Emby Premier Costs etc.

[IPley_2 4]

I wouldn't mind paying a monthly price for a premiere with all the features and no limit on devices.

In the end the only thing that is achieved by limiting the devices is that people stop subscribing to the premiere and use "unblocked apps"

You may think that limiting devices to 75 for a monthly price of $20 is something that in most cases is not used, but there are people who do not use emby for copyrighted content or there are even many who have their own copies and Share with friends and family.

For a person to use emby on 3/5 devices is not exorbitant.

In the end, 15 people using 5 devices is something that can happen and paying $20 a month for a few friends to enjoy emby seems expensive to me, especially knowing that you are going to have to limit the devices.
In any house there are 2/3 TVs, 2 or 3 computers, cell phones, tablets, etc.

Anyone who wants to sell it and make money is going to do it the same because Android apps can be modified, this one can be used, and plex can be used, and all of them can be modified.

[unisoft 287]

10 hours ago, andrewds said:

I have a lifetime premiere license. The license terms only guarantee access to Live TV for the term. There's no mention of guide data. I'm not a lawyer but it doesn't seem like guide data is explicitly covered. Is the Emby team just trying to take the temperature of the community to understand impact if the guide data service is no longer included free of charge? I'll use Schedules Direct if needed. If addressing this funding issue by eliminating free guide data allows reallocation of resources to address the many open and ongoing issues with the product then my consumer feedback is that it should be done.

https://emby.media/premiereterms.html

You can't use schedulesdirect data with Emby without breaching their license terms. They don't support Emby since it went from free to paid.

I have schedulesdirect for Windows Media Center because the current TV in Emby is lacking compared to Media Center and takes ages to change channels (until TVNext). In the UK, they could read over the air free EPG data for 7 days ahead. Really don't want two subscription charges. Make TVNext reality and one could be dumped but Id still favour paying a yearly upfront fee for EPG data than monthly and it has to be within reason, even schdulesdirect pricing is getting a bit much for epg data that is available for free online.

Edited April 3 by unisoft

[Spaceboy 2500]

1 hour ago, unisoft said:

You can't use schedulesdirect data with Emby without breaching their license terms.

I have schedulesdirect for Windows Media Center

this argument makes no sense to me.

more importantly, there is nothing to stop you using xmltv data obtained from schedules direct in any software

[bakes82 90]

5 hours ago, IPley_2 said:

Anyone who wants to sell it and make money is going to do it the same because Android apps can be modified, this one can be used, and plex can be used, and all of them can be modified.

This would require the end users to install a custom apk, and the people buying shares of emby arent "usually" that smart lol, plex also has a 100 user limit per server but thats not the issue usually its # of concurrent streams/transcodes a server can handle.  If you have 15 users and each has 3 devices thats only 45, so what's the issue the odds of you ever using 45 concurrent steams is low, and if they buy their own device license it doesn't count vs the server, this is how some emby shares work, they make them buy their own device licenses  

[ebr 14939]

3 minutes ago, bakes82 said:

this is how some emby shares work,

And this is another reason why we may need to change policy here.  This is a loophole that is being leveraged by bad actors and, while good actors can complain that it isn't fair to punish them for other's actions, I'm afraid that is just the reality because no one will have the system if we get kicked out of all the stores due to people using our product for illegal means.

[IPley_2 4]

Hace 51 minutos, bakes82 dijo:

Esto requeriría que los usuarios finales instalen un apk personalizado, y las personas que compran acciones de emby no son "normalmente" que inteligente lol, plex también tiene un límite de 100 usuarios por servidor, pero ese no es el problema, por lo general, su número de transmisiones/transcódigos concurrentes que un servidor puede manejar. Si tienes 15 usuarios y cada uno tiene 3 dispositivos, eso es solo 45, así que ¿cuál es el problema? Las probabilidades de que alguna vez uses 45 vapores simultáneos son bajas, y si compran su propia licencia de dispositivo, no cuenta frente al servidor, así es como funcionan algunas acciones de emby, les hacen comprar sus propias licencias de dispositivo 

They are not simultaneous reproductions, they are devices that use some premier feature for at least 1 week.

That's not 45 at a time, it's 45 different devices in a week.
In a week 1000 situations can happen and it could be that you use it at work, that you go to another location, to a family member or friend's house, work...

75 devices are too few for non-commercial use.
You can sell me whatever you want but it is preferable to say that you can only have 100 users than to force people not to use devices.

[IPley_2 4]

Hace 1 hora, ebr dijo:

Y esta es otra razón por la que es posible que tengamos que cambiar la política aquí. Esta es una laguna legal que está siendo aprovechada por los malos actores y, si bien los buenos actores pueden quejarse de que no es justo castigarlos por las acciones de otros, me temo que esa es solo la realidad porque nadie tendrá el sistema si nos echan de todas las tiendas debido a que las personas usan nuestro producto por medios ilegales.

