Jump to content

Save artwork and metadata within media folders - pros, cons and questions


Starlionblue
 Share

Recommended Posts

Starlionblue

Under "Metadata" and "Basics, there is an option to "Save artwork and metadata within media folders". By default this is unchecked. I'm trying to figure out the pros and cons of either option.

 

Pros for storing in data folders.

  • Data can easily be found, and in an intuitive structure if you want to edit it.
  • Any others?

Cons for storing in data folders.

  • Metadata is not stored in a central location.
  • Any others?

 

Questions:

  • Does MB3 continue to update the data if it is in the media folders, or is it "write once and forget about it"?
  • If I back up the %appdata% folder and the have to reinstall MB Server, is there an easy way to restore the old data, or is it simpler to let MBS rebuild the data?
  • If I have "Save artwork and metadata within media folders" unchecked now, but later choose to check it, is the metadata migrated to the folders or does it have to be rebuilt? If migrated, is it deleted from the %appdata% location?
Edited by Starlionblue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koleckai Silvestri

Pro - platter storage is a lot cheaper than SSD storage.

Pro - easier to replicate and use parity control on your content.

Pro - easier maintenance of media.

Pro - cross-compatibility with other systems.

Pro - Proper data handling

 

Con - can't think of any.

 

Never saw the attraction of storing metadata centrally. You have a database that tells everything where the metadata is located so it is better to store it with your media on slower reliable drives.

 

Answers -

* you can tell it to update information within the metadata settings.

* you can restore it with backing up the %appdata% folder regardless of where you store the images.

* you would have to refresh in my experience.

Edited by Wayne Luke
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

Great answer Wayne Luke.

 

I guess I'll check the "store with media" box and then rebuild. Just not today. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

I'm rebuilding with the "store with media" box checked. The xml files are being stored with the media, but the images are not. Am I missing something?

 

Also, how do I now delete metadata from the central store? Is this done automatically?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koleckai Silvestri

It is stored at %appdata%/MediaBrowser-Server/data/metadata.

 

I believe you'll have to delete it yourself. 

 

For the images, make sure that the image fetchers are turned on under Metadata in the Configuration Dashboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

It is stored at %appdata%/MediaBrowser-Server/data/metadata.

 

I believe you'll have to delete it yourself. 

 

For the images, make sure that the image fetchers are turned on under Metadata in the Configuration Dashboard.

 

Thx.

 

Question: Will there be a performance hit with metadata in the media folders as opposed to centralized?

Edited by Starlionblue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

you should check out the partial research I did. http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/5873-idle-server-settings-and-back-up/ <-- Keep in my it was a quick write up

My research was based on best way to restore during a disaster. To me saving to the media folder is too bulky and would only be considered if you can organize it somehow within your media folder. Or even save the metadata to another folder altogether. On the flip side, saving to the default folder is located on your main drive where MB3 is installed, within the folder structure. Yes Luke is right, hard to back up.

 

To me, I prefer it saved to my NAS drive where my media is saved, however not in the folder that contains the media files. Meaning I wish we could specify the location of metadata.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koleckai Silvestri

To me, I prefer it saved to my NAS drive where my media is saved, however not in the folder that contains the media files. Meaning I wish we could specify the location of metadata.

 

You actually can in the latest development builds of the server.  Go under Advanced -> Paths in the Dashboard after the next proper release and it should be there.

 

I still prefer keeping all the data for each object together (media, graphics, metadata). If I remove media, I don't need to go looking for its metadata based on a 32-bit alphanumeric ID. Those IDs are great for computers but horrible for people. Storing the object components together is also compatible with other systems so if I need a tool to augment my server, it will probably work.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You actually can in the latest development builds of the server.  Go under Advanced -> Paths in the Dashboard after the next proper release and it should be there.

 

I still prefer keeping all the data for each object together (media, graphics, metadata). If I remove media, I don't need to go looking for its metadata based on a 32-bit alphanumeric ID. Those IDs are great for computers but horrible for people. Storing the object components together is also compatible with other systems so if I need a tool to augment my server, it will probably work.

 

Really you can save it to specific folder? hmm i will check that out.

 

You make a solid point. I was unaware that if you delete media the respective metadata would still remain. I thought it'd go away as well. Darn seems as if i'm stuck between a rock and a hard play

 

what do you mean by augment

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koleckai Silvestri

Different tools that seek out missing imagery, missing television episodes, etc... Some like Media Center Master are available. Others were created by myself and my son and not distributed. My son uses XBMC almost exclusively since there are no Linux clients and Live TV is more mature. I use MediaBrowser. We make our tools work with both.

 

Of course, centralized data has a few benefits. Like this: http://wayneflix.com/library.php?page=1 -

 

Though the data used is a few days old there. Trying to make it look nicer as well: http://wayneflix.com/

Edited by Wayne Luke
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Different tools that seek out missing imagery, missing television episodes, etc... Some like Media Center Master are available. Others were created by myself and my son and not distributed. My son uses XBMC almost exclusively since there are no Linux clients and Live TV is more mature. I use MediaBrowser. We make our tools work with both.

