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Growing pains in 4K. Apple TV 4K HDR not playing back in only Emby?


gleep52
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I have a handful of UHD discs I've bought and ripped.  Today I finally upgraded our home theatre projector to a Optoma UHD60 and to my surprise, Emby (On Apple TV 4K) doesn't appear to pass along the HDR part of a movie.  The gradients are harsh and jagged, and the colors are bland and dead as if HDR were turned off (We have a non-HDR 4K TV that has dead color when trying to playback HDR content, but the non-hdr TV doesn't have harsh gradients like Emby's playback on Apple TV 4K).  It doesn't seem to matter if I use transcoding or not - same thing happens each time.  

 

Same titles with HDR looks great when played back with Plex on the same Apple TV 4K.  Just wish I could get Emby to playback HDR on Apple TV 4K.  

embyserver.txt

Edited by gleep52
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I would try out the Apple TV beta if you’re willing. I assume you would have a lot of good feedback given your use case.

 I would love to!  I have testflight installed already - I just need the redemption code I suppose.  Is it public, or private invites only?

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So the subtitles method on Apple TV 4K starts an ffmpeg process which eats up about 15% CPU - so I'm guessing it transcodes the 4K file, which strips off the HDR maybe?  However, playing the title without subtitles still strips off the HDR and still fires up an ffmpeg task but this time eats up 30-40% CPU.  So I'm guessing with or without subtitles, the Apple TV 4K is not using direct play at all, and thus is losing it's HDR via transcoding. 

 

I've gone through the settings in the App's playback prefs and told it to never play subtitles even, and it still starts an ffmpeg process each time.  I've also tried changing 7.1 to 5.1 audio as well - still uses ffmpeg with Apple TV 4K.

 

Here's where it gets funny - on my Android Shield TV, it plays back with HDR AND subtitles (internal OR external) without transcoding!   No ffmpeg is running... how is that possible?  I thought Apple was supposed to be magical, but it appears nVidia has used unicorn blood this time...  

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The native apple video player doesn't support that format of subtitles which means they need to be burned in with transcoding. We are working on a new video player for the app. Thanks.

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I tried again with subtitles and without subtitles.  Still bland without color.  New files attached.  (I also updated to the new .45 software)

 

When Emby transcodes HDR titles it doesn't also change the color space, that's why the colors are wrong.

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When Emby transcodes HDR titles it doesn't also change the color space, that's why the colors are wrong.

 

The more pressing question is why would you be satisfied with HDR HEVC -> SDR H264 which is what Emby would output if it performed the transcode properly.

If Emby has to transcode output for ATV 4K to a format the ATV 4K can pay then why not HDR HEVC -> HDR HEVC and change the container and possibly the codec id (that might be the sticking point as the ATV wants a different codec id or brand than what's normally used for mkvs)?

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This is why the Apple TV is such an inferior product for media.  I don't know why the devs continue to support a device and an eco-system that is so anti-consumer.  If anything what they should be doing is going the route Plex did and allowing an external player to be used like on Android so people can use Kodi to properly display subtitles and HDR.  Apple TV is horrible for it's codec support.  No matter how fantastic of a coder you people are, I am afraid this is one battle you will not win.  Either abandon the device, or emulate what others have done to make life easier.

 

I'm sorry it's just I have users who have Apple TV's and I am sick and tired of trying to explain things to them about why stuff isn't working.  I'm at the point where I am going to buy them Android boxes/Fire TV's and PAY for the emby app just so they stop bothering me every other day when stuff won't play.

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I'm out of the loop - what did Plex do for Apple TV folks?  How do you get HDR and subtitles on an Apple TV through plex?  I haven't heard of this.  I really did just return a Apple TV 4K for a nVidia Shield because both Emby and Plex work much better with it.  (I have an Apple TV 4, and another Shield too).  I'm pretty pro-apple products, not company.  I think they are very pro-consumer as long as it fits in their thin narrative of control.  I mean they are giving away free 4K upgrades with any movie you've ever purchased through iTunes for use on the Apple TV 4K.  That's a pretty awesome thing to do - makes me wish I had the dough to buy all my disc movies digitally again, but screw that crap.  :)

 

I love how everything Apple to Apple plays together SO WELL.  There truely is nothing like it in the market like Apple products produce in their eco-system.  But you introduce something Apple doesn't like, or something that asks Apple to give up a tiny bit of control, and it's like Hilter and Jews.  So yeah, we as consumers suffer when that happens... and that's where the Shield shines.  I just miss the photos screen saver and airplay power of a real Apple TV over anything else on the market.  /rant

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This is why the Apple TV is such an inferior product for media.  I don't know why the devs continue to support a device and an eco-system that is so anti-consumer.  If anything what they should be doing is going the route Plex did and allowing an external player to be used like on Android so people can use Kodi to properly display subtitles and HDR.  Apple TV is horrible for it's codec support.  No matter how fantastic of a coder you people are, I am afraid this is one battle you will not win.  Either abandon the device, or emulate what others have done to make life easier.

 

I'm sorry it's just I have users who have Apple TV's and I am sick and tired of trying to explain things to them about why stuff isn't working.  I'm at the point where I am going to buy them Android boxes/Fire TV's and PAY for the emby app just so they stop bothering me every other day when stuff won't play.