If in the end you make that decision, people will end up in jellyfin, it is free, open source and has no limits.
What is less developed? It's true, but developers will end up joining the project if they can't use something better.

Nobody considers hiring 1Gb fiber internet and the operator tells you that it limits it to 50MB because that way you won't download copyrighted movies.
It does not have to be used with protected content.
There are people who use it for educational videos.
others for photos, others for content created by themselves, even why not, for online courses.
That there are different prices seems correct to me, the same as now, but there also has to be an "unlimited" plan not because you want to have 5000 users, but because there are people who don't want to worry about those things and I want everything unlimited.

[andrewds 97]

1 hour ago, Spaceboy said:

this argument makes no sense to me.

more importantly, there is nothing to stop you using xmltv data obtained from schedules direct in any software

Anyways I can't respect a hypocrite and fanatic. For some reason it's ok for Schedules Direct to make enough money to pay its developers, it's ok for their guide data provider to charge Schedules Direct and pay their employees, it's ok for the entire television industry to make obscene amounts of advertising money and pay their employees, but not Emby. Maybe if the Emby leadership martyred themselves by "working day jobs" then Emby would be considered worthy.

[bakes82 90]

24 minutes ago, ebr said:

And this is another reason why we may need to change policy here.  This is a loophole that is being leveraged by bad actors and, while good actors can complain that it isn't fair to punish them for other's actions, I'm afraid that is just the reality because no one will have the system if we get kicked out of all the stores due to people using our product for illegal means.

What policy are we changing, I mean you guys have basically already said you have no way of tracking this like plex does, so unless you start to collect metrics of users/media/locations not sure how you can combat anything.

 

2 minutes ago, IPley_2 said:

They are not simultaneous reproductions, they are devices that use some premier feature for at least 1 week.

That's not 45 at a time, it's 45 different devices in a week.
In a week 1000 situations can happen and it could be that you use it at work, that you go to another location, to a family member or friend's house, work...

75 devices are too few for non-commercial use.
You can sell me whatever you want but it is preferable to say that you can only have 100 users than to force people not to use devices.

Got it, youre a share seller, and dont understand what devices actually count towards the count.  Maybe figure that out first.  If you're using at work most likely on a web browswer, doesnt count towards the magic number, if you're at a friends place, why arent you could just casting it from your phone that would be licensed, or why doesnt that "friend" have a license already, so far you have proposed far too many hypotheticals that just dont exist in the real world for most average users lol.  Like I'm not logging in to my account on their devices, they would be getting their own account, and if you out of licenses I guess you say you can buy it, or you dont watch whatever it was.  Youre magic world seems to be youre just randomly adding devices willy nilly some how when in most cases people would already have a licensed device with them like a phone, laptop, and browsers dont count towards the license so, Im not actually seeing an issue, hell even traveling Id bring a firestick since you never know what tv a place will have and it would already be configured and ready to go

 

8 minutes ago, IPley_2 said:

If in the end you make that decision, people will end up in jellyfin, it is free, open source and has no limits.
What is less developed? It's true, but developers will end up joining the project if they can't use something better.

You should go use that then, all that happens in the end is MPAA will tell the stores Emby and Jellyfin both facilitate pirated media and they get removed from stores since they dont have a way to track it like plex, if you want to install the APKs on to some android devices but obviously that wouldnt work for tvs/ios.

[Happy2Play 8318]

9 minutes ago, IPley_2 said:

That there are different prices seems correct to me, the same as now, but there also has to be an "unlimited" plan not because you want to have 5000 users, but because there are people who don't want to worry about those things and I want everything unlimited.

Well technically it already is but depends on the client one prefers as a browser is unlimited.  Unless you are talking about features which should alway cost more.  So from a device dedicated app there should always be limits and costs.

[IPley_2 4]

Hace 1 minuto, Happy2Play dijo:

Bueno, técnicamente ya lo es, pero depende del cliente que uno prefiera, ya que el navegador es ilimitado. A menos que estés hablando de características que siempre deberían costar más. Por lo tanto, desde una aplicación dedicada al dispositivo siempre debería haber límites y costos.

If I pay monthly for something, I don't want it to have limits, much less have to tell my father that he can't use the tablet because we have reached the device limit, for example.

I don't know what the "perfect" price is for something like this, I don't have to decide that, but it's like if I contract internet at home and when I want to connect to the Wi-Fi it only leaves me with 5 devices...
doesn't it make sense?
Well this is the same.
set a user limit or add "premium" features such as downloads or whatever you consider to be an added bonus.
But you can't charge a monthly fee and tell them that only he and 4 other people can use it.

[sross44 243]

21 minutes ago, andrewds said:

Anyways I can't respect a hypocrite and fanatic. For some reason it's ok for Schedules Direct to make enough money to pay its developers, it's ok for their guide data provider to charge Schedules Direct and pay their employees, it's ok for the entire television industry to make obscene amounts of advertising money and pay their employees, but not Emby. Maybe if the Emby leadership martyred themselves by "working day jobs" then Emby would be considered worthy.

