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Tone-mapping in transcoding HDR for playback on SDR screens??


griffindodd
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MagicDoubleM
On 2/4/2021 at 12:00 AM, Luke said:

The donuts are being iced as we speak:

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Can't wait.

Do you think transcoding to HDR10 is also doable within that implementation? I have scenarios where the source-material has too much bandwidth, but the connection would allow to stream a nice 4k/HDR/HEVC/EAC3-transcode. In other cases i'd rather keep HDR and go down to 1080p-resolution instead of doing a tone-mapped 4k-stream...

Would love to play around a bit with such combinations through the diagnostic plugin, to see what really makes sense and looks great.

Nevertheless, this was thinking a bit ahead, can't wait for the tonemapping-beta, that's biggie for me! Thanks!

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Sammy
On 2/3/2021 at 3:00 PM, Luke said:

The donuts are being iced as we speak:

Untitled.png

MMM.. Donuts..

main.thumb.jpg.8fab4f42a020a760da8137f1067c3275.jpg

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29 minutes ago, MagicDoubleM said:

Can't wait.

Do you think transcoding to HDR10 is also doable within that implementation? I have scenarios where the source-material has too much bandwidth, but the connection would allow to stream a nice 4k/HDR/HEVC/EAC3-transcode. In other cases i'd rather keep HDR and go down to 1080p-resolution instead of doing a tone-mapped 4k-stream...

Not in this specifically as this is TONE MAPPING which is specifically taking something with HDR color spacing and converting it to SDR color space at X resolution and Y bitrate.

What you want to do if I understand correctly is transcode HDR material keeping the HDR and NOT tone map correct?
Would this be to take something like 40Mb file and reduce it to 8 or 10Mb for remote streaming?

 

 

Edited by cayars
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MagicDoubleM
27 minutes ago, cayars said:

What you want to do if I understand correctly is transcode HDR material keeping the HDR and NOT tone map correct?
Would this be to take something like 40Mb file and reduce it to 8 or 10Mb for remote streaming?

Yes, exactly that's what i mean. While i will have great use for HDR>SDR-conversation, there are also those cases where this kind of setup would be possible and probably allow a better experience.

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There would be a couple of technical hurdles to overcome to do this but it's technically possible.

Could you open a feature request for this (if not one already)?

 

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Happy2Play
2 hours ago, cayars said:

There would be a couple of technical hurdles to overcome to do this but it's technically possible.

Could you open a feature request for this (if not one already)?

 

Wouldn't that be covered in the transcode in h265 request?

Edited by Happy2Play
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1 minute ago, Happy2Play said:

Wouldn't that be covered in the transcode in h265 request?

I'd have to read it but that's the main "hurdle" I was referring to.  Once we can do that then this would be fairly trivial (if not included already in that thread).

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MagicDoubleM
23 hours ago, cayars said:

There would be a couple of technical hurdles to overcome to do this but it's technically possible.

Could you open a feature request for this (if not one already)?

 

Thank you very much for hearing me out. Feature request is opened.

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1 hour ago, MagicDoubleM said:

Thank you very much for hearing me out. Feature request is opened.

Feature request helps and this is something that can be done after we first get done what Happy2Play linked to which is sort of a prerequisite.

Since we're already wanting to support tone mapped HDR->SDR this should be a natural fit as well.

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vdatanet
On 2/4/2021 at 12:00 AM, Luke said:

The donuts are being iced as we speak:

Untitled.png

I suppose you have taken into account adding the tone mapping permission to the user, for me it is essential to choose which user can use the tone mapping feature and which users cannot.

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13 minutes ago, vdatanet said:

I suppose you have taken into account adding the tone mapping permission to the user, for me it is essential to choose which user can use the tone mapping feature and which users cannot.

No because that would defeat the purpose would it not?

Either you want to give the user access to 4K material or not.  If they can direct play it great, if not then tone map it while transcoding.  You would not want to give them a transcoded video NOT tone mapped as it will look flat and without the proper SDR colors.

So you can handle this acces the same way you do now with a 4K library you can allow or not per user.

Edited by cayars
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Soon it will be in the normal beta channel release. We have been doing some private testing of it first with a hand full of users each with different hardware.  The UI needs an adjustment or two but the actual conversion with tone mapping itself is working quite well with the right hardware.

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pwhodges

There's also work going on to enable the clients to request tonemapping or not according to the capabilities of the hardware they have available.  That's a bit fiddly, I think.

Paul

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MagicDoubleM
On 2/12/2021 at 4:09 PM, cayars said:

Soon it will be in the normal beta channel release. We have been doing some private testing of it first with a hand full of users each with different hardware.  The UI needs an adjustment or two but the actual conversion with tone mapping itself is working quite well with the right hardware.

Who do i need to get drunk with to get into this pre-beta/alpha-channel? ;)

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You can start with me, but be warned, I like good single malt Scotch but hate to pay for it. LOL

Kidding aside, if you understand the differences between different 4K formats such as HDR10, HDR10+,HDR1000m (HLG, Panasonic & Sony enhancements to HDR), Dolby Vision and have some of these types of media to test with as well as have a 4K display/TV to view difference between raw and tone mapped video send me a PM.  You don't need to have or know all this but it's helpful.

