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Still no HDR on Apple TV 4K


Lexizilla
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Hi,

is it still the case, that the Emby App on the Apple TV 4K is not able to play HDR Content ?

Is the Devolpment Team working on it ?

When I using Infuse connected to Emby, the Movie is direct playing and my TV switching to HDR Mode
If I´m using the Emby App ( I like the GUI more, then those from Infuse) Emby Server switching to Hardware Transcoding Mode and I don´t get HDR.

For know I pay for Emby and for Infuse, that feels not correct. Special when a 3rd Party App is working better then the native Emby App

 

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I think a lot of the issue is that the Apple TV doesn't play a lot of those files natively. So if it's an .mkv file (assuming it is for HDR) there's got to be some transcoding going on. Infuse does that by just changing the container (which Emby can do as well). I'm an Apple TV person myself and I hope this is in development for them sooner than later. It should be something that should be done... and then adding in HDR tonemapping so I don't have to have both 4k and 1080p versions of movies/shows would be great too. Lot's of stuff on the horizon that I think Emby is working on. 

Personally though I love Infuse as I've used it more and more. 

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The dev team is small and the problems with Apple TV are monumental, from every single post about it.  They have been working on the problem for 2+ years.  Using Infuse is the best way to watch HDR content on an Apple TV.  Infuse paid Apple for the licences they need in order to have their app working 100%.  Even Plex still has issues, and only has HDR available for plexpass users.  Jellyfin HAHAHA.  This is what happens when you purchase a device from a company that locks you out of your own content and controls everything with an iron fist and refuses to allow you to play your own media.  If you want a better experience, I would personally suggest an Android device like a Shield or FireTV.

As for tonemapping, it's coming, but you need relatively modern hardware and can't have a potato of a server.

I am just an informed user who has been here for years and I have over 2 decades of encoding and media experience.  

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I agree that the problems with the Apple TV are monumental for Emby. I own both a Fire TV and a Shield Pro (2019) as well as Rokus and other devices. Minus Emby, the experience on the Apple TV 4k blows away the others minus maybe the Shield. The Shield and the Apple TV 4k stand head to head above everyone else when it comes to image quality, audio quality and more. I just wish that the Emby experience was the same on all platforms. It’s different on the Apple TV then it is on the Shield. It’s also different on Roku. One of the things I like about Plex, or hell even Netflix, Hulu, Disney + etc is that all their apps are uniform across the board. If I log in to plex on any of those devices, they look identical to each other and that makes for a proper and consistent UI.

I also agree that the dev team is small and I love what they do here at Emby. You will not find a bigger supporter of the product than myself. I just personally believe that before you launch something (new client, new server, etc) you have to make sure it’s fully working before it goes out. Otherwise it’s nothing more than a fine tuned beta in my opinion. All of their clients should work just as well as the others, minus any hardware limitations. 

 

And yes.... Jellyfin HAHAHAHAHA - but they do seem to have the HDR tone mapping done better than even Plex does at this point which is pretty damn impressive. 

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9 hours ago, sross44 said:

It’s also different on Roku.

Hi.  The interfaces on Shield and Roku should be nearly identical at this point.  What are you seeing that is different?

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11 hours ago, sross44 said:

 I just wish that the Emby experience was the same on all platforms. It’s different on the Apple TV then it is on the Shield. It’s also different on Roku. One of the things I like about Plex, or hell even Netflix, Hulu, Disney + etc is that all their apps are uniform across the board. If I log in to plex on any of those devices, they look identical to each other and that makes for a proper and consistent UI.

Uniform across the board. I like that statement. The Roku needs to be uniform across the board compared to Android TV. I agree. ^_^

Edited by speechles
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2 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  The interfaces on Shield and Roku should be nearly identical at this point.  What are you seeing that is different?

Just a few little differences. The biggest thing would be the settings side of things. When looking at all your movies for example, on the Roku the images are a touch bigger with the movie posters being square. On the shield they're slightly rounded. It's little things like that, but it does make a world of difference when looking at uniformity across clients. When we have software rollouts at work, the biggest things I drive home to my teams are execution, consistency and usability. Meaning, make sure it works as intended from day one. Make sure that it's a consistent user experience and make sure that it's the same to use no matter how you're accessing the data etc. Obviously more to it than that... but I think I just look at Emby through my "program manager eyes". 

