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Dlarge
Posted (edited)

1. Well there is the possibility to make this switchable via the settings.ūüėČ

2. You could have an arrow pointing down so that everyone can see it.

Edited by Dlarge
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ebr

The visibility issue you pointed out in the grid is why backdrops are off by default while browsing.  Some people like this but how good it looks depends a lot on the particular backdrop and, when we darken it or blur it, people that like it complain that there is no point in having the backdrop.  For most users, this is never an issue because they never turn this option on.

The other items you pointed out are common and recommended design techniques to make it obvious that there is content to scroll to.  Interfaces no longer use arrows and such for this purpose.  Instead they use partial content.  This is actually one of the design guidelines for publishing an Android TV app.

Thanks.

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ebr
8 hours ago, Dlarge said:

Pls center the Filename Filename information

Look at all the other apps on your Android TV device - Netflix, YouTube, even the home screen of the device itself...

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Dlarge

I can tell we are not really getting anywhere here. I just use the competition, they are light years ahead in terms of design.

How can you be satisfied with such a product? As I said, the web and mobile versions just look great, but the AndroidTV / FireTV app is an impertinence.

You really struggle so hard against change, which is a shame.

Thanks anyway.

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CBers
3 hours ago, Dlarge said:

I can tell we are not really getting anywhere here. I just use the competition, they are light years ahead in terms of design.

How can you be satisfied with such a product? As I said, the web and mobile versions just look great, but the AndroidTV / FireTV app is an impertinence.

You really struggle so hard against change, which is a shame.

Thanks anyway.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you here. 

The Emby ATV app is far superior to the Plex ATV app and don't even get me started on JF. 

The android mobile app looks good on a phone or tablet, but not on a 65" TV. 

I don't want the web client on my TV. If I did, I'd have a HTPC connected to it. 

Have you tried the Emby mobile app on your Android TV device? Perhaps you'll prefer it. 

 

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lightsout
On 7/18/2020 at 6:35 AM, RS43 said:

I am referring to Apple theme on Android TV App..

 

First picture is Mobile App installed on Shield TV.. however this app needs some work to have a smooth work on android TV..

Second picture is Emby app on android TV with Apple TV theme.. looks very old design to me and difficult to read. 

So why are the colours more bright with Mobile app on shield TV and not for Emby App on Shield TV.. both are same TV

3rd picture Emby App on Shield TV

4rd picture Mobile App on Shield TV.. looks more modern to me

 

20200718_152508.jpg

20200718_152332.jpg

20200718_152820.jpg

20200718_152656.jpg

Have to agree here #2 looks way better than #1. Much cleaner, the details screen on Android TV always felt unpolished to me.

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Dlarge

what do you think looks so bad about the web version on TV?

The AndroidTV version just looks stale and is not up to date. If I have learned one thing in my time as a programmer at MediaPortal and Plex, it is the uniformity of the apps. And not that some apps have an absolutely unprofessional design.

We're no longer on Android 2

I would be embarrassed to release something like that as a designer. But all is well, then unfortunately Kodi or Plex must serve. Or I buy an ATV because this designer places more emphasis on the design.

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CBers
9 minutes ago, Dlarge said:

what do you think looks so bad about the web version on TV?

It's horrible and belongs only on a PC. 

I just don't understand your view, it makes no sense. 

The Plex ATV app is horrible, like its still running in Windows 95.

Well just have to agree to disagree¬†ūüėÄ

 

 

Edited by CBers
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arrbee99

I'm not a designer, but am pretty happy with the Android TV version. However, if you really don't like it, it might be worth using Emby as a back-end to Kodi.

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arrbee99
2 minutes ago, CBers said:

It's horrible and belongs only on a PC. 

I just don't understand your view, it makes no sense. 

The Plex ATV app is horrible, like its still running in Windows 95.

 

The web version on TV. I guess thats the same as the web version anywhere ? People like different things, I like it a lot better with some css added...

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p√ľnktchen

What hurts my eyes the most on the Android TV version are margins and especially alignment.

Oh man, all things are jumping around with the different screens¬†ūüėĶ¬†Or just look at the movie details screen where with every line the items move a little bit more to the right side. I can provide a psd file with layers for the different screens. There one can see it's an absolute disaster.

 

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RS43
1 minute ago, p√ľnktchen said:

What hurts my eyes the most on the Android TV version are margins and especially alignment.

Oh man, all things are jumping around with the different screens¬†ūüėĶ¬†Or just look at the movie details screen where with every line the items move a little bit more to the right side. I can provide a psd file with layers for the different screens. There one can see it's an absolute disaster.

 

Honestly, I agree on this. Emby should give more love to the design of ATV. I think by just looking to the setting page it does say a lot reg design as it looks like Windows 95.. the design team should acknowledge this at least and perhaps say in about 3 yrs we will look at this rather than saying the design looks modern and clean.. this way people know they are taken seriously

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Luke

Can you be more specific about what areas you don't like?

