FlexRaid: Transparent RAID (tRAID) vs RAID over File System (RAID-F)

[xnappo 1593]

Just chiming in that I have decided tobgive FlexRaid the boot. I am just backing up my collection now. Storage is pretty cheap...

 

xnappo

[Shaun 93]

unfortunately backing up 10x3TB disk is not a viable option I see only 3 choices that will work for me

 

1. decent HBA and raid 6

2. Flex RaidF or RAIDT

3. storages spaces

 

If you have more that 2 or 3 disks, you are going to have a failure and you are going to loose 2TB-4TB of data, it only a question of when . I need a solution that protects against disk failure, even if it numerous operational drawbacks

(i.e slow write speed, etc)

[jwill 28]

If you have more that 2 or 3 disks, you are going to have a failure and you are going to loose 2TB-4TB of data, it only a question of when . 

Not if you have a backup. Which he said he has. It is not difficult to back up media drives full of static data...if you are willing to spend the money for 2x the number of drives (plus supporting hardware) needed to hold the data. Which I am not, but it is certainly an option for some people.

[Shaun 93]

I guess the point I was making was that is becomes quite difficult to double your disks when you get past 5 or 6 disks. You need special cases, power supplies, HBAs, etc.

I can get 10 3TB disks in a lian li case with a 400W Power supply, a MB with 8 Sata, a cheap 4 Sata card - once I start talking about 20 disks its a much more complex.

 

I'm not arguing against backup - its a great solution for a small media library (< 10TB), its just not practical when you get much larger.

[jwill 28]

I guess the point I was making was that is becomes quite difficult to double your disks when you get past 5 or 6 disks. You need special cases, power supplies, HBAs, etc.

Not for static data such as media files. You just backup each full drive to another drive, and then put the backup in a safe place. 

 

It is obviously quite practical, and not complex at all. I am not sure why you keep claiming otherwise. Anyone willing to spend the money to buy extra drives can easily do it. 

Edited January 2, 2014 by jwill

[xnappo 1593]

Right. Once you have 4tb of stuff you back it up and put the drive on a shelf. I only have one extra drive actually powered up to backup the drive that is still filling up. I am cycling 2tb drives out of my machine to use as the backups and replacing them with 4tb drives for new data.

 

xnappo

[Airbender 113]

Hi

 

So i guess this question might help me and mybe others to figure out if F Raid is better choice then tRaid 

I have one of the 2TB drive in fRaid now, most data of that drive are personal stuff and computer backups and so on but a section of it is set for SABNZBD and all files goes to it , then i move files around from that 2 TB drive to tv show and movies and so on so now you guys got the idea

is that ok with Raid F or i am completely wrong ?  this is the part made me think that real time raid will be more for people like me

 

Please advise

 

Thanks

[Shaun 93]

moving files within a disk has no adverse impacts with RAIDF or RAIDT

Editing and Deleting will invalidate your parity in RAIDF  (can adversely affect a restore until the parity is updated)

Added files will of couse not be included in your parity and therefore not in a restore unit the parity is updated

your should ask these questions on the flexraid forums where the real experts lurk

[sfnetwork 514]

@@Airbender

What bout those "access denied" on xml files during scans?

This issue is really starting to piss me off (also affecting MetaBrowser on modifications now...)

 

I mean RAID-F vs tRAID pooling.

[Shaun 93]

pooling is a PIA in RAIDF, i dont use it - all sort of problems with shares and permissions

Its much better in RAIDT, I still don't use it

[sfnetwork 514]

I'm almost at the point to drop FlexRAID and focus only on a better pooling solution (and take the chance that one of my drives will die and I'll lose the data). Yeah, that annoying for me...

I guess I might give it a REAL try this weekend (tRAID).

Just wish someone else would have tested the pooling first (I have A LOT of data)

Maybe, if possible, I'll just do the pooling first (no parity).

Edited January 5, 2014 by sfnetwork

[jwill 28]

I'm almost at the point to drop FlexRAID and focus only on a better pooling solution (and take the chance that one of my drives will die and I'll loose the data). 

Don't let your data loose!  Use a leash! 

[Airbender 113]

I'm almost at the point to drop FlexRAID and focus only on a better pooling solution (and take the chance that one of my drives will die and I'll lose the data). Yeah, that annoying for me...

I guess I might give it a REAL try this weekend (tRAID).

Just wish someone else would have tested the pooling first (I have A LOT of data)

Maybe, if possible, I'll just do the pooling first (no parity).

