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Multiple movie versions/transcoding


zigzagtshirt

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zigzagtshirt

Hello,

 

I have done a lot of reading up transcoding and multiple movie versions of the same title, but how things affect my exact scenario are a little unclear.

 

I have a movie (movieA) of which I have two versions.  One is a full blu ray rip, the other is a compressed version of the blu ray rip (via handbrake) that should be compatible with any playback client.  Both are h264; each has different audio codec.

 

/media/movies/movieA/movieA - bluray_rip.mkv (w/ dts master audio; 40mb/s total bitrate)

/media/movies/movieA/movieA - compressed.mp4 (w/ AAC audiuo; 7mb/s total bitrate)

 

Emby server picks up the multiple versions properly as expected.

 

Here are my questions:

 

If I try to play movieA on a client that fully supports the full blu ray rip file and has enough network bandwidth, the server should direct play the full blu ray rip.  

 

However, if I tried to play movieA on a client that supported everything in the full blu ray rip with the exception of the audio, would it still play the full blu ray rip file and only transcode the audio?  Or would it just play the compressed file instead since the audio in that one should be compatible?  (Would it sacrifice the far superior video quality just to avoid transcoding audio?) 

 

If I tried to play movieA on a client that supported everything in the full blu ray rip, but just didn't have enough bandwidth (bandwith at 30mb/s), would it just play the compressed file instead?  Or would it transcode the full blu ray rip?  There is a huge bitrate difference between the two files.  My server should be capable of transcoding on the fly at a higher bitrate than the compressed file.  (Since in this example the bandwidth is 30mb/s, would it sacrifice video quality by playing the compressed file instead of transcoding the full one at ~30mb/s?)

 

I apologize if the answers are obvious.  Just trying to understand exactly what happens behind the curtains.

 

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legallink

I think the transparency on which file is being selected is being worked on.

 

As to your questions, as far as I know:

 

#1. Yes the client should direct play the full blu ray rip.

#2. Yes, it should only transcode the audio and play the video blu ray rip. However, please see the first statement in my post.

#3. Most likely it would play the compressed file but see my first statement.

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Guest asrequested

Not really, since it doesn't talk about how the server will choice which version is the best to play.

Yeah, I know, but I thought it would clear up what does transcode and why.

 

Isn't the purpose of having multiple versions to have the server pick which one it has to do the least work with?

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Happy2Play

Yeah, I know, but I thought it would clear up what does transcode and why.

 

Isn't the purpose of having multiple versions to have the server pick which one it has to do the least work with?

That is the theory.  To me it is wasted space. :D

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Guest asrequested

That is the theory. To me it is wasted space. :D

Ha! Yeah, same here. I just let the server do what it needs to do. Save money on hard drives and spend it on a CPU :)

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zigzagtshirt

Thanks for all of the responses. I have been hypothesizing on what would be best for my uses. Seems like just having the full rips would be best, and let the server transcode as needed.

 

I did run into an issue the other day though. Maybe you guys would have some input.

 

I was streaming a full Blu ray rip from outside of my network. Worked great for half the movie. Looked like it was only transcoding audio. But all of a sudden the internet connection bandwidth took a dump from 100 Mbps to about 25 Mbps. The movie was around 40 Mbps. Of course the playback started to stall due to not having enough bandwidth. Was transcoding suppose to kick in automatically on the video in addition to the audio and bring it down to a playable bitrate? I ended up stopping playback and selecting bitrate manually.

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Happy2Play

Thanks for all of the responses. I have been hypothesizing on what would be best for my uses. Seems like just having the full rips would be best, and let the server transcode as needed.

 

I did run into an issue the other day though. Maybe you guys would have some input.

 

I was streaming a full Blu ray rip from outside of my network. Worked great for half the movie. Looked like it was only transcoding audio. But all of a sudden the internet connection bandwidth took a dump from 100 Mbps to about 25 Mbps. The movie was around 40 Mbps. Of course the playback started to stall due to not having enough bandwidth. Was transcoding suppose to kick in automatically on the video in addition to the audio and bring it down to a playable bitrate? I ended up stopping playback and selecting bitrate manually.

@@Luke

Is there anything in place, for bandwidth shaping/throttling like this?

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Guest asrequested

I wonder if simply creating a buffer would work. As you're watching, the server acquires about 10 mins of buffer. And possibly make it optional, for those who don't have enough space? A transcoded buffer, that is.

Edited by Doofus
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Happy2Play

I wonder if simply creating a buffer would work. As you're watching, the server acquires about 10 mins of buffer. And possibly make it optional, for those who don't have enough space?

The issues still is bitrate as you are now below the medias bitrate when this drop happens.  So the server would have to go from DirectStreaming to Transcoding on the fly.

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Guest asrequested

The issues still is bitrate as you are now below the medias bitrate when this drop happens. So the server would have to go from DirectStreaming to Transcoding on the fly.

Well, I was thinking that if there were a buffer ready to go, if the sees a drop, then it would switch to the buffer until the bandwidth came back up. So it would be like having two versions, but one is temporary, and would never be more than a few minutes. Also, if the bandwidth holds, only those few minutes are transcoded, and deleted once viewing is finished.

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zigzagtshirt

In perfect world I think being able to adjust on the fly automatically would be wonderful.  However, I think a big step forward would be some sort of clear indication, like a pop up message, to alert of a bandwidth drop to the point where sustained direct play/streaming is no longer viable in current conditions.  

 

I left out the part of my story where I was banging my head against the wall trying to figure out why the playback kept stalling; couldn't figure out why it played perfectly for an hour and all of a sudden crapped out.  Eventually I thought to run a speed test on the network I was on and finally realized that it was the bandwidth.  I was at a relative's house who has cable internet, which can have significant bandwidth fluctuations, especially during peak times.  Since I've been living in my ivory tower of fiber optic internet service, which isn't susceptible to fluctuations like cable, it took me a long time to finally realize that I needed to check the network speed.  If Emby could just throw up a pop up message in a situation like this, like "Unable to continue playback due to network speed- please lower bitrate" or something, it could prevent headaches for some, especially since many of us have non-technical family members using Emby.  Would also help with the WAF (wife acceptance factor). :)

 

So, I'd say aim for a pop up message, and maybe later down the road work out how to handle auto throttling the bitrate to adjust to network conditions.

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Happy2Play

The other issue you may run into is ISP data caps also that will/can throttle your connection, depending on how much media you stream.  It was brought up in another topic.

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zigzagtshirt

Ahhh true. Forgot about that. That could have been what happened. Fortunately, my ISP doesn't throttle. So I forget these things when I'm away from home on networks whose ISPs do throttle.

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