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19 minutes ago, roaku said:

To be clear, this article doesn't say any particular integration with any particular service is happening with Plex.

That's the whole point of the story. Quote directly from the article, "By seamlessly blending personal and third-party content (including the majors like Netflix and Disney+) Plex could go from a lone survivor of the personal media era to an established streaming player in its own right."

The story is from Engadget and not Plex, but they've obviously got someone talking otherwise they wouldn't have written the story. We'll see if Plex announces something soon, but it might take awhile for Plex to say anything even if it is true.

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6 minutes ago, mbarylski said:

That's the whole point of the story. Quote directly from the article, "By seamlessly blending personal and third-party content (including the majors like Netflix and Disney+) Plex could go from a lone survivor of the personal media era to an established streaming player in its own right."

The story is from Engadget and not Plex, but they've obviously got someone talking otherwise they wouldn't have written the story. We'll see if Plex announces something soon, but it might take awhile for Plex to say anything even if it is true.

Read carefully.

The article says *if* Plex was able to integrate these major players *then* they could become an established streaming player.

It doesn't claim they've accomplished either thing.

 

The point of the article is reporting that Plex has raised a bunch of money from people with a lot of money they're willing to take a risk with.

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Deathsquirrel

50 million bucks wouldn't be enough cash to convince the CEO of Disney to use TP printed with the Plex logo, let alone enough to license Disney+ content in a third party application.

If Disney, an example used in the article, wanted to let its content be accessed from other platforms they wouldn't have spent billions dumping their Netflix partnership and launching their own service.  Ditto for every other streaming service out there.  They ALL had the option to make easy money licensing their content to Netflix and either said no or changed their minds in favor of their own services for their content.

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3 minutes ago, roaku said:

The article says *if* Plex was able to integrate these major players *then* they could become an established streaming player.

It doesn't claim they've accomplished either thing.

Ugh, I know! I was simply pointing out that Plex appears to be moving in the direction of integrating major 3rd party streaming content. That's it. I never said they already integrated the major 3rd party streamers, in fact, I specifically said I wasn't waiting on an announcement from Plex to verify. 

1 minute ago, Deathsquirrel said:

If Disney, an example used in the article, wanted to let its content be accessed from other platforms they wouldn't have spent billions dumping their Netflix partnership and launching their own service.  Ditto for every other streaming service out there.  They ALL had the option to make easy money licensing their content to Netflix and either said no or changed their minds in favor of their own services for their content.

We can only wait and see. I was just pointing to some possibility that integration could occur. 

 

Why all the negativity? Just because you don't think something is going to happen, doesn't mean it won't. Engadget clearly picked up on something that we're not aware of. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but it is interesting to see that there is a possibility. 

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14 minutes ago, mbarylski said:

Ugh, I know! I was simply pointing out that Plex appears to be moving in the direction of integrating major 3rd party streaming content. That's it. I never said they already integrated the major 3rd party streamers, in fact, I specifically said I wasn't waiting on an announcement from Plex to verify. 

We can only wait and see. I was just pointing to some possibility that integration could occur.

lol

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Deathsquirrel
40 minutes ago, mbarylski said:

Why all the negativity? Just because you don't think something is going to happen, doesn't mean it won't. Engadget clearly picked up on something that we're not aware of. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but it is interesting to see that there is a possibility. 

I'd absolutely love a single user interface that allowed me to browse all the content I have access to and I'm 100% certain we'll get it about 5 minutes after we allow Disney to buy every other media company in the world and not a second before.

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16 minutes ago, Deathsquirrel said:

I'd absolutely love a single user interface that allowed me to browse all the content I have access to and I'm 100% certain we'll get it about 5 minutes after we allow Disney to buy every other media company in the world and not a second before.

I don't think we'll ever get a single user interface for EVERYTHING, but, I can definitely see a good chance that SOME 3rd party providers will allow access. It has, after all, already happened. For music, you can get to Tidal through Plex, and for Movies you can get to Lionsgate among others. Granted, the available movies stink, but there's at least a chance that more could be added. 

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I remember days when something like this would have been easy...