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p√ľnktchen
23 minutes ago, Luke said:

Can you be more specific about what areas you don't like?

Are you talking to me? Here's one example:

movie_details.thumb.png.175e0f70c0bc9291af5cc7e089a6d9bf.png

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seanbuff

I would have to agree with margin alignment, there are numerous times where things just don't line up properly.

First row has a nice comfortable spacing between text and cover
image.png.fd90bc7273b1d69f9eb42cefc3e9393e.png

As soon as you scroll down to the next row, that spacing becomes almost nothing.
image.png.1652c1f8a43b91b14d8481d52b658880.png

 

image.thumb.png.c75580973da7c32c23f1cdd5b9d3bfbc.png

Left side alpha picker and right side bar don't line up with anything (i'm guessing this is because of that top row boundary moving)

"Grid view" horizontal margin doesn't match the vertical margin (presumably because titles are disabled) these should ideally dynamically adjust to compensate.

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Luke
1 hour ago, p√ľnktchen said:

Are you talking to me? Here's one example:

movie_details.thumb.png.175e0f70c0bc9291af5cc7e089a6d9bf.png

Can you elaborate?

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p√ľnktchen

Just look at the pink lines, they should be in line on not like a stairway. (The red lines is the common margin that is defined through the top bar on the homescreen or the clock in this picture)

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Dlarge
Posted (edited)
It is really a shame to see how the AndroidTv app is treated without love.
 
I look at it every day and annoy myself not having any other hardware every day to no longer have this terrific design.
 
It is sad that I am not spared on my FireTv Sticks.
 
If this is possible, it might be advisable to get help. I don't know exactly who is working on the AndroidTV app, but this has nothing to do with design.
I also don't understand why new functions are being resisted. Everything can be made switchable so that the user can decide.
 
IMG_20200803_215239.thumb.jpg.e648f3c326e9a84275646ed4294db3d4.jpg
 
Seriously, you really like that, it looks like a beginner designed it. I can still make 10 screenshots where it looks really crappy
This is just an example, I showed you so many things and everything is somehow justified that it must look so bad or not or whatever.
 
2.thumb.png.36b924950b08a9e1c03a234b5de06151.png
 
1.thumb.png.6671e36c35eee4f953919b09be44439a.png
 
This is fresh modern design in 2020.
You shouldn't do everything 1:1 either, I never said that. But the old graphics and decent arrangements aren't too much to ask.
 
Switchable that you have backdrops or not and with or without overlay. finished
 
My screenshots alone are reason enough to act.
I understand that you defend your work but with the AndroidTV app you do not spatter yourself with glory, sorry.
 

Please, please don't get me wrong, but AndroidTV / FireTV make up 70-80% of the device surface that is used.

Unfortunately, this is the worst looking app at Emby. It is all a matter of taste but you should not defend yourself against programming and design errors!!!

You don't even get the same themes available as on the web and Windows app.

What is the difference between Dark Theme and Classic. Leave the Emby Classic for users who like the ancient design and modernize the dark theme.

Dark theme with red accents is missing on AndroidTV for example.

Edited by Dlarge
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cayars
14 hours ago, p√ľnktchen said:

Are you talking to me? Here's one example:

movie_details.thumb.png.175e0f70c0bc9291af5cc7e089a6d9bf.png

I can translate, as I've commented about this type of thing in the past as well. Placement of objects on the screen is almost arbitrary without alignment to other objects on the screen.

In looking at the above there is one item that I see that could "wonder" a bit and that's the movie image on the right "With logo margin Going in style".  Since it's an image with a transparent background you could never really flush right it consistently.

The page doesn't have balance from left to right.  Far more left space then right space, hence the red cross hatches to show a constant margin that could be used.

The button row should either be aligned left with the paragraph of text above it or centered under the text block.  The length (run time) and clock aren't flush right.

The size of the movie posters is of course calculated and depend on screen resolution but need to take into account the left and right border to make them flush and adjust the amount of spacing between posters to push them wider so they would be flush with the red border.

The whole set of text could start much higher on the page instead of roughly the middle to fit more on the screen including the first set of posters.

In the above picture as far as the red margin is concerned only the clock is in the correct position on the page and everything else is out of balance to one another.

Edited by cayars
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ebr

As for the alignment -  on the left that is actually by design as it is sub-information with a slight indent.  We could certainly change it if is such a problem though.

As for the right margin with the logo - that is impossible to control as we have no idea the shape, size or padding of any particular logo so it is centered in a particular area.

As for the vertical margin when that information line is there - that information line is non-standard and off by default.  It may be going away entirely but, I agree, if there, we should allow a little more margin with it. 

