Samsung Tizen TV video artifcats with Emby app version 1.6.6

[tattler 31]

Hi there,

I experienced some video artifacts (occasionally) while direct-playing an IMAX version of a movie. I have attached the log with the following info:

Samsung model number:

ue70ru7092uxxh

Samsung firmware version:

1406

Samsung Emby client version:

1.6.6

Emby server version:

4.7.14.0

For any playback related issues also include the following:

 

Attach the server and any transcode logs during the time of playback:

Attached

Post a screenshot of the media info from the bottom of the web client:

 

If I played the same movie in Chrome browser (direct-play video) the artifacts are not there so this is definitely an issue with the Tizen Emby app. Can you please take a look at this? Thanks!

 

ffmpeg-remux-acf4e317-4fcb-4d1b-bd19-8401c771ee31_1.txt embyserver.txt

Edited November 13, 2023 by tattler

[tattler 31]

the artifact happened at around 31:40 and I have attached a screenshot here. I can reproduce it every time.

Edited November 13, 2023 by tattler

[MacGyver27 17]

Hey, I came here to report the same problem. I just bought a 77" Samsung QE77S90C and noticed this shattered picture. Movie stars fine but at the very same moment it suddenly gets shattered into total mess - happens to mostly 4k movies.

I just need to understand if this is solvable on the Emby's side, since I have  about 10 days to return the TV for the full refund. I will be glad to assist with anything. Thanks!

Samsung model number: QE77S90C

 

Samsung firmware version: 1220

 

Samsung Emby client version: 1.6.4 (installed from their store)

 

Emby server version: 4.7.14.0

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by MacGyver27

[SamES 891]

Don't play the TrueHD or DTS track if that is not supported by your TV as it will cause remuxing which causes these artifacts.  Select the AC3 track before you start playback (remux will convert the TrueHD or DTS to AC3 anyway, so you're not losing anything by using the built in AC3 track).

It's not a defect with your TV.  I think this might also be resolved for the 4.8 server release when it is released.

Edited November 13, 2023 by SamES

[tattler 31]

54 minutes ago, SamES said:

Don't play the TrueHD or DTS track if that is not supported by your TV as it will cause remuxing which causes these artifacts.  Select the AC3 track before you start playback (remux will convert the TrueHD or DTS to AC3 anyway, so you're not losing anything by using the built in AC3 track).

It's not a defect with your TV.  I think this might also be resolved for the 4.8 server release when it is released.

Hi @SamESthanks for answering but how would you explain why the sound remuxing of TrueHD in Chrome browser does not introduce any artifact but only in the Tizen app? 

Edited November 13, 2023 by tattler

[MacGyver27 17]

Hey, thanks for answering @SamES.

For some movies I have only DTS or TrueHD available format.. so for certain cases is not an option to switch to the different format. However once the 4.8 server version will be released it will be solved once and for all?

Other thing to confirm is that I am using an external Samsung soundbar for the audio (Samsung HW-Q800C) connected via HDMI ARC, which supports Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus. So if the TV supports Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital Plus and my soundbar has support for the TrueHD then the audio should be passthrought to the soundbar?

I am confused here so if somebody can elaborate if soundbar which has the support for TrueHD/DTS will takeover for the audio for the TV which might be missing this TrueHD/DTS compatibility.

As @tattlermentioned this was not happening for the Philips TV and Sony TV which is using Android system. Why then on Tizen?

Much appreciated, thanks!

[FrostByte 5051]

Take a look at the chart in your user's manual which looks like this:

2019 TV Video Specifications | Samsung Developers

Those are all the codecs your TV supports when running apps internally.

Your TV supports Atmos from DD+ because that's what you get from streaming apps like Netflix, etc.  The soundbars supports TrueHD Atmos so you can hook up to a device like a UHD player to the soundbar which will pass the video to the TV.

In order for your TV to passthrough TrueHD and DTS to the soundbar it still needs a decoder which costs money.  Samsung doesn't usually add those because streaming services don't use them and it costs money.  The same reason Samsung TVs don't have DV (they don't want to pay).  If you look at the notes it says you will need to select another audio type if your file contains DTS.  I believe this also holds true for TrueHD still today.

 

There is one easy way to test this out though.  Turn off audio decoding on Emby server.  If TrueHD doesn't play then it needs to be transcoded to something in the chart because your TV doesn't support it when running apps internally.  This is why a lot of people buy something like a Shield and plug it into the HDMI in on the soundbar in order to get HD audio.

Your Sony and Phillips TVs probably support DTS and/or TrueHD.

