those settings are as gpu hungry as madvr's rendering settings... 4k hdr rips are no prob with plex/emby/mpv and my nuc, but was thinking i might be able to do better with hdr if i went a different route... but of you've nailed hdr/sdr tone mapping with your settings, and they're not a gpu hit like madvr, i would prefer to go in that direction than screwing around madvr pass through to my lumagen, know what i mean?

Edited by mrfaulk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest asrequested

Ok, so we're going around in circles, here. Any HDR involvement doesn't add much to the load. MadVR is just hungry. Its relying on a directshow back end, then builds on top of that. mpv uses ffmpeg and it's own algorithms, for everything. Personally, I think directshow is junk. It's far too tweaky. I've never liked the way you have to use madVR. It's a great renderer, but entirely not worth the trouble it takes to make it work, for so little gain. And it suffers greatly because it has to keep up with all the changes made to Windows. mpv/ffmpeg are less affected by that.

As for my mpv HDR tone mapping configs, the tone mapping does add a little to the processing, but as long as you have decent hardware acceleration, it won't make a noticeable difference. d3d11va-copy is what I would recommend, possiblity just d3d11va.

You really should just test it, and see how it performs in reality.

Edited by Doofus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...