As for the overall layout of the detail screen. I also don't really follow why the layout that the web app currently uses (repeating the poster you just clicked on and obscuring the backdrop almost entirely) feels more "modern" than the layout in the TV app - which gives you big logo art instead of repeated box art and tries to emphasize the backdrop because this is displayed on your 65" TV.  That layout was designed fairly recently with the feedback of many Emby users at the time.

When you're on web/mobile, the information is key but when on a TV the artwork and presentation are emphasized more.  These are specific design goals as opposed to an "old" design (the TV layout is actually newer).

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Dlarge
Posted (edited)

As I said, I didn't say you should do the full design 1: 1. It's about the old graphics and smaller layouts that improve everything.

I also don't think of covering everything in the detail screen. But the fanart should be changed in the film and series list.

Somehow I can’t fully understand why you have such problems understanding us.

It's about that the background with the fanart is too visible. It has something to do with design. The overall picture is simply unprofessional and restless. There shouldn't be a fanart boxset or anything else. There should be a slight overlay over it. Make it switchable then everyone can choose whether they want it or not.

I've made enough suggestions. Something will be there that convinces you to take it over.ūüėÜ

Edited by Dlarge
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arrbee99
7 hours ago, cayars said:

The whole set of text could start much higher on the page instead of roughly the middle to fit more on the screen including the first set of posters.

No thanks. As @ebr said 'tries to emphasize the backdrop because this is displayed on your 65" TV.  That layout was designed fairly recently with the feedback of many Emby users at the time.' The new layout is better. You've probably just come from a display full of posters so why show it again when you can have a logo and see more of the backdrop. As I've bored everyone with previously, I've moved a lot of stuff out of the way on the browser to see more of the background as well.

@Dlarge still don't agree with the 'background with the fanart is too visible' if you mean on the movie details page, such as the image above with the margins shown. It is too much with the movie posters (eg first image post#68) but then you just disable that background. You also mentioned 'restless' ? At least for the movie details image, I think thats because a lot of people want a lot of info on the details page at first glance without having to scroll down.

Sorry, not trying to be contrary, but just saying I like what I see, but it could probably do with some tinkering round the edges as has been mentioned.

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cayars

Yea, it's a matter of personal choice which you like better.  You could also consider if you're in the detail screen you're looking for actual details about the movie like the cast which doesn't fit on the screen until you press more buttons. If you're intention is to play the movie the backdrop is kind of meaningless as well.

I did say "could" not "should" above.  Personally things like that don't matter much to me but equal spacing, symmetry,  and things being flushed left and right do.  You shouldn't have a left margin of say 2" but the right side 1/4" for example but the same margin on both sides.  That's from a graphic artist background.

But I'm more about features and usability than looks personally so I'd take a dog ugly UI that works vs a pretty UI that doesn't work. :)

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RS43
6 hours ago, ebr said:

As for the alignment -  on the left that is actually by design as it is sub-information with a slight indent.  We could certainly change it if is such a problem though.

As for the right margin with the logo - that is impossible to control as we have no idea the shape, size or padding of any particular logo so it is centered in a particular area.

As for the vertical margin when that information line is there - that information line is non-standard and off by default.  It may be going away entirely but, I agree, if there, we should allow a little more margin with it. 

As for the overall layout of the detail screen. I also don't really follow why the layout that the web app currently uses (repeating the poster you just clicked on and obscuring the backdrop almost entirely) feels more "modern" than the layout in the TV app - which gives you big logo art instead of repeated box art and tries to emphasize the backdrop because this is displayed on your 65" TV.  That layout was designed fairly recently with the feedback of many Emby users at the time.

When you're on web/mobile, the information is key but when on a TV the artwork and presentation are emphasized more.  These are specific design goals as opposed to an "old" design (the TV layout is actually newer).

I believe the discussion ends here because it seems that the design team of Emby does not acknowledge their design is way behind competitors. The home page is ok, but it really starts going very bad when going into movie/TV shows lists & info. There is no consistency in it.. at least acknowledge this and than it is up to you to leave it as it is or change it but please do not convince us on design limitations as I have mentioned before the competitors are lightning years ahead. 

My friends are using Kodi because they really dislike the design of Emby. Just have a look to Arctic Horizon Skin on Kodi.. this person does understand the design principles and simplicity.

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arrbee99

@cayars I agree ultimately function is more important than form, but I really do like eye candy. It just makes it appealing, it attracts you too the product and makes you want to use it. But yes I also like symmetry and would prefer consistent margins and not having alphapickers that are higher on one side of the screen than the options buttons on the other side of the screen, etc.

On @RS43's points, I don't generally think the design is behind competitors, just different, which to me is good (again tidying up notwithstanding). I've used Kodi with an Emby backend, and sometimes still give it a go. Some of there designs are indeed terrific, but I generally come back to Embys Android TV as there's usually tinkering required in Kodi which I'm not good at, to try to get a specific view of previously watched movies or something that doesn't seem to be there.

Edited by arrbee99
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