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Required bandwidth for 1000 Users

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#1 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 05:34 AM

Hi

 

I know this is a difficult question to answer but do someone has experience with a large audience?

 

For example if there are 1'000 users which are watching at the same time a Live-TV programm in HD, how big must be the required bandwith?

 

If the streaming would be 6 Mbps and the bandwidht 1 Gbps, than is it just 1'000 / 6 = 167 ? Or is there some optimisation in emby?



#2 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 12:51 PM

@pir8radio do you have any tips on this? Thanks.

#3 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 04:39 PM

Hi

 

I know this is a difficult question to answer but do someone has experience with a large audience?

 

For example if there are 1'000 users which are watching at the same time a Live-TV programm in HD, how big must be the required bandwith?

 

If the streaming would be 6 Mbps and the bandwidht 1 Gbps, than is it just 1'000 / 6 = 167 ? Or is there some optimisation in emby?

 

1000 users at 6mbps would put you around 5.72Gbps bandwidth.   emby does not do any optimization.    There is no way around that on the internet without a VPN.  If all 1000 users were on a common private vpn with your server you could do multicast and the server would only see 6mpbs for all 1k users, but the vpn network would still see 5.7gbps.   

 

This is not the platform to use for an iptv service if that's what you are thinking....

 

calculate bandwidth here: https://www.techex.c...ming-calculator



#4 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 12:45 AM

1000 users at 6mbps would put you around 5.72Gbps bandwidth.   emby does not do any optimization.    There is no way around that on the internet without a VPN.  If all 1000 users were on a common private vpn with your server you could do multicast and the server would only see 6mpbs for all 1k users, but the vpn network would still see 5.7gbps.   

 

This is not the platform to use for an iptv service if that's what you are thinking....

 

calculate bandwidth here: https://www.techex.c...ming-calculator

 

thank you pir8radio!

 

Why using a private VPN? The Live-TV channels are already on multicast. 

 

Which solution are in use at telco-companies to serve such a lot uf users?



#5 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 09:41 AM

thank you pir8radio!

 

Why using a private VPN? The Live-TV channels are already on multicast. 

 

Which solution are in use at telco-companies to serve such a lot uf users?

 

Multicast doesn't work over the internet, it has to be a private network, which is why i say private vpn.      Telco-companies are technically a private network, so multicast works for them, they have control of all of their routing and equipment, its just one big private network connected to the internet backbone.   


Edited by pir8radio, 17 June 2019 - 09:41 AM.


#6 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:38 PM

Multicast doesn't work over the internet, it has to be a private network, which is why i say private vpn.      Telco-companies are technically a private network, so multicast works for them, they have control of all of their routing and equipment, its just one big private network connected to the internet backbone.   

 

But with tvheadend as tvserver I'm able to stream live-tv with a low bandwidth to a lot of clients.



#7 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:43 PM

But with tvheadend as tvserver I'm able to stream live-tv with a low bandwidth to a lot of clients.


Probably low bandwidth source channels or output. Can’t be multicast to external internet clients.


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#8 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 05:21 PM

Probably low bandwidth source channels or output. Can’t be multicast to external internet clients.


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ok, so for 1000 clients I would need an 5.7 Gbps connection more or less.

But how do the telco-companies accomplish to handle over 1000 unicast clients?

Do they replicate the server?



#9 scb99 OFFLINE  

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 05:59 PM

I don’t know for which telco you speak, but for me where I live the telco can of course multicast because it’s all their network, from their server to me (and everyone else).

#10 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:05 PM

ok, so for 1000 clients I would need an 5.7 Gbps connection more or less.
But how do the telco-companies accomplish to handle over 1000 unicast clients?
Do they replicate the server?

Like I said before it’s a private network from them to customer. Imagine your home network, it sits behind a router/firewall might connect to a switch that connects to your pc, your pc can surf the net and stream tv. Now Imagine you have a 1000 port switch and you run a cable to 1000 houses. You can do multicast because you own the router and switch and your server sits on that private network. That’s what the telco does. They shouldn’t be using Unicast the resources needed wouldn’t be worth it.


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Edited by pir8radio, 18 June 2019 - 06:08 PM.


#11 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:44 AM

Like I said before it’s a private network from them to customer. Imagine your home network, it sits behind a router/firewall might connect to a switch that connects to your pc, your pc can surf the net and stream tv. Now Imagine you have a 1000 port switch and you run a cable to 1000 houses. You can do multicast because you own the router and switch and your server sits on that private network. That’s what the telco does. They shouldn’t be using Unicast the resources needed wouldn’t be worth it.