This is the reason a lot of companies are switching to more of a "subscription"model. It makes the most sense as it continues to pay their employees versus the one time fee which is more of an influx of money. People don't understand the man hours and work it takes to keep a program like Emby current and continuously improving! 

Edited April 3 by sross44

[ebr 14939]

8 minutes ago, bakes82 said:

What policy are we changing

We're discussing the possibility of requiring Premiere for the Android app on a TV device (like the other TV apps do) and not allowing an unlock which then allows people to get around the device limits.

[sross44 243]

2 minutes ago, IPley_2 said:

If I pay monthly for something, I don't want it to have limits, much less have to tell my father that he can't use the tablet because we have reached the device limit, for example.

I don't know what the "perfect" price is for something like this, I don't have to decide that, but it's like if I contract internet at home and when I want to connect to the Wi-Fi it only leaves me with 5 devices...
doesn't it make sense?
Well this is the same.
set a user limit or add "premium" features such as downloads or whatever you consider to be an added bonus.
But you can't charge a monthly fee and tell them that only he and 4 other people can use it.

The only difference here between your examples is that there are people out there using Emby and other media servers for illegal reasons such as Emby shares or Plex shares. 

[ebr 14939]

4 minutes ago, IPley_2 said:

If I pay monthly for something, I don't want it to have limits

Every license you've ever purchased is limited in some way.

In your analogy, you are limited to a contracted bandwidth and, additionally, (in the fine print) the provider can restrict that bandwidth even further whenever it wants based on traffic. Lots of other limits in that fine print as well...

[andrewds 97]

4 minutes ago, sross44 said:

This is the reason a lot of companies are switching to more of a "subscription"model. It makes the most sense as it continues to pay their employees versus the one time fee which is more of an influx of money. People don't understand the man hours and work it takes to keep a program like Emby current and continuously improving! 

I'm no great defender of Emby, butI was a monthly subscriber for years before switching to lifetime last month. I like the product. I understand that there are challenges and I think most others here do too. I switched to lifetime primarily to protest the absolutely bonkers "support" system for the product. I recognize these are growing pains. If something monthly gets added back because that's what's needed for growth then I understand and will even subscribe if I need it. My general disposition is that something needs to change. So, I like this conversation.

[ebr 14939]

1 minute ago, andrewds said:

I switched to lifetime primarily to protest the absolutely bonkers "support" system for the product

Hi.  Can you please expand on this...?

[andrewds 97]

12 minutes ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Can you please expand on this...?

I really do appreciate the community. But, I would like to be able to submit an issue without posting the entirety of my private data for all to see (even "anonymized"). It would also be nice to receive a response from the Emby team that either identifies my misconfiguration/ignorance and a corrective action to take or, importantly, provides me with a trackable issue number. I don't even care if sometimes it's tracked to be fixed "eventually", just a visible place would be nice. I sometimes find it pretty challenging to get issues addressed, in large part because I refuse to upload entire server logs.

How does Emby handle subpoenas anyways?

[pünktchen 1259]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

We're discussing the possibility of requiring Premiere for the Android app on a TV device (like the other TV apps do) and not allowing an unlock which then allows people to get around the device limits.

Imho every app on every device, except browsers, should require Premiere! Why should owners of a Sony TV do need Premiere, but not the owners of LG or Samsung?

[benpicard 15]

On 02/04/2024 at 23:13, Luke said:

Hi, the issue is that we have to pay monthly for this data and that cost keeps going up.

I get it. Do you need to pay to get the data or the host it? Or both i guess? I just don’t like monthly fees. I would much prefer pay more for a year, multi year or lifetime license to get it. 

[benpicard 15]

On 02/04/2024 at 23:13, Luke said:

Hi, the issue is that we have to pay monthly for this data and that cost keeps going up.

Also, I think I get the guide data from my HDHomeRun. Anyway you guys could get that feed for free when we have an HDHomeRun connected ? 

[justinrh 175]

On 4/3/2024 at 2:55 AM, andrewds said:

I'll use Schedules Direct if needed.

I may be dunce at the moment, but without guide data in Emby, how can TV be watched or recordings be made?  In admin, only the Emby Guide is listed as a source for me.

[pwhodges 1534]

You can watch TV by simply going to a channel - you may know what's on from other sources (newspaper, etc).

To make a recording you can right-click on a channel; select "Create Recording"; put in the required information.

Paul

[Luke 37132]

6 minutes ago, justinrh said:

I may be dunce at the moment, but without guide data in Emby, how can TV be watched or recordings be made?  In admin, only the Emby Guide is listed as a source for me.

If we split it out to a separate fee then you'd have the option to do that, or use xml guide data, or run without guide data. If you're not seeing xml as a guide data option then it may be due to uninstalling the xmltv plugin.

[ebr 14939]

17 hours ago, benpicard said:

I would much prefer pay more for a year

We would likely have an annual option and, like our current Premiere yearly subscription, we probably would not have that auto-renew (because too many people forget about them).