4K HDR Playback / Streaming

[ramonrue 2]

Hi everyone,

 

So the last couple of hours I was trying to get some 4K HDR files (HEVC encoded) to play back on my TV, an LG something-something 4K HDR capable TV.

 

Following clients with their respective results:

 

Apple TV (some 4K capable version):

Direct Playing, no issues with .mkv container, HEVC video and TrueHD audio.

Not working properly because of the native client not being integrated (or something like that :-) ) as of now:

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/70719-thoughts-on-the-best-emby-app-and-best-streaming-device-please/page-4&do=findComment&comment=780940

What's the status on this?

 

LG TV App:

Direct streaming. Server says that it is "streaming" / transcoding because of an incompatible container format.

Technically working, but stutters while playing back. At some times these stutters just feel like the movie was filmed with 15FPS, sometimes it stops completely for ~1s, then plays another 2-ish seconds.

Annoying, cannot watch a movie with that.

 

FireTV (3rd Gen):

Direct playing.

As my 3rd and last device, finally working without any issues. 

 

So good results with the FireTV, the other two are unusable.

 

Regarding the AppleTV: An update and / or an ETA would be greatly appreciated :-)

Regarding the LG TV: Network is GBit, so it shouldn't be that. I don't know what to search for though, so if anyone has tips on how to debug it, I'd be happy to try some more things out :-)

[Luke 38502]

 

LG TV App:

Direct streaming. Server says that it is "streaming" / transcoding because of an incompatible container format.

Technically working, but stutters while playing back. At some times these stutters just feel like the movie was filmed with 15FPS, sometimes it stops completely for ~1s, then plays another 2-ish seconds.

Annoying, cannot watch a movie with that.

 

Hi, try lowering the in-app quality setting. I understand your network throughput should be enough, but the LG TV's have really cheap network adapters, and there are lots of reports that they can't handle high bitrate material.

[Happy2Play 9060]

I am not aware of any tv that has gigabit ethernet.  In today's day and age you can get better wireless then ethernet do to 100mb nics.

 

4k material was never design to be transmitted in high bitrates outside HDMI.  No streaming provider has content over I believe 25Mb.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Happy2Play

[Guest asrequested]

 

4k material was never design to be transmitted in high bitrates outside HDMI.  No streaming provider has content over I believe 25Mb.

 

They are entirely different. The network is just the compressed data, while HDMI is specifically for uncompressed data. That's why HDMI bandwidth is measured in Gb/s and ethernet is Mb/s, or sometimes Gb/s (but that usually isn't above 10Gb/s, while HDMI 2.0 is 18Gb/s and HDMI 2.1 is 48Gb/s). Compressed media is also measured in Mb/s. Most 4k stuff is below 100Mb/s, but streaming bandwidths like that, introduces other problems, such as latency. The ports on the TVs are meant for internet traffic, which is usually far below what you would stream over a network, even with 4k stuff (they compress it further).

[Happy2Play 9060]

It all comes back to expectation.  But you covered it. 

 

But anything over 25Mb is going to require specific setups and will fail on most devices.  But every device has its own capabilities.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Happy2Play

[FrostByte 5184]

I stream very high bitrate 4K (remuxes) much higher than 25 mbps to my Samsung all day long with no issues.  As long as I ensure I'm not streaming something my Samsung doesn't support then I'm okay.  For instance the Samsung TV doesn't support HD audio and if Emby tries to convert it I get what the OP describes and everything becomes choppy with lots of buffering.  However, if I select an audio track which my TV supports then it will direct play with no issues.

 

My user manual has a chart that says 50 mbps is reaching max so I would assume a newer LG set is about the same.  As H2P mentions knowing what your device supports helps otherwise transcoding 4K will kill any playback.  The key to playing 4K for me is to not require any type of transcoding

Edited November 17, 2019 by FrostByte

[Guest asrequested]

I opted for HTPCs with a 10Gb/s network

[ramonrue 2]

Thanks everyone for the interesting comments.

 

Yes, network wasn't meant to be for streaming. But I still had the expectation that I can stream a ~35Mbps video to my TV. Seems like I can't 

It works well with the FireTV (and technically also with the AppleTV), so I'm okay with that.

 

However, I have not been transcoding (except the re-packing into another container). But that would bottleneck at the server, which it doesn't. So it's still the bandwidth

I'm not going to try transcoding on my old GPU and Xeon CPU, that will definitely not work 

 

But there's still something that I didn't get a comment on: an ETA for the AppleTV's player.

I know, giving ETAs for software-related stuff is dangerous, but I'm wondering if it will be within a month, a year or longer.

[vdatanet 1572]

Thanks everyone for the interesting comments.

 

Yes, network wasn't meant to be for streaming. But I still had the expectation that I can stream a ~35Mbps video to my TV. Seems like I can't 

It works well with the FireTV (and technically also with the AppleTV), so I'm okay with that.