A personal media server which presents your account ( as logged in ) in their interface from the available media they serve. Still counting the numbers... showing the features.

AND YES... most importantly allowing the user to have one interface or hub for literally all of their media...

Now its about being the place to go, money to be able to give them another avenue to run up their numbers... but they view it as offering their services as your own. They can't allow you to host your own media because of their limitations legally... 

They create a usability situation that actually cuts them out of the picture in many cases.. maybe even dropped for other options.

We could hope, that much like the Copyright Wars ( I swear I am going to make ad banners for it and logos.. maybe even my own series ) that one day laws and boardroom meetings will allow this type of integration as the needs of the customers changes and has been this way for more than a decade.. which is more than any trend. 

The idea here would be to push an individual with little time for the matter of convenience to choose one or the other... in the hopes that their services are the only ones selected. They have also started services for online TV services...

KODI even provides a place for free online video and some places which allow logging in to be put in one place... ( more difficult to configure however ) so that viewing these sites and their videos becomes more seamless as an experience. It allows a person to use these service almost like TV Channels.. yet online resources off ON Demand options.. better than TV Viewing..

This is not what THEY want however each one working towards and striving to become the highest in viewer rating much like an old TV Station or network idea. Which if you notice tends to be the way they lean when it comes to this sort of thing...

We broke the TV and threw it out of the third story window 20 years ago along with the cable box.. we went with satellite services.. Online Resources.. we all use devices and our lives are more fast paced these days... Trying to reclaim the same idea and fame isn't a good idea for the TRUE wants and needs of the customer today or the viewer. Literally going through tons of different equipment purchases and using them a few years.. to through them out for support of changes generates a lot of money in the entertainment/computing/electronics field...

Getting these areas of actual convenience, and compatibility worked out for the end user... not something they want to really do... You come up with an improvement you want money for your idea... maybe you create jobs through manufacturing of devices to support it... Nevertheless it should be something that can integrate and be had by a wider range of customers or actual numbers and investment dollars stay stagnate. ( in multiple areas )

They play the short game.. not the long game... it can render positive results in many areas but at the same time you have a lot of inefficiency and a wasteland of products and services laying all over creating issues and frustration.

Maybe even why many of us are using an EMBY server right now for our OWN media...

That's just sort of how I see it though. When the customers say 'simple', they don't mean - dumbed-up... They mean efficient, compatible, and encompassing.

New service, new device, more money.. more devices... maybe then I get media.. maybe not.. and OH wait a minute does that fall under clause.. and amendment of addendum number or our agreement cause.. or should someone else be offering the option...Or is the government going to be knocking on our door next.. in question or lue of charges where we violated the law..

These are not good things to really have to figure out when that app quits working or is no longer supported on your TV and it costs you @ 2 grand to get back to your evening show.

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I believe their plan is definitely to be an integrator of major video sources.  Whether or not they can pull that off - who knows.  Some VC is willing to bet $50 large on it.  IMO, the most likely way those investors get their money back (and/or a return) is by one of the big media companies simply purchasing P's technology.  But, that is pure conjecture on my part.  I don't know why any of the "big" content providers would want to offer an access method to their content that will potentially steer people towards some other provider's content and comingle it with personal content of potentially questionable origin.  In effect, steering their customers towards a system that can help them to no longer need them.

Here is the most interesting statement in that article to my eye:

Quote

A big part of its goal is content discovery. Plex says its mission is to use viewing activity to give you TV and film recommendations. 

"to use viewing activity".  Big Prother, is watching... ;) 

[For the record, Emby (the company) knows nothing of your content or your viewing activity]

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4 minutes ago, ebr said:

[For the record, Emby (the company) knows nothing of your content or your viewing activity]

Yeah.. it's own information at it's current state is good.

Another.. Google and Facebook type endeavor to better target marketing... not really great idea... unless you become that type of purveyor of content AND can integrate it's usage within the same interface.

Many people question how that data is being used and rather or not this information is used to create or even determine what type of media we see in the future coming from the BIG Companies.. even in our movies.. and in market studies.. not just ad preferences.

This is pretty much how things have been happening for the last decade or so however.