 

Of course, centralized data has a few benefits. Like this: http://wayneflix.com/library.php?page=1 -

 

Though the data used is a few days old there. Trying to make it look nicer as well: http://wayneflix.com/

 

I'll look into those types of things to find missing information. any other suggestions?

 

Thats real cool wayne. easy putting that site together?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

you should check out the partial research I did. http://mediabrowser.tv/community/index.php?/topic/5873-idle-server-settings-and-back-up/ <-- Keep in my it was a quick write up

My research was based on best way to restore during a disaster. To me saving to the media folder is too bulky and would only be considered if you can organize it somehow within your media folder. Or even save the metadata to another folder altogether. On the flip side, saving to the default folder is located on your main drive where MB3 is installed, within the folder structure. Yes Luke is right, hard to back up.

 

To me, I prefer it saved to my NAS drive where my media is saved, however not in the folder that contains the media files. Meaning I wish we could specify the location of metadata.

 

Having media centralized means you are stuck with the MBS metadata tools for better or for worse. I think they're great but as mentioned above not very intuitive unless you're using the web interface.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I request that the metadata be stored in a hidden metadata folder as a subdirectory of the folder? I really prefer all my movie rips in a single folder and not cluttered with other files and available if I need to rebuild my server?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thx.

 

Question: Will there be a performance hit with metadata in the media folders as opposed to centralized?

 

Actually, there is a potential performance hit if you don't save these with the media.

 

If your server cache is wiped or you re-install it fresh or install on a different machine, we'll have to go out to the internet to get all of this again.  That will be a HUGE difference over just reading it right back out of the media folders (and puts a big and unnecessary strain on those metadata providers).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I request that the metadata be stored in a hidden metadata folder as a subdirectory of the folder? I really prefer all my movie rips in a single folder and not cluttered with other files and available if I need to rebuild my server?

 

We want to maintain compatibility with several other systems so defining our own special place like this makes that tough.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

Actually, there is a potential performance hit if you don't save these with the media.

 

If your server cache is wiped or you re-install it fresh or install on a different machine, we'll have to go out to the internet to get all of this again.  That will be a HUGE difference over just reading it right back out of the media folders (and puts a big and unnecessary strain on those metadata providers).

 

Hi ebr. I understand that there will be a performance hit on rebuild. Having just done it when I migrated from central to "with media" I can attest to the fact that it took "a while".

 

My question was regarding the situation where all the metadata is downloaded. Which is faster. With media or centrally on the same SSD as the server?

 

I'm guessing no noticeable difference, or at least more dependent on general network bandwidth, but would like to hear your thoughts.

Edited by Starlionblue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand that there will be a performance hit on rebuild

 

Is not the only consideration here, saving the metadata locally will also help our providers not getting slammed. There are 3 reasons to save the metadata locally as far as I see it

 

- faster library rebuild

- save your bandwidth

- most importantly save our providers bandwidth.

 

Just my 2cents

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

Is not the only consideration here, saving the metadata locally will also help our providers not getting slammed. There are 3 reasons to save the metadata locally as far as I see it

 

- faster library rebuild

- save your bandwidth

- most importantly save our providers bandwidth.

 

Just my 2cents

 

Sounds good. In that case though, why isn't "Save artwork and metadata within media folders" checked by default?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds good. In that case though, why isn't "Save artwork and metadata within media folders" checked by default?

We have to allow for folks who use custom metadata or use a 3rd party scraper (metabrowser, mcm) or their existing metadata would be overwritten.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

We have to allow for folks who use custom metadata or use a 3rd party scraper (metabrowser, mcm) or their existing metadata would be overwritten.

 

That makes sense. I'd propose then, a little "Learn more" link next to the checkmark that explains these things. Or a choice on install.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, thanks for the reply. I guess the option ivwas thinking was that 'local metadata cache' and a subdirectory of the each media folder are both custom folders so wouldn't make a difference if compatibility wasn't what the user was after. Just my 2 cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a choice on install. It's part of the startup wizard, which unfortunately nobody ever reads. That's not intending to mock you at all because it's everyone. They click through the wizard and then complain that they weren't asked if they wanted it or not.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starlionblue

There is a choice on install. It's part of the startup wizard, which unfortunately nobody ever reads. That's not intending to mock you at all because it's everyone. They click through the wizard and then complain that they weren't asked if they wanted it or not.

 

Hanging my head in shame. I can't believe I missed that! 

 

533a05d3f39cc_Fail.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I would like "Save Locally" to be our default mostly to save the strain on our providers (who provide all this data and the infrastructure to deliver it for free).

 

However, I think we have it not checked by default to cover the potential case of someone having all their media shares set as read-only and to not be quite as invasive on the file system.  That is, someone needs to actually "opt-in" to having us add a bunch of stuff to their media folders.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...