Edited November 13, 2023 by FrostByte

[FrostByte 5051]

While you're at it, check the chart on subtitles in your manual.  Notice PGS isn't listed either, but a lot of Android devices support PGS.  When running apps from Tizen they will also need to be converted on the fly.

If you can, it's always best to preselect something which is compatible.  Otherwise, your server will need to convert it on the fly and sometimes that can cause lag.

[SamES 891]

7 hours ago, tattler said:

Hi @SamESthanks for answering but how would you explain why the sound remuxing of TrueHD in Chrome browser does not introduce any artifact but only in the Tizen app? 

We see this issue on both Samsung and LG TV's.  When only audio is remuxed, the video is delivered in segments using an m3u8 playlist format so that the audio conversion can be done on the fly, otherwise you would need to wait for the whole conversion to complete before you could start playback.

To do this, ffmpeg on the server slices up the video stream, but for some reason with 4K HEVC these segments don't always play correctly on Samsung and LG TV's when they're reassembled - this is what causes the artifacts.  There have been some updates to ffmpeg in 4.8 beta and in my recent tests on files that I have that I know will always cause this issue it appears to be resolved.  I've also noticed that not every OS version of the beta server has the exact same ffmpeg update, so just switching to beta doesn't guarantee this to be resolve it for you, but I expect that once it is officially released all platforms will have the same ffmpeg version and hopefully you don't see this issue any longer.

Chrome browser is probably more tolerant to the old method of slicing up the video, so I can only guess that that's why it doesn't have the same artifacts.  

@MacGyver27You can try this to add an ac3 track as an additional track to the existing file 

 

 

[tattler 31]

Hi @SamESI tried your suggestion and tested the movie with AC3 audio. No video artifact. This is unfortunately a workaround and not a solution. 

When playing the movie file (see 1st post) on Emby Tizen (1.6.6) there is a noticeable artifact (IMAX version). Audio got transcoded to AC3 but video got direct played! In Chrome browser the same video direct played with transcoded audio to mp3 does not have the artifact. So this leads me to think the culprit is in the Tizen version.

@FrostByteI have indeed a 2019 Samsung TV but my issue is not with the audio, that must be for @MacGyver27I don't have issues with audio as I am happy that Emby transcodes TRUEHD to AC3 instead of AAC in Plex! 

It still baffles me as why the direct played video has artifact on the Tizen version....

[SamES 891]

8 minutes ago, tattler said:

Hi @SamESI tried your suggestion and tested the movie with AC3 audio. No video artifact. This is unfortunately a workaround and not a solution. 

When playing the movie file (see 1st post) on Emby Tizen (1.6.6) there is a noticeable artifact (IMAX version). Audio got transcoded to AC3 but video got direct played! In Chrome browser the same video direct played with transcoded audio to mp3 does not have the artifact. So this leads me to think the culprit is in the Tizen version.

@FrostByteI have indeed a 2019 Samsung TV but my issue is not with the audio, that must be for @MacGyver27I don't have issues with audio as I am happy that Emby transcodes TRUEHD to AC3 instead of AAC in Plex! 

It still baffles me as why the direct played video has artifact on the Tizen version....

See my last post, it's converting the TrueHD/DTS audio that causes the video artifacts.

Yes, it is a work-around, but if the server is converting the lossless audio to AC3, then using the 'mastered' AC3 track already in the file should be a better solution if it means the whole file can direct play.

We can't fix the TV, it plays how it plays, but as mentioned I think this might be fixed in the 4.8 official release when it comes.

[FrostByte 5051]

3 minutes ago, tattler said:

Hi @SamESI tried your suggestion and tested the movie with AC3 audio. No video artifact. This is unfortunately a workaround and not a solution. 

When playing the movie file (see 1st post) on Emby Tizen (1.6.6) there is a noticeable artifact (IMAX version). Audio got transcoded to AC3 but video got direct played! In Chrome browser the same video direct played with transcoded audio to mp3 does not have the artifact. So this leads me to think the culprit is in the Tizen version.

@FrostByteI have indeed a 2019 Samsung TV but my issue is not with the audio, that must be for @MacGyver27I don't have issues with audio as I am happy that Emby transcodes TRUEHD to AC3 instead of AAC in Plex! 

It still baffles me as why the direct played video has artifact on the Tizen version....

In your log is says 

TranscodeReasons=AudioCodecNotSupported

You also said "I tried your suggestion and tested the movie with AC3 audio. No video artifact."