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19 hours ago, RanmaCanada said:

  Infuse paid Apple for the licences they need in order to have their app working 100%.

Where does this information come from ?

I´m devolping apps for Apple as well. There are no optioons to buy a licence to get "more" possibilitys to use the Apple APIs. The only difference is, that Infuse is only devoloping software for iOS, so there knowdlege in devolping apps for Apple will be is much higher then from the Emeby Team.

There are also some other small devoleper, like the one man show MrMc App, that is able to play MKV Files with HDR correct.

So in the End, there are APIs available to use the full power of the Apple TV, you "only" need to integrate it in your own written app...

In my opinon, first you should work on the technical part, like playing the most known video and audio files as best as possible. When that will be fine, spend your time on details, like the GUI and so on...

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5 minutes ago, Lexizilla said:

Where does this information come from ?

I´m devolping apps for Apple as well. There are no optioons to buy a licence to get "more" possibilitys to use the Apple APIs. The only difference is, that Infuse is only devoloping software for iOS, so there knowdlege in devolping apps for Apple will be is much higher then from the Emeby Team.

There are also some other small devoleper, like the one man show MrMc App, that is able to play MKV Files with HDR correct.

So in the End, there are APIs available to use the full power of the Apple TV, you "only" need to integrate it in your own written app...

In my opinon, first you should work on the technical part, like playing the most known video and audio files as best as possible. When that will be fine, spend your time on details, like the GUI and so on...

I think they just made that up lol. As you stated there's no "buying licenses" to use the APIs. Also 100% agree that the technical part should be completely ironed out before worrying about the UI. At the same time, when launching a "finished" product, they should go hand in hand to some extent. When a client looks completely different from your others, as the Apple TV version of Emby does compared to Fire TV, Smart TVs, Android, Roku etc, it looks almost like a half ass attempt to put something together just to have it there. I'm not saying that's the case with Emby... but that is how a lot of Apple TV Emby users feel. 

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2 hours ago, sross44 said:

Just a few little differences. The biggest thing would be the settings side of things. When looking at all your movies for example, on the Roku the images are a touch bigger with the movie posters being square. On the shield they're slightly rounded. It's little things like that, but it does make a world of difference when looking at uniformity across clients.

What if it could be exactly like Android TV on the Roku?

The zooming focus with green Emby highlight.
The rounded corners on posters.
The edge-to-edge look the rows have.

What if these differences disappeared and the Roku looked and felt exactly like Android TV? Would there be more love for the Roku?

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2 hours ago, speechles said:

What if it could be exactly like Android TV on the Roku?

The zooming focus with green Emby highlight.
The rounded corners on posters.
The edge-to-edge look the rows have.

What if these differences disappeared and the Roku looked and felt exactly like Android TV? Would there be more love for the Roku?

To me it's not about more love or not.... it's simply about consistency. I'd like to have the same feature set across all platforms. In an ideal world the user experience should be the same, regardless of client used. Most people don't go out and buy 5 different streaming devices lol. I'm a little crazy and like to try them all out... but most people are going to use Emby on whatever they have and they'll know no different. So Roku users will use Roku, Shield users use Android etc etc... Just saying it'd be awesome to have a client agnostic interface for all users. 

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4 minutes ago, sross44 said:

 

To me it's not about more love or not.... it's simply about consistency. I'd like to have the same feature set across all platforms. In an ideal world the user experience should be the same, regardless of client used. Most people don't go out and buy 5 different streaming devices lol. I'm a little crazy and like to try them all out... but most people are going to use Emby on whatever they have and they'll know no different. So Roku users will use Roku, Shield users use Android etc etc... Just saying it'd be awesome to have a client agnostic interface for all users. 

You will be happy if you chose Roku. You will get your wish. I cannot really say more. But trust me on this one. ;)

Android TV is the model. All TV clients aspire to look and feel just like it. How close they can get is up to the limits of each platform.

Edited by speechles
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1 hour ago, speechles said:

You will be happy if you chose Roku. You will get your wish. I cannot really say more. But trust me on this one. ;)

Android TV is the model. All TV clients aspire to look and feel just like it. How close they can get is up to the limits of each platform.

You guys rock. Like I said, my project management background has me looking at Emby through that lens and I know you guys are all doing everything you can to make this the best product out there. Can't wait to see what comes from the Roku and more. 