 

However, I have not been transcoding (except the re-packing into another container). But that would bottleneck at the server, which it doesn't. So it's still the bandwidth

I'm not going to try transcoding on my old GPU and Xeon CPU, that will definitely not work 

 

But there's still something that I didn't get a comment on: an ETA for the AppleTV's player.

I know, giving ETAs for software-related stuff is dangerous, but I'm wondering if it will be within a month, a year or longer.

 

@@Luke said:

 

We are working on it. It is getting there. And yes you'll have it before Christmas.

 

[vdatanet 1572]

 

 

LG TV App:

Direct streaming. Server says that it is "streaming" / transcoding because of an incompatible container format.

Technically working, but stutters while playing back. At some times these stutters just feel like the movie was filmed with 15FPS, sometimes it stops completely for ~1s, then plays another 2-ish seconds.

Annoying, cannot watch a movie with that.

 

 

My sister plays my 4K HDR content on hers LG, bitrate is very high (60-70 Mbps) I have 600 Mbps UP and she has 600 Mbps DOWN. LG is direct playing all that content. Your situation is strange. Your LG TV should direct play that kind of media. Can you select another track, for example AC3 instead of TrueHD audio? Can you post the remuxing log?

Edited November 17, 2019 by vdatanet

[ramonrue 2]

@@Luke said:

 

We are working on it. It is getting there. And yes you'll have it before Christmas

 

.

 

 

 

Thanks, haven't seen that. Call that a Christmas gift 

 

 

My sister plays my 4K HDR content on hers LG, bitrate is very high (60-70 Mbps) I have 600 Mbps UP and she has 600 Mbps DOWN. LG is direct playing all that content. Your situation is strange. Your LG TV should direct play that kind of media. Can you select another track, for example AC3 instead of TrueHD audio? Can you post the remuxing log?

 

Attached.

Emby Server says:

The media is compatible with the device regarding resolution and media type (H.264, AC3, etc.), but is in an incompatible file container (.mkv, .avi, .wmv, etc.). The video will be re-packaged on the fly before streaming it to the device.   Direct Streaming a file uses very little processing power without any loss in video quality.

 

Transcode position is far ahead of whatever i'm playing.

The TV is a LG UJ634V. I've also tried using WiFi, the Access Point reports 144Mbps TX rate, and a Signal of 99% (it's literally next to the TV). Same issue still. Thanks!

ffmpeg-remux.log

Edited November 17, 2019 by ramonrue

[Happy2Play 9060]

 

Thanks, haven't seen that. Call that a Christmas gift 

 

 

 

Attached.

Emby Server says:

The media is compatible with the device regarding resolution and media type (H.264, AC3, etc.), but is in an incompatible file container (.mkv, .avi, .wmv, etc.). The video will be re-packaged on the fly before streaming it to the device.   Direct Streaming a file uses very little processing power without any loss in video quality.

 

Transcode position is far ahead of whatever i'm playing.

The TV is a LG UJ634V. I've also tried using WiFi, the Access Point reports 144Mbps TX rate, and a Signal of 99% (it's literally next to the TV). Same issue still. Thanks!

 

Well you are converting audio, so if you choose the other audio track do you still have a issue?

TranscodeReasons=AudioCodecNotSupported

09:54:57.602   Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (copy)
09:54:57.602   Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (truehd (native) -> ac3 (native))

There are several topics on this issue when this exact stream happens.  

[ramonrue 2]

You're right - but why does the Server say something different?

 

Tried to switch to the Stereo track, still not smooth.

[Happy2Play 9060]

Don't really know, how was the item played?

[ramonrue 2]

I don't understand your question, what do you mean? I opened up the Emby App, chose the movie and started playing it...

[vdatanet 1572]

You're right - but why does the Server say something different?

 

Tried to switch to the Stereo track, still not smooth.

 

With Stereo Track, it direct plays?

[ramonrue 2]

With Stereo Track, it direct plays?

 

 

Aah, this was also @@Happy2Play's question

 

Yes, it is direct playing then. 

[vdatanet 1572]

Aah, this was also @@Happy2Play's question

 

Yes, it is direct playing then. 

 

Can you cast this movie using DLNA? or copy the movie to an USB drive to test if TV can handle that movie? I don't think it's a bandwidth a problem.

[ramonrue 2]

I can't:

- DLNA isn't working because the discovery mechanism doesn't work properly with my network setup (k8s)

- I don't have a large enough USB stick  

 

But it's okay - the FireTV is working and the AppleTV is working soon too. I don't need the LG TV app 

 

thanks everybody for helping!

[foggystone 1]

I opted for HTPCs with a 10Gb/s network

The same with me~

[Guest asrequested]

The same with me~

 

It's the only way to fly