Hi

 

Ok i manage to get my HTPC working again as test pc with few old drives but to be honest with you tRaid is bitch not able to figure out a way to create just pool with no Raid

 

Here are screenshots

 

 

Once i figure out a way to just create the pool then i can provide you with results

[Airbender 113]

@@Airbender

What bout those "access denied" on xml files during scans?

This issue is really starting to piss me off (also affecting MetaBrowser on modifications now...)

 

I mean RAID-F vs tRAID pooling.

Hi

 

I am stuck by my self on that whole thing and new issue with Parity rebuild in Raid F

at this moment i am not seeing options even to recompute the parity in Raid F so go figure

You can see complete screenshots and detail here http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php?topic=3266.msg22082#new

[Airbender 113]

moving files within a disk has no adverse impacts with RAIDF or RAIDT

Editing and Deleting will invalidate your parity in RAIDF  (can adversely affect a restore until the parity is updated)

Added files will of couse not be included in your parity and therefore not in a restore unit the parity is updated

your should ask these questions on the flexraid forums where the real experts lurk

Hi

 

I do see your point but in my opinion sharing some information here is valid also as other learn

i did open a post in there updating parity is the problem now

you will see over 30 screenshots and logs in here http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php?topic=3266.msg22082#new

 

Thanks

Edited January 6, 2014 by Airbender

[Airbender 113]

pooling is a PIA in RAIDF, i dont use it - all sort of problems with shares and permissions

Its much better in RAIDT, I still don't use it

Hi,

 

but he has simple question on HowTo create just pool in tRaid with no Raid or parity

i think that should be an easy setup. at this moment i see a user can install Host package in Host pc and client in any pc he wants

connect the host and client via ip address or domain name that is great and clever but the option of adding disk and setup is not very clear  and little confusing also.

 

Thanks

[Airbender 113]

Hello

 

Here is answer: it is not possible to have just pool in tRaid

 

 

This is currently not possible in tRAID. There is plan to make it an option in future releases.

Nevertheless, this is possible in RAID-F in Expert mode configuration.

 

 

Hope this help everyone

[sfnetwork 514]

Lol.  I had this problem too.   I was getting really pissed off and dumbfounded to figure this one out.   Eventually I got it solved but it was a PITA,  and I never really figured out the solution.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438027/mfusicks-how-to-build-an-affordable-30tb-flexraid-media-server-information-requested/2400_100#post_24169424

 

There was some explanation a ways back on my flexraid thread on AVS.  I ended up PMing Brahim (Flexraid developer) for some help.

 

I think what I figured out is that with Flexraid pooling you have two options -  you have space priority and balancing where it will try to fill all drives and you have the priority when it tried to keep everything to together.

 

If one of your hard drives fills up, and then someone edits or creates a metadata file like mediacentermaster or MB server-   it often will create the file on another hard drive.   A hard drive that does not have your original movie folder on it with the MKV or ISO inside it.   It will actually create a new folder on a new hard drive named the same and store it there.    When pooling is on it all looks like it's in the same place, but when pooling is off it's really not.

 

The trouble you have (and I had) was that it was either on a different hard drive that could not be edited for some reason (full ?) or that there was two duplicate copies created on two hard drives named the same which throws an error to something like MCM where it is locked and you can't edit it.

 

The easiest way to fix this is to consolidate your move folders.  

 

One thing I found out was that if I copied the movie folder over to my desktop (or another folder or hard drive just make sure you copy and not move) and then deleted the original and then pasted back the folder I copied the problem went away.

 

That is probably the easy solution, but it's not the real solution or the best solution.   If you want to trouble shoot this with my jump into my AVS thread and ask and we can give is a second shot.   I know two others with this same problem that would participate.

 

I believe the problem is either duplicate copies of meta data, or a copy in a location that can not be edited or rewritten to for some reason.  And it is not permissions related is my guess.   

yeah, all that to basically confirm that RAID-F pooling isn't great... That's my issue. I don't want to have to consolidate folders, etc... that was the point of the pooling solution in the first place.

I use the "auto-folder-priority" in pooling.

 

As for traid... I can't "test" it really... The ONLY way to test the pooling is to actually use my real data and this is WAY to much work (and risk?) to only test if pooling is really better.

It's not just about those access denied, there are scanning performance issues also (more with Plex and MetaBrowser but still).

Plus, Brahim mentioned traid pooling will be ported in RAID-F but when, that's what bothers me, it could take a while...

 

My focus is more on the pooling than the fault tolerance. This is why RAID-F interested me more; just one parity update per day leaving it alone during the rest of the time...