What SamES is saying is that it's the conversion of the audio that's causing the artifacts whether the video is still direct playing, or not.  Why this happens with the Tizen app he will have to explain 

 

 

[FrostByte 5051]

1 minute ago, SamES said:

See my last post, it's converting the TrueHD/DTS audio that causes the video artifacts.

Yes, it is a work-around, but if the server is converting the lossless audio to AC3, then using the 'mastered' AC3 track already in the file should be a better solution if it means the whole file can direct play.

We can't fix the TV, it plays how it plays, but as mentioned I think this might be fixed in the 4.8 official release when it comes.

Oops, beat me.

The original AC3 ahould be a lot better.  Not only does the server not have to convert it, but the original is probably 640kbps where the transcoded one will be 384kbps.

[tattler 31]

3 minutes ago, SamES said:

See my last post, it's converting the TrueHD/DTS audio that causes the video artifacts.

Yes, it is a work-around, but if the server is converting the lossless audio to AC3, then using the 'mastered' AC3 track already in the file should be a better solution if it means the whole file can direct play.

We can't fix the TV, it plays how it plays, but as mentioned I think this might be fixed in the 4.8 official release when it comes.

Ah @SamESthank you so much for this elaborate explanation. Now I understand this is a shortcoming of Samsung TV. Thank you !!

[tattler 31]

2 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Oops, beat me.

The original AC3 ahould be a lot better.  Not only does the server not have to convert it, but the original is probably 640kbps where the transcoded one will be 384kbps.

Yes you are right! The transcoded one is of lower quality ;-( Will version 4.8 bump up the quality? I really hope so! The main reason I switched to Emby is it transcodes HD audio to AC3 instead of AAC in Plex. That was really disgusting! 

[FrostByte 5051]

All my TrueHD Atmos movies have an alternate EAC 7.1 so I've not really tested it before on 4.8 beta.   I just started playing Spider-man Across the Spider Verse now and can say that it still coverts to 384kbps AC3 though.

I do believe there is a FR asking that this be a user configurable setting though.

 

[FrostByte 5051]

Actually, since this movie is animated maybe I won't see any artifacts.  So far it's been good almost 10 minutes into though.  I know SamES is also on the 4.8 beta I suppose he would know if it fixes the issue.

[MacGyver27 17]

6 hours ago, FrostByte said:

Take a look at the chart in your user's manual which looks like this:

2019 TV Video Specifications | Samsung Developers

Those are all the codecs your TV supports when running apps internally.

Your TV supports Atmos from DD+ because that's what you get from streaming apps like Netflix, etc.  The soundbars supports TrueHD Atmos so you can hook up to a device like a UHD player to the soundbar which will pass the video to the TV.

In order for your TV to passthrough TrueHD and DTS to the soundbar it still needs a decoder which costs money.  Samsung doesn't usually add those because streaming services don't use them and it costs money.  The same reason Samsung TVs don't have DV (they don't want to pay).  If you look at the notes it says you will need to select another audio type if your file contains DTS.  I believe this also holds true for TrueHD still today.

Thanks for elaborating and thorough explanation. Now the simple question - why don't the streaming apps come with the codecs then? I believe it doesnt matter which side provides the codecs right? Or is it the money question again?

Or they should allow users to install various codecs via their store - so user will pay himself.
 

6 hours ago, FrostByte said:

There is one easy way to test this out though.  Turn off audio decoding on Emby server.  If TrueHD doesn't play then it needs to be transcoded to something in the chart because your TV doesn't support it when running apps internally.  This is why a lot of people buy something like a Shield and plug it into the HDMI in on the soundbar in order to get HD audio.

Your Sony and Phillips TVs probably support DTS and/or TrueHD.

I am really considering this now. Just found out this 3500€ TV has only 100mbps NIC.. really in 2023?? Thought Fast Ethernet era ended like decade ago..

Anyway Nvidia shield is pretty old nowadays, but found the Nokia Android Box 8010, seems more powerful and half the price. Or I was thinking of a minipc and putting some TV linux system there, any suggestions?

Thanks for discussing with us!

[FrostByte 5051]

The codecs are in the hardware provided by Samsung.  Those are the ones in the chart in your user's manual.  Samsung pretty much supplies all the codecs which the streaming apps use today with the exception of Dolby Vision.  Some of the codecs like AC3 are free and some come at a great cost to Samsung which is why Samsung started HDR10+ because it's free.  Others like Atmos (for DD+) Samsung paid for.

If Samsung paid Dolby for DV license they probably could send firmware updates to everyone, but I wouldn't expect that.