I do see what you mean about just being able to back up one and go to a competitor for the program your watching.. but this still stimulates activity, growth and economical aspects with the industry itself. Cornering people off into their specific platform however.. is really no guarantee unless it depends on their ability to take on new ideas, methods, sites... but it sot of corners them financially as well.. You can get really invested dollar-wise these days... DISH used to be almost $200 a month... Add in a few services and it adds up...

Thing is you have have a compatible app, device, or interface.. and switch between even using a computer... 

The vendor/franchise mentality hold it back.

If I sell or vend COKE in my restaurant, I can't give PEPSI to anyone and lucky if you have DR. PEPPER... Where everybody could stop in and be happy... but again more money is needed or it kills a place as an option...

Competition is about who has the quality product by consumer choice but is determined by the law. 🤔

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The thing is, what P appears to be trying to be - is already there for the mass consumer.  All of the devices main interfaces are the aggregator of all of the services now and they all already present suggested content from those providers right there on the home screen of the device (see Google TV, the new Amazon Fire interface just rolled out, Roku, etc.).  So I'm not really sure what dog P is planning to bring to this fight that will make more money for those content providers than Google, Amazon or Roku can.  I guess we'll wait and see but, to me, I think this plan of theirs has to mean that they eventually move away from personal content - once thy have you hooked on their content.

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Advertising. It isn't about just streaming their content. It is also about streaming their content partners advertising. Deriving royalties from in-app purchases. Taking users directly to the device home screen rather than into any particular application. These are the ways of the revenue. It is difficult to share the content when your partner might be faking screens that watch that advertising and just making a mockery of you. It becomes difficult to police a third party player consuming your content and making sure you advertising is interstitial and actually watched and consumed by the user. Without something faking it being watched and just skipping advertising.

That is what comes with all this integration. Now that we have your eyeballs captive we can start the show. We can start to make the money back by blending commercials into content. That is what big P is hoping happens with that 50M. They hope their burn-rate of the capital leans towards actual revenue. Otherwise there is no sustainability to even wanting to go there. The money is in advertising. Because nobody can be trusted they want you to consume their content through their platform which ensures you watch their advertisements.

"Madison Avenue is funneling more of its dollars into so-called programmatic advertising that is keyed via software to appear in front of specific niche audiences, and is eager to test “addressable” commercials that can be sent to car buyers or expectant mothers via set-top box or smart TV."

Edited by speechles
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That will probably be the point of 'convenience' to the end user... But when contractual agreements are in place to determine that you cannot carry one over the other.. then to me you have a problem...

Similar to the absence of some data when you have the entire world to think of. So some users choices are tracked.. Some of the people fill out questionnaires... while other people and their choices are left out of the picture. I have seen over time where a company kills a product.. Leaving a good well of their customers out of the picture .. who go down the road to company B.. Then they try to make a play to bring the product back.. It could be said that oversight lost revenue... The quality of the product offered may have even declined.. or changed to something else... forcing the change...

The end user(s) wants it all... something to think about.

P--- ( he that is not named.. :lol: )... is already pushing people in that direction.. some may actually drop them.. and go with the simplistic.. I did this years ago observing certain things..

The attack on online sharing/copyright law/broadcasting rights even speaks to something that was made illegal.. and highly attacked worldwide.. to have paid services for products we will never own or may loose access to. Monopolizing this type of thing to only the businesses after the private sector created it and the need for it.

Information and data control, of what we see or even think is available.. is playing into corporate hands..

Transparency of the world within our lives is being shaped by that money... Like having the government shape our view and information about realities in this world through propaganda.. We don't like it there.. we definitely don't like it in our daily lives.. 

I always peer through to the source and realities and expand my horizons.. its just me.. Maybe I am making an argument for my type of person.. but I see something else.. While Mr. Joe Q. Public may not even be aware.. Following a trend was never my thing.. If I am going to do it..  I have to know more... Realities and truth with foresight to my investment, how much is involved.. and what does it allow for me in the future.

  EDIT:

18 minutes ago, speechles said:

Advertising. It isn't about just streaming their content. It is also about streaming their content partners advertising.