 

I tested some scanning (MB, MetaBrowser, Plex, etc...) for the same number of items in pooling and out of the pooling (same drives/data) and it's REALLY different.

 

But even with all that being said, RAID-F is still my best (only) real choice based on my needs and environment...

Edited January 7, 2014 by sfnetwork

[Airbender 113]

Hi @sfnetwork

 

No worries i got your back on test part now that the tRaid completed i am going be able to do all kind of test and i request 21 days trial key so i can properly work with it. i will keep you posted with some screenshots. at this moment i am not sure how to create pool after the raid completed and FlexRAID wiki page is keep going down for me so i have to try accessing it again and once it is up i will be able to look up the rest of the wiki pages and howto's

 

Thanks

[Airbender 113]

Hello @sfnetwork

 

Sorry i am not able to see or find a way to create just the pool in tRaid so i am going with creating the raid so i can do more testing

But i do have post open and it has alot of good information's that might help others so here is the link 

http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,3168.0.html

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Edited January 6, 2014 by Airbender

[Mfusick 38]

@@Airbender

What bout those "access denied" on xml files during scans?

This issue is really starting to piss me off (also affecting MetaBrowser on modifications now...)

 

I mean RAID-F vs tRAID pooling.

 

Lol.  I had this problem too.   I was getting really pissed off and dumbfounded to figure this one out.   Eventually I got it solved but it was a PITA,  and I never really figured out the solution.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438027/mfusicks-how-to-build-an-affordable-30tb-flexraid-media-server-information-requested/2400_100#post_24169424

 

There was some explanation a ways back on my flexraid thread on AVS.  I ended up PMing Brahim (Flexraid developer) for some help.

 

I think what I figured out is that with Flexraid pooling you have two options -  you have space priority and balancing where it will try to fill all drives and you have the priority when it tried to keep everything to together.

 

If one of your hard drives fills up, and then someone edits or creates a metadata file like mediacentermaster or MB server-   it often will create the file on another hard drive.   A hard drive that does not have your original movie folder on it with the MKV or ISO inside it.   It will actually create a new folder on a new hard drive named the same and store it there.    When pooling is on it all looks like it's in the same place, but when pooling is off it's really not.

 

The trouble you have (and I had) was that it was either on a different hard drive that could not be edited for some reason (full ?) or that there was two duplicate copies created on two hard drives named the same which throws an error to something like MCM where it is locked and you can't edit it.

 

The easiest way to fix this is to consolidate your move folders.  

 

One thing I found out was that if I copied the movie folder over to my desktop (or another folder or hard drive just make sure you copy and not move) and then deleted the original and then pasted back the folder I copied the problem went away.

 

That is probably the easy solution, but it's not the real solution or the best solution.   If you want to trouble shoot this with my jump into my AVS thread and ask and we can give is a second shot.   I know two others with this same problem that would participate.

 

I believe the problem is either duplicate copies of meta data, or a copy in a location that can not be edited or rewritten to for some reason.  And it is not permissions related is my guess.   

[Airbender 113]

Hello Mfusick's,

Glad to hear back from you my friend long time no talk so anyway the post you provided is a 83 page on how to build with title:

Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 83

 

I dont want to highjack your post there perhaps a newer post would be better however in my issue i did Move files around by copy them and paste them and cut them and so on and it did not work. and i am stuck with recompute the parity as i don't see the option and my second trial of 21 days of Raid F ended

 

as far Drives getting full unless Pool and parity kik in all my drives in the pool are kinda individual and they been labeled properly  and i dont create folders in the pool space as the data can end up in any of the drives so i make sure i enter the drive in the pool and then put the files there

 

I am considering to move SABNZBD off The raid drives and that will give me advantage not moving data around to much but keep the data as same and only add to them as i get new stuff

 

Thanks

[Airbender 113]

Hello Guys so here are some screenshots of tRaid

 

When The Raid complete user has an option to enable the Pool and Start it but once it is up you will see your all drive except parity drives

and then V which is Pool drive. Now if you create a file in any drive the Pool will show these folders so you have options to use the pool or just access the individual drives. Because i did not by the software yet so far i like tRaid as it is gives me the proper options i like but still to eairy to deiced 

 

Let see how it goes

 

Edited January 7, 2014 by Airbender

[Airbender 113]

Hello

 

here is better screen shot

[Airbender 113]

Hello

Everything seems to be going well with tRaid except i am not sure how to enable network shares of the pooled folder
does anyone know how to do that ? it seems the forgot to put that in their wiki

Thanks