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@sross44 Thanks for the kind words. Very soon you will confuse the Roku UI with the Android TV UI. We will blur the line and you shall find it hard to tell the two platforms apart. That is the intent going forward. More Emby less Roku/Android TV. ^_^

Edited by speechles
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29 minutes ago, speechles said:

@sross44 Thanks for the kind words. Very soon you will confuse the Roku UI with the Android TV UI. We will blur the line and you shall find it hard to tell the two platforms apart. That is the intent going forward. More Emby less Roku/Android TV. ^_^

This is awesome news! Now... can you also get the folks on the Apple TV side working on that too? hahaha 

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On 2/19/2021 at 12:38 AM, sross44 said:

This is awesome news! Now... can you also get the folks on the Apple TV side working on that too? hahaha 

There is no need for uniformity, in my opinion the application design should match the target platform, the problem of Emby for Apple TV is another, the lack of functionality, to name a few:

  1. Native player: Lack of visual seek and visual chapter navigation, while direct streaming or transcoding
  2. Native player: Lack of fMP4 streaming (server limitation), so MKV HEVC streaming is not supported for Apple devices
  3. MPV Player: Lack of framerate and dynamic range match
  4. MPV Player: Lack of HDR passthrough
  5. MPV Player: Lack of DTS decode
  6. MPV Player: Lack of visual seek and visual chapter navigation

It has been many years with these requests. Users tend to use Infuse or Plex. Just note that there are fewer and fewer active users on the Emby Apple TV beta forum.

It is true that the application has been improved, but not enough.

Edited by vdatanet
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36 minutes ago, vdatanet said:

It has been many years with these requests. Users tend to use Infuse or Plex. Just note that there are fewer and fewer active users on the Emby Apple TV beta forum.

It is true that the application has been improved, but not enough.

I totally agree.

While we’ve seen quite a few changes and additions to the Apple TV app, there’s been essentially no work done on improving the video playback experience, which is the main purpose of the app. It’s just a bit strange how the experience is better on a third party app than the first party one, and it’s been this way for quite a while too.

Edited by samuelqwe
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On 2/21/2021 at 3:39 AM, vdatanet said:

 

It has been many years with these requests. Users tend to use Infuse or Plex. Just note that there are fewer and fewer active users on the Emby Apple TV beta forum.

It is true that the application has been improved, but not enough.

Sadly I just see Apple TV being something of high importance for these guys. Maybe I’m wrong but other apps leave them in the dust when it comes to video playback. Sadly Plex is one of them. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, kerafyrm said:

I do not know why a media player can't do 4k HDR H265 well in Apple TV 4K, it's a basic feature.

Unfortunately like I said above, as much as I love Emby... the Apple TV player isn't nearly as important as some of the other players to the Emby development team at this point. At least that's how it seems. I love Emby and run it as my main media server, I just have to use Infuse as my media player on the TV's that use Apple TV. Live TV is another issue but for media playback that's my set up. Not ideal, but it does work. 

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  • 1 month later...

Will this become available soon on the new generation 4K Apple TV, knowing that the native player now supports HDR? 

Edited by Yorin01
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22 minutes ago, Yorin01 said:

Will this become available soon on the new generation 4K Apple TV, knowing that the native player now supports HDR? 

HDR is only supported using native player in MP4 container. MKV HEVC HDR streaming requires HLS fMP4 and Emby does not support that. I don't think there are differences with the new Apple TV, it just has a more powerful processor.

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Thanks.

So I can better stick with my android streaming box from my provider :( 

I wanted to buy Apple TV to use with my HomePods... and use Emby on Apple TV , but I have more and more HVEC HDR mkv files to stream. On my current setup box these files are direct played.

Any chance this feature will become available in the future on Emby for Apple TV?

 

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5 minutes ago, Yorin01 said:

Any chance this feature will become available in the future on Emby for Apple TV?

Good question

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RanmaCanada
1 hour ago, Yorin01 said:

Any chance this feature will become available in the future on Emby for Apple TV?

 

You will have to ask Apple that question.  Will they support the native playback of MKV files or will they continue to refuse to use this open standard and stick with mp4.  Since Apple LOVES to make their devices force you to use their content, the answer is more than likely a big no, as introducing mkv support would open the floodgates to media piracy.  At least that is what they are probably thinking.  I would not be surprised if the new box makes it even more difficult to play your own content.

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