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#41 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:37 PM

if your response is to my post i'm not sure i follow?

 

i was asking about madvr only and its hdr pass through option.... is it possible to set all madvr setting set to "off" except for hdr pass through? or is madvr designed to do at least some rendering when launched, a minimum amount, which can't be changed, set lower, or tuned off?

 

re the future possibility of setting an external player to hdr only, sounds interesting, so how would that work exactly? would all sdr be tone mapped to hdr?

 

looking forward to reading your mpv thread.... from what i've read at github, plex forum, avsforum and elsewhere, getting mpv to handle hdr correctly has been a huge wish list item for quite a while, and because it apparently doesn't handle it correctly it's been a real deal breaker for more than a few who have opted to move on to other player options.

 

I think I understand your quandary, now. You seem to be assuming that all media is handled the same way? They aren't. Both in madVR and mpv, they are handled independently. SDR isn't necessarily converted to HDR. The most common use for madVR is for your display to be generally in SDR, and when HDR is presented, it then switches the display to HDR10 and the metadata is passed directly to the display for rendering. But if you run Windows in HDR10 (this is what I do), then you will always be in Wide Color Gamut and have brighter LEDs. Then the SDR colorspace will be applied to the WCG, and if not applied correctly you will have over saturation. I'm not sure how madVR handles that. In mpv, I use an icc so that mpv maps the colors, correctly. I'm not very experienced with all the madVR options, I've chosen to focus on mpv.

 

Here's an example of HDR passthrough compared to how I have mpv configured.

 

https://emby.media/c...h-mpv/?p=718358



#42 mrfaulk OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 12:42 AM

I think I understand your quandary, now. You seem to be assuming that all media is handled the same way?

 

actually i was asking about madvr pass through because i have a lumagen pro and was told the best approach is to pass hdr metadata to it directly and let it handle dithering and tone mapping, so i wanted to know if i could just get pass through without any of madvr's other processing (which tends to hit my relatively underpowered nuc)... further, i was told madvr was the only way to go if that was my intent, and the most popular approach among those that use lumagens, and that mpv (with plex or emby) won't do it, but instead tries to handle hdr on its own, and not very well (according to many at the plex forum, github, avsforum, etc.).



#43 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 12:56 AM

I have no experience with Lumagens, but yes, mpv does all it's own tone mapping and does not pass any metadata. So if you want the lumagen to handle the metadata, then you'll need to use a player that does. MadVR obviously does that. And if you run Windows in HDR10, you can also use VLC.



#44 mrfaulk OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 01:16 AM

I have no experience with Lumagens, but yes, mpv does all it's own tone mapping and does not pass any metadata. So if you want the lumagen to handle the metadata, then you'll need to use a player that does. MadVR obviously does that. And if you run Windows in HDR10, you can also use VLC.

 

which brings us back to my original question - in madvr settings is it possible to turn everything off except for hdr pass through? so madvr is doing absolutely nothing (zero rendering, etc.) except for passing through hdr? or will madvr always do some processing even if pass trough is selected? i ask because i've played with madvr in the past and even very modest settings can apparently give my i7 four-core "bean canyon" nuc too much to think about.

 

btw, i'm not married to the lumagen doing the hdr tone mapping, it's off by default, i use the  lumagen for quite a few other things, so if mpv can handle the job well i would rather go that route with windows 10 always in hdr more. also, thanks for your very helpful responses!


Edited by mrfaulk, 28 June 2019 - 03:44 AM.


#45 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:22 AM

It still has to render the actual video, after it's decoded by the player you're using. I imagine you're using 4k videos? That's what takes the most effort.

#46 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:30 AM

You should probably test each scenario and see which one gives the best result. But if decoding 4k 10bit media is your concern, you'll want good hardware acceleration for that.

#47 mrfaulk OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 01:36 PM

You should probably test each scenario and see which one gives the best result. But if decoding 4k 10bit media is your concern, you'll want good hardware acceleration for that.

 

if using madvr, right? but mpv is a bit gentler with the settings you've made in your tone mapping thread? and yes, 4k stuff... thanks for your help!



