Emby Premier Costs etc.

[ebr 14913]

9 hours ago, CBers said:

Added item #95 to first page, "Resolve issue surrounding Premiere and unlocking the app as a standalone app, same as with the Android ATV app.".
 

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but over the past few years prices on just about everything have gone up - a LOT.  Also not sure if anyone has noticed but our price has remained constant for about six years now.

We are working internally on how to continue to provide everything we want to in the current economic environment.  We'd like to not have to raise our prices but all of our costs have gone up - again a LOT.  So, it is possible that more things will require Premiere or that some things will have some other additional cost in the future. We don't have it all worked out yet but some sort of changes are going to have to come to adjust to the changing times.

Thanks for your support.

[Locutus64 118]

On 3/21/2024 at 2:54 AM, ebr said:

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but over the past few years prices on just about everything have gone up - a LOT.  Also not sure if anyone has noticed but our price has remained constant for about six years now.

I'm sure you are aware that this is simply a piece of software  NOT hard goods so the same thing does not apply. On a side note, [redacted] over 90% of the so-called inflation from 2016 to now was and is actually corporate greed.

Edited March 25 by GrimReaper
Politics excluded

[rbjtech 4265]

34 minutes ago, Locutus64 said:

I'm sure you are aware that this is simply a piece of software  NOT hard goods so the same thing does not apply. On a side note, since Trump aka Hitler Jr. over 90% of the so-called inflation from 2016 to now was and is actually corporate greed.

Why do you think Emby do not have costs ?  Emby is not 'just a piece of software'.    Hosting, Development Licenses, LiveTV programe data provider, Metadata Providers, Developers (they don't do it for free) not to mention corporation tax etc ..

After 6 years of no price increases, I don't think it's unreasonable to review this imo.

[Locutus64 118]

2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Why do you think Emby do not have costs ?  Emby is not 'just a piece of software'.    Hosting, Development Licenses, LiveTV programe data provider, Metadata Providers, Developers (they don't do it for free) not to mention corporation tax etc ..

After 6 years of no price increases, I don't think it's unreasonable to review this imo.

My point was you can't base new pricing on past inflation rates when 90% of inflation in the last 8 years has been pure corporate greed. I can see a model where Emby becomes 10 a month now, but no higher than that.

Edited March 21 by Locutus64

[pwhodges 1530]

The cause of the inflation is not the point - its costs bear on the Emby developers just the same as on the rest of us.

Paul

[CharlieMurphy 73]

For the record, I would have purchased the device limit extension if there were a lifetime option when I checked. I think the only options were monthly, at least at the time.
I'd be happy to spend more money on Emby even though I'm slowly creeping away from it. I wouldn't be open to a monthly fee but I would be willing to buy something.

I always think live TV is low hanging fruit for Emby sales. There are/were a lot of cord cutters who still want live sports and such.

[crusher11 851]

13 hours ago, ebr said:

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but over the past few years prices on just about everything have gone up - a LOT.  Also not sure if anyone has noticed but our price has remained constant for about six years now.

We are working internally on how to continue to provide everything we want to in the current economic environment.  We'd like to not have to raise our prices but all of our costs have gone up - again a LOT.  So, it is possible that more things will require Premiere or that some things will have some other additional cost in the future. We don't have it all worked out yet but some sort of changes are going to have to come to adjust to the changing times.

Thanks for your support.

"We're now charging for Android apps" would probably be more palatable than "we're trying to replace a free app with a paid one", though, especially given the paid one is markedly worse.

[pwhodges 1530]

What free app is being replaced?  Android TV app is not free.

Paul

[Locutus64 118]

The Android app wants either 6 or 7 a month if purchased through them, but if you purchase the Emby subscribtion and add the key to your server on the PC then when you use the App on the TV you no longer get nagged for purchase. 

