Samsung Tizen TV video artifcats with Emby app version 1.6.6

[SamES 891]

2 hours ago, tattler said:

Hi @SamEShowever I don't see any artifact with other videos when the sound got remuxed and direct playing the video. Just to be clear, I don't have any 4k or HEVC movies, only x264. So your explanation doesn't match what I'm experiencing now. Or did I miss something? 

I've seen this on some x264 files, but it doesn't happen on all videos, so what you are experiencing is correct in that it only happens for some videos.  It probably depends on how the video is encoded.  Most often I see this on 4K/HEVC files but I have seen it on 1080 x264 as well.

[FrostByte 5051]

2 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

I think it's less of a quality issue (lets be honest here, anybody that can tell the audio difference of True-HD over EAC3 on a soundbar with 'projected' Atmos should probably not be investing in a soundbar ... :) - I think it's more of a compatibility issue and all the grief that brings. 

People reasonably expect that their expensive Samsung TV and expensive Samsung Soundbar should be able to play the DVD, Blu-Ray and UHD disk industry Standard higher end Video and Audio codecs (DV, True-HD and DTS-HD) - they probably (rightly) feel a bit peeved when it doesn't. 

True.  Having satellite speakers along with a soundbar helps for surround.  Just like having actual Atmos speakers in the ceiling makes a difference.   Trying to bounce Atmos off the ceiling or walls doesn't compare to actually having speakers over your head for those sounds.

[FrostByte 5051]

2 minutes ago, SamES said:

I've seen this on some x264 files, but it doesn't happen on all videos, so what you are experiencing is correct in that it only happens for some videos.  It probably depends on how the video is encoded.  Most often I see this on 4K/HEVC files but I have seen it on 1080 x264 as well.

I see it a lot more with high bitrate material, 4K remuxes, etc.  Part of the reason I always have an alternate EAC 7.1 track.  EAC 7.1 can actually sound pretty good and always direct plays.

[rbjtech 4274]

2 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

True.  Having satellite speakers along with a soundbar helps for surround.  Just like having actual Atmos speakers in the ceiling makes a difference.   Trying to bounce Atmos off the ceiling or walls doesn't compare to actually having speakers over your head for those sounds.

Agree 100% - yes it took me all day to install my ceiling speakers as I had to totally clear the room above to run the wires lol - but boy was it worth it.   Don't get me wrong, soundbars are amazing vs TV speakers, but they cannot be compared to discreet speakers and AVR's.

[rbjtech 4274]

2 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

I see it a lot more with high bitrate material, 4K remuxes, etc.  Part of the reason I always have an alternate EAC 7.1 track.  EAC 7.1 can actually sound pretty good and always direct plays.

Rather off topic - but how are you converting to EAC3 7.1 - EasyAudioEncoder via PCM extract ?  As ffmpeg doesn't support 7.1, only 5.1 ?

[MacGyver27 17]

11 hours ago, FrostByte said:

The codecs are in the hardware provided by Samsung.  Those are the ones in the chart in your user's manual.  Samsung pretty much supplies all the codecs which the streaming apps use today with the exception of Dolby Vision.  Some of the codecs like AC3 are free and some come at a great cost to Samsung which is why Samsung started HDR10+ because it's free.  Others like Atmos (for DD+) Samsung paid for.

Why in hardware? Isnt it cheaper to buy general hardware and just use software? Like on general PC? I just tested Emby theater app with windows 11 and all goes into direct stream..

 

11 hours ago, FrostByte said:

Yes, agree the Shield is getting long in the tooth and it doesn't support HDR10+ and some of the newer codecs like AV1 which is becoming more popular.  I'm looking for the holy grail myself.

So I have researched a little bit and the best solution would be to buy a mini pc and install Ubuntu there and use Emby theater app (or Kodi, etc.). For the remote controller I found on Ali TV remotes with gyroscope and from the bottom it has a keyboard. Looks pretty neat!

There is also AndroidTV v9 image you can install on general hardware. Not sure how the codes are implemented there though.. Does somebody have experience with it?

As I mentioned I have ordered a Nokia 8010 streaming box based on AndroidTV v11. It comes with a nice TV remote (I hope it can control the volume of the TV). However I am afraid codec wise is not as versatile as PC.

[FrostByte 5051]

3 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Rather off topic - but how are you converting to EAC3 7.1 - EasyAudioEncoder via PCM extract ?  As ffmpeg doesn't support 7.1, only 5.1 ?