Good point as well..

If EMBY was going to do this however I would be looking at the main companies for Movies and Prime Time... ads/trailers/features when playing back media. BUT as an option, it would never fly. ( I personally do not want ads in my EMBY ) One thing about HULU back in the day.. They said by a subscription to go ad-free and then within a few months and being paid even.. You literally had more ad-time in between sections of actual video you were watching... along with those Prescription Med commercials... that would last for minutes on end back to back.. 10 minutes of commercials and then 5 minutes of TV in some cases..

There is always too many 'Proxies' in the picture..

Edited by Guest
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Advertising and Pornography. People dislike being shown either unless they get to curate what they see. You want to see the advertisements that pertain to you and porn that appeals to you. When they do not you likely "change the channel" and move on. This bounce is normal. The addressable advertising will learn from your bounce from that ad that you dislike it and train itself accordingly to eventually display more advertising that is contextually relevant to your persona. Or at least eventually it should. It may not when an entire family watches broadcasts at different times. It cannot train itself to several heads with differing opinions. A single person watching would be much more easier to train the advertising AI to address. This is where user accounts tied to each person and logging in keeps the advertising relevant.

When a national broadcaster pays for a commercial of course the term "national" means it cannot be spliced over, although some stations do it anyways because they can who is going to stop them. The same will happen in the internet addressable advertising. There will be "global", "regional", and "local". Just like there is for commercials now. That is what determines how far your reach goes and how easy it is for a competitor to lock your advertising out in certain markets. You want to pay the "global" rates and not the lower "regional" rates if you want to reach the world and ensure every market covers your advertisment. Otherwise of course your advertising will get overwrote for the region you aren't paying to have market share within.

Emby = Your media, Your way. There is only commercials if you have them in your content. Emby is not a producer/transmitter of commercials to splice into your content nor should it be. It should focus on being the absolute best personal media server in the known universes.

Edited by speechles
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I just want Trakt support across the different streaming services, like Emby already offers.

My Rokus present the different apps to me just fine.

Interoperability of 'my' watch metadata is more interesting to me.

Edited by roaku
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On 4/14/2021 at 5:47 PM, ebr said:

I believe their plan is definitely to be an integrator of major video sources. 

"to use viewing activity".  Big Brother, is watching... ;) 

 

 

On 4/14/2021 at 6:12 PM, ebr said:

The thing is, what P appears to be trying to be - is already there for the mass consumer.  All of the devices main interfaces are the aggregator of all of the services now and they all already present suggested content from those providers right there on the home screen of the device (see Google TV, the new Amazon Fire interface just rolled out, Roku, etc.).

What I could see is a way for the Netflix, Prime, Hulu to peddle lesser quality films (think Crackle) to get a little extra revenue via license or add sales.
I could also see films from the big services integrated into P but not as a monthly service but a rental service (especially if they didn't have to handle payments).

Netflix sort of got it's start in the disc rental business so they could sort of use P in this fashion as I'm sure they have a lot of users (not the system admins). If they were able to take their current inventory and be able to rent movies without having to stream, bill, have accounts, sales reps, support people I could see this.  Anything to make another dime on existing content.

I could definitely see ways this could benefit each company without competing with their own brand.  But who know what will transpire. Time will tell but it's clear what direction P is moving in and what is important to them these days.

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See that would be sensible to me as well as far as making extra money for those entities... BUT what they do in the process... and the percentage of revenue generated by ads on their main site.. ( which many entities claim they can't afford to do what they do without them ).. Would probably effect the end decision. when consider all of the factors involved..

It may not be such a 'clean' situation at the end of the day for viewing or accessing them.