[pwhodges 1530]

33 minutes ago, Locutus64 said:

The Android app wants either 6 or 7 a month if purchased through them, but if you purchase the Emby subscribtion and add the key to your server on the PC then when you use the App on the TV you no longer get nagged for purchase. 

"... a month"?  Surely the unlock payments are one-off.

Paul

[Locutus64 118]

Not likely

[pwhodges 1530]

You really think it's a monthly payment?  That would make a single app as expensive as Premiere which unlocks all apps!

Of course, it's not like that: a single payment unlocks the app for all devices using the same login to the app store (not just one).

Paul

[Locutus64 118]

10 hours ago, pwhodges said:

You really think it's a monthly payment?  That would make a single app as expensive as Premiere which unlocks all apps!

Of course, it's not like that: a single payment unlocks the app for all devices using the same login to the app store (not just one).

Paul

Not according to the apps in the store. Try again. The one app makes it clear that it does not unlock the PC app when paid for. This is exactly why we bought directly through Emby to avoid that BS.

[Darius 9]

19 hours ago, CharlieMurphy said:

I always think live TV is low hanging fruit for Emby sales. There are/were a lot of cord cutters who still want live sports and such.

Amen spread the gospel brother!

[Clackdor 19]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:13 AM, CharlieMurphy said:

For the record, I would have purchased the device limit extension if there were a lifetime option when I checked. I think the only options were monthly, at least at the time.
I'd be happy to spend more money on Emby even though I'm slowly creeping away from it. I wouldn't be open to a monthly fee but I would be willing to buy something.

I always think live TV is low hanging fruit for Emby sales. There are/were a lot of cord cutters who still want live sports and such.

 

On 3/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, ebr said:

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but over the past few years prices on just about everything have gone up - a LOT.  Also not sure if anyone has noticed but our price has remained constant for about six years now.

We are working internally on how to continue to provide everything we want to in the current economic environment.  We'd like to not have to raise our prices but all of our costs have gone up - again a LOT.  So, it is possible that more things will require Premiere or that some things will have some other additional cost in the future. We don't have it all worked out yet but some sort of changes are going to have to come to adjust to the changing times.

Thanks for your support.

@ebrLooking at the feature matrix it doesn't look like much of anything else can be made to require premiere that doesn't already other than a couple of tv apps or core server functionality like metadata/artwork & web browser playback. At this point it almost doesn't make sense to have a free version at all given how limited it is. Taking away the free option would make a lot of people mad though, & you guys have to try to compete with the other guys who still have their "free tier" They sell people's data & make money from advertising on their platform, so I could hardly call that free.

The open source alternative is also lacking with regards to client support etc. which is one of the reasons I've stuck with emby. (In addition to wanting to support the original developers that project was forked from)

Emby is supposed to be a platform that is user/server operator first and not selling out to investors, advertisers, etc. I think going premiere only would be okay. Some people will likely disagree, but I'd argue that you guys have a product vastly superior to the competion when it comes to privacy/ownership & support.

As noted in @CharlieMurphy's comment I don't want any more monthly subscribtions, I'm already trying to eliminate as many of those as I can.

If the emby team has no interest in adding a lifetime extended device limit back, a workable comprimise could be to offer a premiere app unlock/separate premiere app. Charge $10-20 as a one off so that device doesn't count against the premiere limit for ALL premiere features.  I'd gladly pay for it on each of my household's devices (multiple android phones/tablets & xboxes) With 6 users just in the household with multiple devices each which are used regularly I'm already butting against that limit at times. 

I actually reached out to billing support very recently to see if a one-off request to extend the limit could be offered and of course that request was denied. My use case had nothing to do with sharing my movie/tv library, but rather being able to share family photos & videos with extended family. I don't want to have to purchase another license and manage another server instance, nor do I want to be locked into a subscription for something that may occasionally see extensive use, or at times no use at all. As it stands right now I'm looking for alternative solutions to a problem emby could solve if the licensing model hadn't changed.