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I mean that some telcos provide also catch-up or replay-tv. So they have to use also Unicast or not?



#12 Swynol OFFLINE  

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:23 PM

multicast packets are normally limited to to the same subnet. there are ways to pass them onto other subnets but its not worth the hassle. As pir8radio says if its multicast you need then this isnt the solution.

 

another possible solution is hosting on a cloud service that offers load balancing. something like azure or aws. this would have the benefit of geolocation for your users.



#13 notla49285 OFFLINE  

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:15 PM

another possible solution is hosting on a cloud service that offers load balancing. something like azure or aws. this would have the benefit of geolocation for your users.

 

Azure/AWS would be an absolute dream to run on, but would this not cause an issue with, let's say, some of the type of content that is held on Emby servers?



#14 Spaceboy OFFLINE  

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 07:15 PM

Azure/AWS would be an absolute dream to run on, but would this not cause an issue with, let's say, some of the type of content that is held on Emby servers?

not if it’s encrypted.

#15 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:37 AM

multicast packets are normally limited to to the same subnet. there are ways to pass them onto other subnets but its not worth the hassle. As pir8radio says if its multicast you need then this isnt the solution.

 

another possible solution is hosting on a cloud service that offers load balancing. something like azure or aws. this would have the benefit of geolocation for your users.

 

ok, thank you. But If I would have a bandwidth of 10Gbps the I could server easily more than 1000 clients?



#16 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:26 AM

ok, thank you. But If I would have a bandwidth of 10Gbps the I could server easily more than 1000 clients?

 

Bandwidth only, yea.    But there are hardware and other limitations you have to think about too.  Its a rabbit hole....     For example if you have 1000 iptv channels and 1000 customers, if all 1000 customers are watching the same IPTV channel you will have one 6mbps stream into emby, and 1000 out to users, thats 1001 6mbps streams...   lets say those 1000 customers were all watching DIFFERENT channels, now you have 1000 6mbps iptv streams into your server and 1000 streams out thats 2000 6mbps streams you couldnt support that on 10gbps.     not to mention the hardware requirements, those 1000 streams would still be writing and reading to/from disk, you need an array that could handle 10gbps throughput, (this is another reason why emby shouldn't be used for a "service".)  the 10gbps interface will need to be a good card with offloading, Multiple physical CPU's to spread that 10gbps across.   There is no easy answer as you said in your first post.   

 

But good luck...      :)



#17 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:28 AM

Bandwidth only, yea.    But there are hardware and other limitations you have to think about too.  Its a rabbit hole....     For example if you have 1000 iptv channels and 1000 customers, if all 1000 customers are watching the same IPTV channel you will have one 6mbps stream into emby, and 1000 out to users, thats 1001 6mbps streams...   lets say those 1000 customers were all watching DIFFERENT channels, now you have 1000 6mbps iptv streams into your server and 1000 streams out thats 2000 6mbps streams you couldnt support that on 10gbps.     not to mention the hardware requirements, those 1000 streams would still be writing and reading to/from disk, you need an array that could handle 10gbps throughput, (this is another reason why emby shouldn't be used for a "service".)  the 10gbps interface will need to be a good card with offloading, Multiple physical CPU's to spread that 10gbps across.   There is no easy answer as you said in your first post.   

 

But good luck...      :)

 

so Middleware like Flussonic or Stalker is better situated for this task?

What about tvheadend?



#18 pir8radio OFFLINE  

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:43 PM

so Middleware like Flussonic or Stalker is better situated for this task?
What about tvheadend?


Yes flusonic is pretty good. One of the recent providers that went offline were using flusonic. Stalker is even better. You could prob use emby for vod but emby doesn’t support that use case and would probably drop/ban you. You would have to ask them. Emby doesn’t support piracy, but if your vod videos were not copyrighted or you were licensed, they would be cool with that. I’m just an end user of emby and I do not represent emby.


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#19 deganza OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:37 AM

Yes flusonic is pretty good. One of the recent providers that went offline were using flusonic. Stalker is even better. You could prob use emby for vod but emby doesn’t support that use case and would probably drop/ban you. You would have to ask them. Emby doesn’t support piracy, but if your vod videos were not copyrighted or you were licensed, they would be cool with that. I’m just an end user of emby and I do not represent emby.


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For the extended Emby Premiere Licence there is an option for 1000 devices:

 

https://emby.media/premiere-ext.html

 

So emby should handle this quantity of clients.



#20 darkassassin07 OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:18 AM

There's a very big difference between allowing a total of 1000 clients to be able to access the server on a single license, and actually supporting 1000 simultaneous streams.





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