#48 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:10 PM

if using madvr, right? but mpv is a bit gentler with the settings you've made in your tone mapping thread? and yes, 4k stuff... thanks for your help!


The tone mapping isn't the issue, it's decoding such a big stream. With or without HDR, 4k HEVC is a lot to decode. The modern GPUs handle it very well, but I'm not sure how well your NUC, will. For instance, I have a lot 1080 HDR videos. They are much more easy to decode and play. It doesn't matter what you use to play them. And it's important to remember that madVR isn't a player. It decodes nothing. It is only the renderer after decoding is done by the player you choose. mpv does everything.

#49 mrfaulk OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:24 PM

The tone mapping isn't the issue, it's decoding such a big stream. With or without HDR, 4k HEVC is a lot to decode. The modern GPUs handle it very well, but I'm not sure how well your NUC, will. For instance, I have a lot 1080 HDR videos. They are much more easy to decode and play. It doesn't matter what you use to play them. And it's important to remember that madVR isn't a player. It decodes nothing. It is only the renderer after decoding is done by the player you choose. mpv does everything.

 

nope, not worried about tone mapping dragging down my pc or decoding, as i mentioned in previous posts it's madvr's rendering that can give my box pause, even at relatively modest settings, which is why i asked if it's possible to turn everything off in madvr except for hdr pass through, but apparently that's not possible, there's still some rendering/processing going on... re my nuc, absolutely no prob playing 4k/hdr rips with various different players, including mpv, even at 60fps.

 

in your hdr tone mapping thread you mentioned quite a few settings that you've tested and liked, i.e. in the mpv config settings, which is what i was asking about in my last post, if those settings are as gpu hungry as madvr's rendering settings... 4k hdr rips are no prob with plex/emby/mpv and my nuc, but was thinking i might be able to do better with hdr if i went a different route... but of you've nailed hdr/sdr tone mapping with your settings, and they're not a gpu hit like madvr, i would prefer to go in that direction than screwing around madvr pass through to my lumagen, know what i mean?


Edited by mrfaulk, 28 June 2019 - 03:25 PM.


#50 Doofus OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 04:00 PM

Ok, so we're going around in circles, here. Any HDR involvement doesn't add much to the load. MadVR is just hungry. Its relying on a directshow back end, then builds on top of that. mpv uses ffmpeg and it's own algorithms, for everything. Personally, I think directshow is junk. It's far too tweaky. I've never liked the way you have to use madVR. It's a great renderer, but entirely not worth the trouble it takes to make it work, for so little gain. And it suffers greatly because it has to keep up with all the changes made to Windows. mpv/ffmpeg are less affected by that.

As for my mpv HDR tone mapping configs, the tone mapping does add a little to the processing, but as long as you have decent hardware acceleration, it won't make a noticeable difference. d3d11va-copy is what I would recommend, possiblity just d3d11va.

You really should just test it, and see how it performs in reality.


Edited by Doofus, 29 June 2019 - 01:14 AM.


#51 mrfaulk OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:06 AM

Any HDR involvement doesn't add much to the load. MadVR is just hungry. Its relying on a directshow back end, then builds on top of that. mpv uses ffmpeg and it's own algorithms, for everything. Personally, I think directshow is junk. It's far too tweaky. I've never liked the way you have to use madVR. It's a great renderer, but entirely not worth the trouble it takes to make it work, for so little gain. And it suffers greatly because it has to keep up with all the changes made to Windows. mpv/ffmpeg are less affected by that.

As for my mpv HDR tone mapping configs, the tone mapping does add a little to the processing, but as long as you have decent hardware acceleration, it won't make a noticeable difference. d3d11va-copy is what I would recommend, possiblity just d3dllva.

bam! exactly what i looking for, thanks!

 

You really should just test it, and see how it performs in reality.

yes, very much looking forward to trying out your mpv tone mapping, for my particular setup it could be a real winner, just waiting for a couple of new pieces to my av set up to arrive so i thought i would get a head start and ask questions about it, and some questions about madvr which i've tried many times without much success.


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