Giving people the ability to extend their device limit on a per-device basis generates more income for you guys and gives people the option of not being locked into a subscription. 

I don't want to see lifetime licenses dissapear altogether like what happened to the extended premiere option. That is a big part of the value for a lot of people. Monthly subscriptions are nice for those who can't afford the upfront cost or otherwise find it more convienent but it shouldn't be the only option( especially for a product that heavily markets keeping control over your own content and user management)

Further restricting the product (for example doing something like making web browsers or other clients count against device limits to force more people to have to subscribe to the monthly extension tier, or locking live tv behind it's own subscription without an equivalent lifetime upgrade option) is not the answer. I'd rather see emby go paid only and drop the concept of a free/limited version than see more features restricted or more perpetual licensing options removed.

I'd like to say that I appreciate all the hard work that goes into development and maintenence. I've gotten a lot of value out of emby over the years. I subscribed to have emby premiere for a long time before I was able to afford the cost of a lifetime license. I'd love to give you guys more money on top of my already purchased license, but I don't want to be locked into a subscription just to be able to share some pictures & videos of my family with extended family without hitting a device limit.

 

[Luke 37066]

Hi, we're not going to be taking away free usage, just to clear that up. Thanks guys.

[unisoft 272]

Lifetime licenses must exist, but could be higher in price than today BUT I wouldn't want the hap hazard way user impacting changes are handled going forward. Things like the crappy side menu that dumps you outside the app with no do you want to exit dialogue. User impacting changes like that are either in a new theme or an option to disable, even if only in a server configuration file setting. The removal of media center theme that was just a simple coloured background, without warning of it. If prices go up, the service needs to improve on proper release notes and upcoming warning of ANY user impacting changes. Dont do a Microsoft marketing team special of cutting the cake a million ways to squeeze money else people will just move to something else. MS lost lots of money by screwing with complicated licensing and those that could, went elsewhere and slowly continue to do so. They still make money but probably not as much as they potentially could have. That's why they focus on cloud services now. Longer conversation, agreed...........

[McMovies 6]

Funny topic. I don't see its adding any value to this forum rather priming user to get ready for paying more in coming days.
The focus should be to repair very basics thing which are seriously broken for the user who already paid for it. 

• tmdb metadata fetching broken. post 4.7.12.0, is hit or miss. but 90% time its a miss. 
• subtitle is broken. i have given up and forced to migrate to bazaar which is working flawlessly.
• how stable/bug-free is v 4.8.xx everyone knows. 

im sick of providing the same log files again and again. fade-up with  "provide-log" loop with zero solution and have decided not to discuss issues further. rather continue mitigating majority of my own issues with 3rd party solution/python-bash scripting at my end. 

We need to do a retrospection and self-realization, else we are not very far from becoming plex. 

This is the same software which was flawless till v4.7.12.x, i used to swear by, and made few of my friend/famaly migrate from plex/jf. It very painful to see the current state. 

Edited March 23 by McMovies

[Ronstang 202]

5 hours ago, McMovies said:

This is the same software which was flawless till v4.7.12.x, i used to swear by, and made few of my friend/famaly migrate from plex/jf. It very painful to see the current state

Yep, I have had nothing but troubles since 4.8 whatever.....and then I keep hearing "we're looking into this" for things I consider a must fix for daily use.  I provided log after log at the beginning of the 4.8 mess and more were requested when no one ever read the ones I had already provided....and kept getting told it was my equipment, until someone else backed me up.   I had to run parallel new and old servers, a total of FOUR (2 beta, 2 stable) to solve all my issue and it looks like I need to start again since perusing the guide in 4.8 is broken, has been for two months and I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

The problem is I love emby and I just want it to work properly again....oh and fix LiveTV since it's garbage which they have a working replacement for yet they won't release.  

[Gilgamesh_48 943]

17 minutes ago, Ronstang said:

...oh and fix LiveTV since it's garbage which they have a working replacement for yet they won't release.  