Yes, I borrowed the code from R3S3t9999's code to make something a little more tailored and automated for me needs.  It's 90% his code though.  I'm not rich enough to buy a DEE license

 

[rbjtech 4274]

3 minutes ago, MacGyver27 said:

So I have researched a little bit and the best solution would be to buy a mini pc and install Ubuntu there and use Emby theater app (or Kodi, etc.). For the remote controller I found on Ali TV remotes with gyroscope and from the bottom it has a keyboard. Looks pretty neat!

There is also AndroidTV v9 image you can install on general hardware. Not sure how the codes are implemented there though.. Does somebody have experience with it?

As I mentioned I have ordered a Nokia 8010 streaming box based on AndroidTV v11. It comes with a nice TV remote (I hope it can control the volume of the TV). However I am afraid codec wise is not as versatile as PC.

A lot of the decision really depends on how much you value your time - messing about with codecs, updates, hacks, workarounds vs a Shield Pro where you plug it in and it 'just works' because it has mature support has a lot going for it.     Yes I wish they would bring out a new version with HDR10+ and AV1 support - but imho, it's still clinging on as the 'best' streaming box.. 

[FrostByte 5051]

4 minutes ago, MacGyver27 said:

Why in hardware? Isnt it cheaper to buy general hardware and just use software? Like on general PC? I just tested Emby theater app with windows 11 and all goes into direct stream..

 

Not sure why, but I do believe all makers encoders/decoders are on their chips and require a firmware update to change.  I have never updated any Samsung product using a software package like you do with apps.

[MacGyver27 17]

6 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

A lot of the decision really depends on how much you value your time - messing about with codecs, updates, hacks, workarounds vs a Shield Pro where you plug it in and it 'just works' because it has mature support has a lot going for it.     Yes I wish they would bring out a new version with HDR10+ and AV1 support - but imho, it's still clinging on as the 'best' streaming box.. 

Well the point is to solve this for many years to come and dont have to upgrade to another HW because of codecs.. Thants what bothers me into investing money for just certain period of time.. And not talking about wasted time setting it up every time to my personal preferences

Edited November 14, 2023 by MacGyver27

[FrostByte 5051]

Zidoo just sent out a patch to improve their Emby music playback.  The new pro boxes support HDR10+, AV1, and just about everything you would need for the foreseeable future.  They are a little more premium priced though.  This is the one I'm eyeing if they ever fix all the bugs in their new boxes which it looks like they are coming close to.

[FrostByte 5051]

It's rumored Zidoo will add a second HEVC decoder to their boxes coming out next year.  This would be good news for people who have DV 7 FEL format.  There are not a whole lot of choices if you want to play FEL.  Not even the Shield can do that.

[MacGyver27 17]

32 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

It's rumored Zidoo will add a second HEVC decoder to their boxes coming out next year.  This would be good news for people who have DV 7 FEL format.  There are not a whole lot of choices if you want to play FEL.  Not even the Shield can do that.

How their boxes operate? Are you getting firmware updates? So if I would like to have FEL format supported I can go and buy e.g. ZIDOO Z20 PRO and later will get support for it or they will make a completely new box for that? Thanks!

[FrostByte 5051]

44 minutes ago, MacGyver27 said:

How their boxes operate? Are you getting firmware updates? So if I would like to have FEL format supported I can go and buy e.g. ZIDOO Z20 PRO and later will get support for it or they will make a completely new box for that? Thanks!

The Z20 Pro will play files with FEL, but it ignores the FEL just like the Shield does.  They just play the RPU portion of DV7/8 and LLDV from DV5. 

No, if you want to actually play FEL you need a second HEVC decoder/chip which aren't coming out until next year's models.  

Also, since you have a Samsung you need a something like a HD Fury Vortex2 in order to get a DV signal to your TV.  Or, get a new TV which supports DV and has a 12bit panel.  Otherwise, you can't display the 12bit color of FEL.

[rbjtech 4274]

3 hours ago, FrostByte said:

It's rumored Zidoo will add a second HEVC decoder to their boxes coming out next year.  This would be good news for people who have DV 7 FEL format.  There are not a whole lot of choices if you want to play FEL.  Not even the Shield can do that.