Now is it possible that Emby and the others like it to provide codecs.  I don't think so, but even if that was possible, I can't see that being profitable to Emby if Samsung can't pay for it. 

I doubt the online streaming apps like Netflix will use HD audio until a lot more people get fiber to the home.  If it were profitable though and they could charge extra, I'm sure they would.

There is at least one streaming service I know of which uses HD audio now.  Sony's own Bravia Core service which requires a 115 Mbps connection.  This may be why some Sony TVs still come with HD audio codecs because they stream full UHD Sony movies through their own service.

Samsung dropped DTS in 2018 and I believe LG dropped it shortly after.  By removing DTS from their TVs I'm sure both saved a lot of money.

Yes, agree the Shield is getting long in the tooth and it doesn't support HDR10+ and some of the newer codecs like AV1 which is becoming more popular.  I'm looking for the holy grail myself.

Edited November 14, 2023 by FrostByte

[tattler 31]

12 hours ago, SamES said:

We see this issue on both Samsung and LG TV's.  When only audio is remuxed, the video is delivered in segments using an m3u8 playlist format so that the audio conversion can be done on the fly, otherwise you would need to wait for the whole conversion to complete before you could start playback.

To do this, ffmpeg on the server slices up the video stream, but for some reason with 4K HEVC these segments don't always play correctly on Samsung and LG TV's when they're reassembled - this is what causes the artifacts.  There have been some updates to ffmpeg in 4.8 beta and in my recent tests on files that I have that I know will always cause this issue it appears to be resolved.  I've also noticed that not every OS version of the beta server has the exact same ffmpeg update, so just switching to beta doesn't guarantee this to be resolve it for you, but I expect that once it is officially released all platforms will have the same ffmpeg version and hopefully you don't see this issue any longer.

Chrome browser is probably more tolerant to the old method of slicing up the video, so I can only guess that that's why it doesn't have the same artifacts.  

@MacGyver27You can try this to add an ac3 track as an additional track to the existing file 

 

 

Hi @SamEShowever I don't see any artifact with other videos when the sound got remuxed and direct playing the video. Just to be clear, I don't have any 4k or HEVC movies, only x264. So your explanation doesn't match what I'm experiencing now. Or did I miss something? 

[rbjtech 4275]

10 hours ago, FrostByte said:

Samsung dropped DTS in 2018 and I believe LG dropped it shortly after.  By removing DTS from their TVs I'm sure both saved a lot of money.

FYI - 2023+ higher end LG TV's now have DTS support again.  It all boils down to licensing and $ ...

Edited November 14, 2023 by rbjtech

[FrostByte 5051]

2 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

FYI - 2023+ higher end LG TV's now have DTS support again.  It all boils down to licensing and $ ...

Ahh, that's good news.  An incentive to purchase the more expensive sets I suppose. 

Samsung should do something similar with DV.  They try to save a $ wherever they can, but that one has got to hurt their sales just a little.

[FrostByte 5051]

Another thing about adding HD audio to TVs is that it would probably hurt the sale of their soundbars.  Unless you added some real good speakers to the TV to balance the loss.

[rbjtech 4275]

13 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Ahh, that's good news.  An incentive to purchase the more expensive sets I suppose. 

Samsung should do something similar with DV.  They try to save a $ wherever they can, but that one has got to hurt their sales just a little.

I haven't bought a Samsung TV in years because of it.    For all my secondary TV's - I now buy Panasonic - because they support DV and DTS out the box, even on low end TV's - as they should being mainstream video and audio codecs...

Edited November 14, 2023 by rbjtech

[rbjtech 4275]

18 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Another thing about adding HD audio to TVs is that it would probably hurt the sale of their soundbars.  Unless you added some real good speakers to the TV to balance the loss.

I think it's less of a quality issue (lets be honest here, anybody that can tell the audio difference of True-HD over EAC3 on a soundbar with 'projected' Atmos should probably not be investing in a soundbar ... :) - I think it's more of a compatibility issue and all the grief that brings. 

People reasonably expect that their expensive Samsung TV and expensive Samsung Soundbar should be able to play the DVD, Blu-Ray and UHD disk industry Standard higher end Video and Audio codecs (DV, True-HD and DTS-HD) - they probably (rightly) feel a bit peeved when it doesn't.   I believe the per device 'license' to do so, is a tiny $1-2, so it's a corporation decision.  I'm pretty sure people would be more than happy to pay the extra for a device that supports all the codecs ...  

Edited November 14, 2023 by rbjtech