This is the first I have heard about this. Could you be a bit more specific?

[seanbuff 840]

14 minutes ago, Gilgamesh_48 said:

This is the first I have heard about this. Could you be a bit more specific?

I imagine they're referring to this?

 

[revengineer 125]

Where ever this cost thing is going, I also hope that the lifetime option is not going away. I would not tolerate a monthly payment requirement. 

A low hanging fruit to raise revenue seems to be the TV guide data. I was concerned when this was introduced that the ongoing cost for these data is not sustainable with the lifetime option. The TV guide data are of limited use to me as I need international guides not available through emby, so I pay for these from another source anyway. Perhaps a monthly fee can be charged for these data.

Next, it seems fine to further limit to entirely free use of emby. Perhaps some of these features can be offer in a lite version at reduced lifetime or monthly cost.

If the situation is really dire, one could also move from v4 to v5. My understanding is that lifetime payment is good for v4 updates, so going to v5 would allow hitting existing lifetime users with a one-time upgrade charge at a discounted rate. Of course this is going to stir some anger with some lifetime-payment users, so apply with thought.

[scb99 187]

1. Please keep it simple not with 100s of bits and pieces.

2. I agree with the people who mentioned Live TV / TV Next

3. i also highly prefer a single upfront payment to a monthly sub

4. As and when Emby might suddenly disappear, for whatever reason, I would prefer to lose as little as possible when all the premier / paid for items suddenly stop working because the licence server is gone. Clarity on this point means a lot to me and I would gladly pay more upfront to have this.

PS

when I bought the lifetime sub, many years ago, I thought not how expensive it was but how cheap it was. As I remember, it was 10$ monthly or 100$ (10 months) forever.

I think this pricing was comparable with Plex and probably just a copy. But Plex is a commercialised product with other income streams, and people need to pay a premium for a comparable but non-commercialised product.

When I think how long I have now used Emby, 100$ seems ludicrously cheap. Probably just the support I have received in the meantime has cost you more.

You are in a competitive situation between Plex and JF I know.

But personally I would not find a very large increase in the lifetime, that secured Emby for another 5 years, out of line. Say to 300 which is 2.5 years of monthly.And personally I would pay this without a thought.

Of course, I don’t know not only the reputational but also the legal situation here for Emby.

 

Edited March 24 by scb99

[kikinjo 162]

When you implement :

1. Correct device counting, now it is not correct whatever you say, i can prove it it counts wrongly.

2. Control for emby server owners to manage devices (remove devices)

3. Fix access part for devices in emby UI, now it is completly useless, you cant even deselect all devices rather click one by one.

4. Remove stupid limit "device will not count after around 7 days"

Than you can start talking about new prices. Until than you are making us complete fools.

p.s. soon i will write one longer post about my premiere experience and issues around it mainly in device counting and upgrading to higher tear...so people can see what they can expect

 

 

Edited March 25 by kikinjo

[Luke 37066]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:54 PM, revengineer said:

Where ever this cost thing is going, I also hope that the lifetime option is not going away. I would not tolerate a monthly payment requirement. 

A low hanging fruit to raise revenue seems to be the TV guide data. I was concerned when this was introduced that the ongoing cost for these data is not sustainable with the lifetime option. The TV guide data are of limited use to me as I need international guides not available through emby, so I pay for these from another source anyway. Perhaps a monthly fee can be charged for these data.

Next, it seems fine to further limit to entirely free use of emby. Perhaps some of these features can be offer in a lite version at reduced lifetime or monthly cost.

If the situation is really dire, one could also move from v4 to v5. My understanding is that lifetime payment is good for v4 updates, so going to v5 would allow hitting existing lifetime users with a one-time upgrade charge at a discounted rate. Of course this is going to stir some anger with some lifetime-payment users, so apply with thought.

Hi, do you use Emby Guide Data?