Let me know your OS, CPU and GPU(s) types, device driver versions for GPUs.  Definitely not promising anything but if you fill a gap in some way...
If you're a Windows user we probably have this covered well, but could use Linux users soon.

We're getting really close so it won't be long anyway before this hits beta.

PS not to be a tease or anything (yea right) but I was just testing some stuff while typing and have five 4K HDR streams being transcoded and tone mapped to 1080-8Mb as well as 2 AVC to HEVC conversions in progress. All 5 streams are different full length 4K HDR movies.  I'm adding a new clients every 5 minutes just to see how many clients I can stream to but have ran out of hardware clients and now will be using Theater and web browsers.  GPU is at 60% and more streams can be transcoded and/or tone mapped.

This is a 10 year old first gen i7 (no Quicksync) @ 2.8 Ghz with an Nvidia 1650 (patched to allow more than 3 streams).  @softworkz has done a SUPER (not strong enough) job with this implementation and will have the orange and purple guys wondering what just happened, and how the hell did they do that. LOL

But to be like all the commercials you see on TV, I'll add your mileage  may differ from mine.

Edited by cayars
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MagicDoubleM
13 hours ago, cayars said:

PS not to be a tease or anything (yea right) but I was just testing some stuff while typing and have five 4K HDR streams being transcoded and tone mapped to 1080-8Mb as well as 2 AVC to HEVC conversions in progress. All 5 streams are different full length 4K HDR movies.  I'm adding a new clients every 5 minutes just to see how many clients I can stream to but have ran out of hardware clients and now will be using Theater and web browsers.  GPU is at 60% and more streams can be transcoded and/or tone mapped.

This is a 10 year old first gen i7 (no Quicksync) @ 2.8 Ghz with an Nvidia 1650 (patched to allow more than 3 streams).  @softworkz has done a SUPER (not strong enough) job with this implementation and will have the orange and purple guys wondering what just happened, and how the hell did they do that. LOL

But to be like all the commercials you see on TV, I'll add your mileage  may differ from mine.

Thank you very much. That teaser sounds more than amazing. Exactly what i need. 🙂

And a DM is on it's way... 

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36 minutes ago, MagicDoubleM said:

Thank you very much. That teaser sounds more than amazing. Exactly what i need. 🙂

And a DM is on it's way... 

No PM yet.

What's more amazing is orange and purple servers running on my hardware can either not transcode one stream in real time or 1.2x on the other which just barely works. That's of course on my older first gen i7.  They don't do better on newer i5 models either (my notebook).  A lot of you guys will take for granted how well this does work in Emby (when you get it) without any special drivers (normal current drivers from Intel or Nvidia, not from MS) or configs and won't appreciate how special this really is.

The performance difference on my hardware really is stunning but of course your mileage may differ.

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MagicDoubleM
4 hours ago, cayars said:

No PM yet.

What's more amazing is orange and purple servers running on my hardware can either not transcode one stream in real time or 1.2x on the other which just barely works. That's of course on my older first gen i7.  They don't do better on newer i5 models either (my notebook).  A lot of you guys will take for granted how well this does work in Emby (when you get it) without any special drivers (normal current drivers from Intel or Nvidia, not from MS) or configs and won't appreciate how special this really is.

The performance difference on my hardware really is stunning but of course your mileage may differ.

Yeah, those numbers sound unusual even with the whole improvements through cuda/nvenc in the past years. I might even finally see a reason to patch drivers here instead of getting another gpu into the sys. Great work!

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raudraido
On 1/27/2021 at 11:13 PM, RanmaCanada said:

And that is why I suggested that the team limit it to Intel 11th Gen only, at least until something more reliable comes forward.  There are open-cl plugins that sometimes work, and someone is attempting to develop a Cuda based filter, but nothing is working 100%.  Intel will have it hard coded into their ASICS for quicksync.  https://edc.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/performance/benchmarks/11th-generation-intel-core-tgl-u-and-evo-launch-2020/

I know I would be very pissed of with that solution. Suddenly my 1080ti+ryzen 3900x won't be enough for emby media server to enjoy all the latest bells and whistles. At the same
time, that combo works perfectly with Plex.

Edited by raudraido
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4 minutes ago, raudraido said:

I know I would be very pissed of with that solution. Suddenly my 1080ti+ryzen 3900x won't be enough for emby media server to enjoy all the latest bells and whistles. It the same
time, that combo works perfectly with Plex.

Nothing will change for you. It's an option and it's off by default.

Further, @RanmaCanada might want to correct his earlier statement as he's part of the private testing group...

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1 hour ago, softworkz said:

Further, @RanmaCanada might want to correct his earlier statement as he's part of the private testing group...

Well in fairness, what he said at that point in time was what he knew based on the other guys implementation. He just hadn't seen what we have. :)
And now he knows better. LOL

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RanmaCanada
16 hours ago, softworkz said:

Nothing will change for you. It's an option and it's off by default.

Further, @RanmaCanada might want to correct his earlier statement as he's part of the private testing group...

Yes, now I know 100% better.  The amount of work that @softworkz has put into the implementation is amazing.  

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pearf

Finally!

It is f***ing glorious. Still testing, but first transcodes with tonemapping are flawless. I am on Linux with a TR 1920x with a GTX 1050 2GB. 

Thank you so much!

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