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Personally I'd prefer not to see this integration. My use-case is that I want Emby to work even if there is no web. For now it's been extremely useful when there are internet outages in the area. In the future I could see my family moving to an area that doesn't have great internet. For me this is where Emby really shines. I love how I can store all of my metadata on the server itself and still enjoy a rich experience without great internet. This is honestly one of the big reasons that I made the move from Plex to Emby in the first place. I can appreciate the convenience of having web-service integration with Emby, but I'm also very cautious of anything that could add an internet requirement to using it. This is exactly the sort of thing that happened with Plex. At first it was just little web videos that were tied in, and now more and more content is being pulled from sources other than your server. Which is fine, and I hope that they do well with the direction that they've chosen. But for me, I want Emby to remain offline-friendly. I still enjoy other streaming services, and I've got no problem pushing two buttons on my remote to open the respective Apps for those services. I'd just prefer to see them left separate from Emby. Emby is about my personal media and that's what makes it such a cool thing. Again, I'm speaking about my personal preference, but in a thread where we're discussing what to add, this sort of perspective needs to be expressed.

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On 4/14/2021 at 10:38 PM, mbarylski said:

Plex appears to be making things interesting. It's an unofficial report so far, but seems legit. Just waiting on the announcement from Plex to confirm, but that could be awhile. If this is true, could give an opening for Emby to negotiate although it appears some "fundraising" would be needed. 

Plex's latest funding will boost its own streaming catalog while supporting others | Engadget

 

What does any of this have to do with what Emby is used for, or what Plex was originally supposed to be used for?

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It is about the options.. ( and development ) with what the end user wants.. ( but possibly can't have )..[ as well as what some people managing would go for ] - Different things.. but people who are simply users.. without any knowledge ,do view it and feel it is all the same way.. don't know or care where it comes from or how it works or what the differences are. So good point, at the same time.. 🤷‍♂️

Winds up at best being like downloading an APP to write code and finding out later its only a help file app which has ads and sends you to BS sites, at the end of the day. ( Junk where I am from, bloat and a money hook in either direction )

It winds up being about the fact that most of us sit behind the computer and put media into a server.. so that OTHER people who do not work QUITE so hard to watch the media and use it.. can complain.. about how hard it is to switch apps.. :P 

They like the interface and like how it works and want it all in one thing.. easy to go. quick to use, better than the vendor mentality of the smart TV, Apps, or browsing different sites ( which was the first version of this unless you account for cruising your own file browser and playing files ) . ( Corporations, business, legal agreements, rights and the whole thig keep it separated )

OH yeah and also about how Plex ( P, for he who is not named.. LOL I feel a harry [w]flopper joke coming on ) is integrating everything and turning into a Hub or portal to everything else. ( and EMBY isn't.. )

The end point really being about everyone being competitive to create a need for their services, or servers and apps.. Where their features and options and ease of use/compatibility allow them to survive the customer who knows nothing more and is simply the user - as well as lending itself to being customized/configured by the IT/Admin of said servers/apps/media in the easiest manner to survive the end user as well.. and create demand... Which is road to success as with every idea. To identify a need, offer a solution, convenience... to trigger positive response indemnifying DEMAND. - think I said that right.

So technically its a push for something... even in the article .. maybe it is about a conversation.. maybe a stance to survive with nothing on the table.. could really be about a lot more.. and absolutely nothing about the Media/File Server in which they began.. for transcoding and getting your media mobile.. a time when those services never existing and many have moved to since.. because they are easy.

Edited by Guest
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  • 4 months later...

@ebr As an option, since direct integration with the streaming services would be somewhat difficult, would it be possible to add a field for at least movie metadata that can be populated with a link to a different version of the movie? So, for example, let's say I record the Disney movie Luca with PlayOn. I put the 720p version of Luca in my library, but if I watch it, I'd prefer to open up the Disney app since there's a 4k version available through the app. I can copy the link to the 4k version and drop it in the metadata for Luca in my library. Any chance that could be implemented as a workaround? Even better would be if I could have the other version show up in the actual versions list, but that might be too complicated or confusing to be worth it. 

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Hi, the stub file is just a placeholder file but can't be played back as it's just a text file.

What this allows you to do is create media entries for discs you have offline or for media available on Netflix, Prime, Hulu, etc.

Try putting "Netflix" in the title so you know it's a stub for media hosted on Netflix.

You can combine this will multi-versions so you can have both a local and online service offering.
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001159102-movie-naming

ie:
Top Gun (1986) - 720.mkv
Top Gun (1986) - 4K Netflix.stub

 

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