I'm really not sure that FEL is going to be worth investing in new hardware - I've done a side by side before - UHD Player (DV7 RPU+FEL) vs Shield Pro (DV7 RPU Only) and I could not tell the difference .. 

[FrostByte 5051]

2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

I'm really not sure that FEL is going to be worth investing in new hardware - I've done a side by side before - UHD Player (DV7 RPU+FEL) vs Shield Pro (DV7 RPU Only) and I could not tell the difference .. 

Hmmm...that's unfortunate   I assume your LG has a 12bit panel.  Or, sometimes manufacturers use a 10bit and a 2bit panel together to get all 68 billion colors.

I believe most are only 10bit, especially the older models. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by FrostByte

[rbjtech 4274]

9 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Hmmm...that's unfortunate   I assume your LG has a 12bit panel.  Or, sometimes manufacturers use a 10bit and a 2bit panel together to get all 68 billion colors.

Pretty sure the majority of Panels are 10bit ? - even the newest 2023 models (not just LG - all panels).  They 'work' with a 12bit source (downsampled), but do not display native 12bit.  Thus FEL really is not going to be fully utilised, if at all - as even if you could decode it, the result will just get displayed on your 10bit 'limited' panel anyway.     Which is probably why I never saw any difference lol .. 

[FrostByte 5051]

Okay, that's what I thought.  I was reading about a Hisense which does some gimmicks with dual panels to simulate 12bits.  Probably too expensive right now to mass produce actual 12bit panels.

[rbjtech 4274]

1 minute ago, FrostByte said:

Okay, that's what I thought.  I was reading about a Hisense which does some gimmicks with dual panels to simulate 12bits.  Probably too expensive right now to mass produce actual 12bit panels.

I think I need an eye upgrade before I would see any difference .. haha 

[tattler 31]

I must say that I can HEAR the difference in sound quality when TRUEHD gets transcoded to AC3 versus built-in AC3 track. The sound stage and loudness is so much better with the transcoded track. This is something interesting. I thought some qualities will be lost during transcoding. Or am I having a placebo effect?

[rbjtech 4274]

2 minutes ago, tattler said:

I must say that I can HEAR the difference in sound quality when TRUEHD gets transcoded to AC3 versus built-in AC3 track. The sound stage and loudness is so much better with the transcoded track. This is something interesting. I thought some qualities will be lost during transcoding. Or am I having a placebo effect?

The original AC3/Dolby Digital track will be far higher quality than any transcoded track - it may be lower volume - but it will have better dynamic range.      It's possible your audio system needs some tweaking - re getting the channel balance setup correctly. 

[FrostByte 5051]

Agree, if it's the original one from UHD mastered at 640kbps using the professional tool Dolby Encoding Engine it should be a better quality than the one transcoded at 384kbps using ffmpeg.

Edited November 15, 2023 by FrostByte

[tattler 31]

20 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

The original AC3/Dolby Digital track will be far higher quality than any transcoded track - it may be lower volume - but it will have better dynamic range.      It's possible your audio system needs some tweaking - re getting the channel balance setup correctly. 

Agreed that the original AC3 must be better than the transcoded track because it is of higher bitrate and more dynamic. So this a placebo effect

I use SONOS as my home theater system... maybe not the audiophile grade sound but I am satisfied with it at the moment. The set up consists of: Playbar + 2 Play Ones as surround + Sub mini. I ran TruePlay on it to sound better. Other than that, I don't understand how I can re-get the channel balance setup correctly...

 

[MacGyver27 17]

On 14/11/2023 at 13:02, FrostByte said:

It's rumored Zidoo will add a second HEVC decoder to their boxes coming out next year.  This would be good news for people who have DV 7 FEL format.  There are not a whole lot of choices if you want to play FEL.  Not even the Shield can do that.

BTW: http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/zidoo-z9x-pro-and-fel-support.97024/#post-205400

[FrostByte 5051]

24 minutes ago, MacGyver27 said:

BTW: http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/zidoo-z9x-pro-and-fel-support.97024/#post-205400

Ahh, thanks.  Mark would know and is the same one who hinted awhile back that a new player may come out next year with dual HEVC.  Was reading another of his recent posts that Dolby since pulled FEL support from their SDKs for everything but physical disc players.  

Even if they did come out with one there is still the problem of finding a TV with a 12bit panel.

I may just go ahead and get their current pro models then because of HDR10+ which my Shield doesn't support.