 

Dropping support completely is rather harsh!

 

Not everyone has HDR/4K content and happy with standard mp4. I use MKV for example, which Apple player does not support and has to be transcoded.

 

May be some on screen message stating whenever a limitation is imposed is better to inform customers. In other words we will play it, but there could be incorrect HDR or subtitles or have to transcode to stereo only.

The message could be controlled by server or client side option to "Always show warning" or not. Default would be Always show warning for example so new users get the message for info so they get to learn...

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I'm out of the loop - what did Plex do for Apple TV folks?  How do you get HDR and subtitles on an Apple TV through plex?  I haven't heard of this.  I really did just return a Apple TV 4K for a nVidia Shield because both Emby and Plex work much better with it.  (I have an Apple TV 4, and another Shield too).  I'm pretty pro-apple products, not company.  I think they are very pro-consumer as long as it fits in their thin narrative of control.  I mean they are giving away free 4K upgrades with any movie you've ever purchased through iTunes for use on the Apple TV 4K.  That's a pretty awesome thing to do - makes me wish I had the dough to buy all my disc movies digitally again, but screw that crap.  :)

 

I love how everything Apple to Apple plays together SO WELL.  There truely is nothing like it in the market like Apple products produce in their eco-system.  But you introduce something Apple doesn't like, or something that asks Apple to give up a tiny bit of control, and it's like Hilter and Jews.  So yeah, we as consumers suffer when that happens... and that's where the Shield shines.  I just miss the photos screen saver and airplay power of a real Apple TV over anything else on the market.  /rant

My apologies it appears most people will use either Infuse, or MrMC as players as they have the ability to have the client run inside the program.  The programs will handle all the proper codec and playback without all the limitations that the AppleTV OS crap does.  MrMC has the capabilities to be an Emby client as well.

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a

 

My apologies it appears most people will use either Infuse, or MrMC as players as they have the ability to have the client run inside the program.  The programs will handle all the proper codec and playback without all the limitations that the AppleTV OS crap does.  MrMC has the capabilities to be an Emby client as well.

 

Are these replacements instead of using emby (client) on Apple TV? From what I can gather, its a front end app using Emby server?

 

I looked at they wanted another sum of money for lifetime license (in addition to Emby's cost).

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In addition to being a stand-alone media center, MrMC can also be an Emby client. This feature is built-in and requires no additional files or modules of any kind.

https://wiki.mrmc.tv/index.php/Emby

 

 

MrMC is just like Kodi, except they don't allow pirated plugins.  It costs $9.99.  Apparently you could also try installing Kodi/SPMC (cydia impactor) and using the Emby plugin as well, IF you don't want to pay for the costs of MrMC.  Same engine.

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In addition to being a stand-alone media center, MrMC can also be an Emby client. This feature is built-in and requires no additional files or modules of any kind.

https://wiki.mrmc.tv/index.php/Emby

 

 

MrMC is just like Kodi, except they don't allow pirated plugins.  It costs $9.99.  Apparently you could also try installing Kodi/SPMC (cydia impactor) and using the Emby plugin as well, IF you don't want to pay for the costs of MrMC.  Same engine.

 

 

thanks for explaining to a newbie (ex MB user now trying Emby) :)

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thanks for explaining to a newbie (ex MB user now trying Emby) :)

No problem.  Quite a few of us are struggling with users who refuse to leave their Apple TV's and it's frustrating.  We have to look at all options for them while keeping them in their nice little eco-system.  At times I've been tempted to just delete their accounts till they buy a box with proper support, aka Android or even a Roku.  Plex users are in the same boat as we are and Apple is not bending.

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No problem.  Quite a few of us are struggling with users who refuse to leave their Apple TV's and it's frustrating.  We have to look at all options for them while keeping them in their nice little eco-system.  At times I've been tempted to just delete their accounts till they buy a box with proper support, aka Android or even a Roku.  Plex users are in the same boat as we are and Apple is not bending.

 

 

wow, harsh much? Might be a little careful, sounding a little like Plex developers when a bunch of us and not just apple users left because of attitudes like that towards their users.

 

No there no reason to leave the Apple TV and the beta version with the external player for the most part is working great. 

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wow, harsh much? Might be a little careful, sounding a little like Plex developers when a bunch of us and not just apple users left because of attitudes like that towards their users.

 

No there no reason to leave the Apple TV and the beta version with the external player for the most part is working great. 

Only a select few people have access to the beta version.  You also have to remember that Apple is for idiots who need their hands held from being told what to watch and where to watch.  The Apple eco-system has always been horrible for end users.  They do not let you do what you want with what you own, period.  There is also the recent story where Apple deleted movies from a users purchased iTunes library simply because they had moved to a different country.  They no longer had the rights to that movie, and because of that the user no longer had the right to stream said movie anymore and instead of getting a full refund, they got $5.99 in a rental coupon.  All because you don't own what you think you do with Apple.

 

I'm not being harsh, I'm telling the truth.  From day 1 there have been nothing but issues with media playback on Apple devices, and Apple has done everything they can to ensure it doesn't go smoothly.

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