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Tone-mapping in transcoding HDR for playback on SDR screens??


griffindodd
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Guest asrequested

It may not be that much more intensive, actually, but I've never measured it.  It's getting it worked into the existing filterchain that requires some thought.  I also don't know what impact it would have on hardware encoding or what may need to be changed that way.  Ultimately, it's all math and is probably a lot less intensive than encoding is, so it shouldn't be all that bad.  I just haven't run benchmarks or any other analysis yet to see how much more of a burden it would be quite yet.  I'd also like to check for issues when downscaling, since I'd expect most non-HDR monitors are 1080p (and most HDR sources are 2160p).  I'd hate to introduce aberrations or unnecessary banding because the order of filterchain operations wasn't well thought out.

 

Of course, 10->8 bit tonemapping would be handy for h.264 Hi10p as well (mostly anime), so you'd see benefits with those types of 1080p sources.

 

Ah yeah, of course the output data will be reduced to a quarter of the size with 1080. I hadn't thought about that. And if it going to an 8 bit 4k display, then it would just be tone mapping.

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  • 4 weeks later...
griffindodd

Any feedback or road map plans for this? Since I started this thread I've seen more pop up asking the same questions.

 

Have the devs acknowledged this as a need moving forward?

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Is there a place we can watch the progress on this? I checked over at GitHub in the issues and my search-fu failed.

 

We have our first HDR TV, but still have a couple of SDR TVs and I'm running into this too.

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Guest asrequested

Is there a place we can watch the progress on this? I checked over at GitHub in the issues and my search-fu failed.

 

We have our first HDR TV, but still have a couple of SDR TVs and I'm running into this too.

 

For now, I'd suggest putting your 4k HDR stuff in it's own library. That way you won't run into to problems if watching on an SDR display. Later, you can merge them, if you choose. This is what I have done.

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griffindodd

Is there a place we can watch the progress on this? I checked over at GitHub in the issues and my search-fu failed.

 

We have our first HDR TV, but still have a couple of SDR TVs and I'm running into this too.

Until tone mapping exists in Emby your main options are Kodi with MadVR and DSPlayer or an external box such as an OPPO video processor.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Guest asrequested

Until tone mapping exists in Emby your main options are Kodi with MadVR and DSPlayer or an external box such as an OPPO video processor.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

Or just use Theater for desktop, which will handle everything.

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griffindodd

Or just use Theater for desktop, which will handle everything.

Good to know, didn't realize it had tone mapping

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Guest asrequested

Good to know, didn't realize it had tone mapping

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

That...and more

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For now, I'd suggest putting your 4k HDR stuff in it's own library. That way you won't run into to problems if watching on an SDR display. Later, you can merge them, if you choose. This is what I have done.

 

Right now, it's just movies, so keeping a 1080p SDR and a 4K HDR copy in the same directory lets me "choose what  is best for me" in the Android/Roku apps.

 

Still, I'm starting to see newer 4K encodes that simply have no SDR version anymore.

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Guest asrequested

Right now, it's just movies, so keeping a 1080p SDR and a 4K HDR copy in the same directory lets me "choose what  is best for me" in the Android/Roku apps.

 

Still, I'm starting to see newer 4K encodes that simply have no SDR version anymore.

 

Well, if you're manually choosing which to watch, then you'll be fine. But if transcoding kicks in, it'll choose to use the 4k HDR and then you'll have a struggling server and terrible picture output.

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griffindodd

Well, if you're manually choosing which to watch, then you'll be fine. But if transcoding kicks in, it'll choose to use the 4k HDR and then you'll have a struggling server and terrible picture output.

Not if he keeps his 1080p and 4k content in different libraries, but what a pain to manage and a waste of server space.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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I do two separate libraries, one for 4k and one for everything else, that way I can only give users with the correct hardware and bandwidth access to the 4k library.

 

Seems to work quite well for me but my 1080p versions are only 8Mbps with ac3 audio so they are huge files.

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Guest asrequested

Not if he keeps his 1080p and 4k content in different libraries, but what a pain to manage and a waste of server space.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

That's why I suggested two libraries. It's a choice depending on your usage. If you have users that you know won't be making the choice of which to play, then you'll have problems.

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griffindodd

That's why I suggested two libraries. It's a choice depending on your usage. If you have users that you know won't be making the choice of which to play, then you'll have problems.

I do the 2 library thing for my family outside of my network then just limit their access to the SDR libraries. It's the only usable option for them right now. Of course they don't get access to anything new I get in HDR which is becoming more and more the norm for me

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Guest asrequested

I do the 2 library thing for my family outside of my network then just limit their access to the SDR libraries. It's the only usable option for them right now. Of course they don't get access to anything new I get in HDR which is becoming more and more the norm for me

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

I do the same thing. Once the server can tone map, then things can different.

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  • 4 months later...

I have a 4k HDR TV with an nvidia shield TV and Kodi.  My Emby server is located in a datacenter. 

 

However, I have low bandwidth since I live in a rural area, so all of my 4k HDR content gets transcoded.  This means that even though I have all the required hardware for HDR color, every HDR movie or show looks washed out since the metadata isn't transferred.  It would be great to have the capability to either allow this to occur even with transcoding (preferred), or have the option to tone map if transcoding is happening with HDR content, at least then it wouldn't look washed out.

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may due emby knows if its HDR

 

sample from a HDR movie

 

Video
Title4K HEVC
CodecHEVC
ProfilMain 10
Level153
Auflösung3840x2160
Seitenverhältnis16:9
AnamorphNo
InterlacedNo
Bildrate23,976
Bitrate68.661 kbps
Video rangeHDR
Color primariesbt2020
Farbraumbt2020nc
Color transfersmpte2084
Pixelformatyuv420p10le
Ref Frames1
 
and it probably knows what client to playback ...
or make a switch ;)
 
would be awesome if that could be implemented ... specially as hw transcoding is on its final way
Edited by alturismo
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Tone mapping transcoding is planned for the future. thanks !

 

That's great!  Is there any place we can track the progress of this feature and possibly help implement it?

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  • 1 month later...

Yea it really depends on whether transcoding is happening or not. If it's direct playing then it's subject to how the client-side video player handles it.

 

Tone mapping transcoding is planned for the future. thanks !

 

Is there any way to force tone mapping with the new built-in player for the Apple TV app? My media direct plays, but I do not have a 4K HDR TV yet, so I need the option to be able to tone map direct play content as well.

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Guest asrequested

Is there any way to force tone mapping with the new built-in player for the Apple TV app? My media direct plays, but I do not have a 4K HDR TV yet, so I need the option to be able to tone map direct play content as well.

 

I believe the latest Apple TV app is now using mpv. That is how it handles HDR, it tone maps. And its default configuration is to output to SDR colorspace.

 

I don't have one to test with, but there should be an option to output to bt.2020, if there isn't already.

Edited by Doofus
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