revengineer 125 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, Luke said: Hi, do you use Emby Guide Data? I do at the moment for convenience because using the built-in guide data is easy to configure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinrh 174 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 On 3/21/2024 at 12:08 PM, pwhodges said: What free app is being replaced? Android TV app is not free. Paul I don't recall paying for the ATV app on my two Shields. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abejo 10 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Hi, I am from Argentina, I bought a lifetime license, and here that cost is already high, an average salary is 300 USD, a license ends up costing a third of the salary. I think they should not only take into account the costs in the US and Europe, but those in Latin America as well. Perhaps what they should see to increase income is to add other types of services, for example IPTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14913 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 On 3/23/2024 at 9:54 PM, revengineer said: A low hanging fruit to raise revenue seems to be the TV guide data. I was concerned when this was introduced that the ongoing cost for these data is not sustainable with the lifetime option. The TV guide data are of limited use to me as I need international guides not available through emby, so I pay for these from another source anyway. Perhaps a monthly fee can be charged for these data. Yes, this is something currently under discussion internally as well. Since this item is actually our largest cost (other than labor) and not everyone uses it, it may make sense to align this cost to the ones who actually are using it. This could also possibly allow us to offer this data in more regions. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh_48 943 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 38 minutes ago, ebr said: Yes, this is something currently under discussion internally as well. Since this item is actually our largest cost (other than labor) and not everyone uses it, it may make sense to align this cost to the ones who actually are using it. This could also possibly allow us to offer this data in more regions. Actually I believe that Emby should not even try to handle live TV. There are plenty of other programs that handle live TV and, particularly if it is Emby's largest expense, supporting the extreme complexities just makes little sense. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daldana 47 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Actually, I believe that people who don't use Live TV should have a say about whether to increase costs just for it or abandon it altogether. Some of us use it as a daily driver for our TV needs, both Live and recording, and have been using it for years. As for there being "other programs that handle Live TV", who wants to jump around from app to app to enjoy some entertainment? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewds 93 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 hours ago, daldana said: Actually, I believe that people who don't use Live TV should have a say about whether to increase costs just for it or abandon it altogether. Some of us use it as a daily driver for our TV needs, both Live and recording, and have been using it for years. As for there being "other programs that handle Live TV", who wants to jump around from app to app to enjoy some entertainment? I bought premiere and a tuner recommended by Emby specifically for OTA recording. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronstang 202 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, andrewds said: I bought premiere and a tuner recommended by Emby specifically for OTA recording. I bought emby Premiere specifically for LiveTV as app purchases would suffice for the way I use emby. Three and a half years later although I like LiveTV and it looks better than any other app or cable box and it's intended function is better than anything I have seen under the hood it has issues that keeps me from actually getting rid of my EXPENSIVE cable company equipment. Now they are saying they may not even release NextTV.....which also means thy won't fix the current one and on top of that I may have to start paying for guide data on top of that. I love emby but this is no way to run a business. I ran a very successful niche business for years. No one that tried could compete with us, we were the only source because all others couldn't do what we did because they didn't follow the basic tenets of a successful business. Learn your trade inside and out, constantly improve and innovate, and most important..."under promise and over deliver". My wife uses LiveTV everyday but because she simply doesn't know how to back out of a channel without leaving it running and running (but she shouldn't have to) when I was gone for a week two weeks ago I came home to my "C" drive completely consumed by "transcoding temp" files. Edited March 27 by Ronstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaku 795 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, Ronstang said: I bought emby Premiere specifically for LiveTV as app purchases would suffice for the way I use emby. Three and a half years later although I like LiveTV and it looks better than any other app or cable box and it's intended function is better than anything I have seen under the hood it has issues that keeps me from actually getting rid of my EXPENSIVE cable company equipment. Now they are saying they may not even release NextTV.....which also means thy won't fix the current one and on top of that I may have to start paying for guide data on top of that. I love emby but this is no way to run a business. I ran a very successful niche business for years. No one that tried could compete with us, we were the only source because all others couldn't do what we did because they didn't follow the basic tenets of a successful business. Learn your trade inside and out, constantly improve and innovate, and most important..."under promise and over deliver". They're saying the opposite: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2Play 8282 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 To a point too many options are lumped into Premiere and should be their own monthly cost. Guide data TVDB v4 As the devs can't absorb the cost of all provider data. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scb99 187 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 13 minutes ago, Happy2Play said: To a point too many options are lumped into Premiere and should be their own monthly cost. Guide data TVDB v4 As the devs can't absorb the cost of all provider data. i understand what you’re saying but I am not a fan of all that slicing and dicing charging. I want to pay a lump sum and not think any more about it. In my opinion Emby needs to make a v5, that rolls in TV Next and other key new developments, and just charge a lot more for everyone who moves onto that. V4 can be left as care and maintenance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14913 Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 14 hours ago, roaku said: They're saying the opposite: Correct. Also, we have no plans to eliminate Live TV from Emby. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminExitium 173 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 15 hours ago, Happy2Play said: TVDB v4 I am not sure how much Emby is paying for this but maybe it would be possible for users to enter their own API key instead, since it's free for individual usage (for less than $50k in revenue: https://thetvdb.com/api-information)? The form to apply for the API key does seem scary but it's basically auto approved for individual users which is how I have multiple API keys for free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCsw 122 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2024 at 10:30 PM, ebr said: Yes, this is something currently under discussion internally as well. Since this item is actually our largest cost (other than labor) and not everyone uses it, it may make sense to align this cost to the ones who actually are using it. This could also possibly allow us to offer this data in more regions. Personally I as one who is using the emby supplied guide data (for a long time now) I believe I have gotten more value from that than what I paid for my lifetime Premier key... Going forward I would be okay paying for the guide data separately from other emby Premier features. I would hope emby will negotiate with the appropriate regional guide data providers (bulk quantities usually gets a better price) and then charge us regionally (those that want it) at a cost neutral price to emby, for the service (that way emby would not profit from being a reseller (in other words not look greedy)) but would stop absorbing this large expense that would be better spent on coders (and maybe a little better documentation) ! This way people that don’t use the guide data (along with guide users) would get the benefit of improved software while NOT subsidizing us (current) guide leaches... 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unisoft 272 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) On 27/03/2024 at 22:08, Happy2Play said: To a point too many options are lumped into Premiere and should be their own monthly cost. Guide data TVDB v4 As the devs can't absorb the cost of all provider data. BUT I already pay Schedules Direct for EPG123 for Windows Media Center guide data which can't be used on Emby due to licensing. I only do this because Emby's current Live TV is too slow and recording options and conflict resolution not on par with Media Center. Its too expensive to pay for 2 subscriptions for Guide data. If Emby TV/Recording was updated (for example Media Center supports over the air guide updates) then I would't need Windows Media Center or NextPVR. TVDB - I don't use inline lookups as scrape my own data into Emby's XML and let Emby use that which is faster and more accurate with no internet lookups anyway. Perhaps if you can demonstrate you have paid a Schedules Direct subscription/API Key this could be bypassed until Emby's TV and recording facilities become on par with Windows Media Center??? Edited March 29 by unisoft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceboy 2493 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 another live tv user that makes no use of the "free" emby gide data. my reasoning is different to the above. i agree that WMC was far more functional than emby has yet achieved wrt scheduling and recording, but i mostly managed that by throwing enough tuners at it that conflicts are impossible. my reason is ease of config and reliability. emby has come a decent way in the last couple of years but nothing has been introduced that brings it up to a par with the external options, certainly nothing thats been worth risking disruption to my rock solid setup. i prefer to manage my m3us and match my epg data from schedules direct via epg123 in iptvboss. then emby just gets 2 curated outputs that need no matching in emby. my other concern was that live tv config was not backed up by emby, so having it handled externally gave me that resilience. however, when tvnext finally sees the light in full then i would likely abandon the third party stuff and use emby guide data. I also make no use of the tvdbv4 data through emby. i prefer to use TMM to give me extra control over metadata and fetch additional info that emby does support but does not fetch. seems like some better engagement by emby with users on how they actually use their software may lead to better strategic decisions being made - whoever would have thought? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sross44 233 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/29/2024 at 9:39 AM, Spaceboy said: seems like some better engagement by emby with users on how they actually use their software may lead to better strategic decisions being made - whoever would have thought? Not necessarily for the reasons of this post…. But the Emby team has started engaging more with users here and on other forums as to how they use their servers, what use cases etc. We are making a conscious effort to engage more and “talk” to our users. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkassassin07 423 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Have you guys considered a feature bounty system? I use an android app called NZB360 to manage my arr stack. A few months back, they implemented 'feature bounties'; where users can donate to receive credits, then spend those credits encouraging development of their desired features. This creates some income, encouraging donations and provides a method of feedback about which areas to focus on; ie which features the community prioritizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14913 Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 7 minutes ago, darkassassin07 said: Have you guys considered a feature bounty system? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh_48 943 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, darkassassin07 said: Have you guys considered a feature bounty system? I use an android app called NZB360 to manage my arr stack. A few months back, they implemented 'feature bounties'; where users can donate to receive credits, then spend those credits encouraging development of their desired features. This creates some income, encouraging donations and provides a method of feedback about which areas to focus on; ie which features the community prioritizes. That is a very bad model to use to develop software. While allowing a few of the richer folks to control development direction and timing it effectively disenfranchises those of us that do not want to or are unable to donate. We are a money driven society but the effect of money is often bad and, even when it could be good, there are just too many ways money can bastardize software development. As an example of how wrong things can go think of the effect of money in the development of RoboCop in the second RoboCop movie. Money can cause too much to be done and it can limit or eliminate the effectiveness of whatever product is involved. Pay for access to features might be good but paying to have features added is just a good way to ruin the software involved. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpicard 15 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 26/03/2024 at 22:30, ebr said: Yes, this is something currently under discussion internally as well. Since this item is actually our largest cost (other than labor) and not everyone uses it, it may make sense to align this cost to the ones who actually are using it. This could also possibly allow us to offer this data in more regions. As a lifetime user, please don't add a monthly fee to my server. I would much prefer to have a one-time payment add on if I want to have the TV guide data. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCsw 122 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, benpicard said: As a lifetime user, please don't add a monthly fee to my server. I would much prefer to have a one-time payment add on if I want to have the TV guide data. I certainly agree that I don’t want to pay a monthly fee, but as I have eluded too in an above post I don’t want to be a leach on emby, there is a direct cost for emby to pay the providers for the data (TV Guide(s) and others) provided to us (not that the emby employees are free). So a lifetime subscription to these services is not reasonable in my opinion (unless it’s many hundreds of US$’s upfront) . So wouldn’t it be better for everyone if emby were to offer reasonable non-profit (1,2,3,6,12,24..) month terms for guide data ? and maybe the xxxDB’s? For the on-going data you/I/we use? P.s. Bounties are ridiculous How much are you willing to give? How much do you think it costs to develop/test/implement a new feature? i.e. So comparatively a ~120USD lifetime key will pay 1(one) programmer in the USA $15 an hour for a single 8 hour day! (x365 of these days=the poverty) … … I don’ think you will find a good (or shity) programmer willing to work for that… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37068 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, benpicard said: As a lifetime user, please don't add a monthly fee to my server. I would much prefer to have a one-time payment add on if I want to have the TV guide data. Hi, the issue is that we have to pay monthly for this data and that cost keeps going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewds 93 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I have a lifetime premiere license. The license terms only guarantee access to Live TV for the term. There's no mention of guide data. I'm not a lawyer but it doesn't seem like guide data is explicitly covered. Is the Emby team just trying to take the temperature of the community to understand impact if the guide data service is no longer included free of charge? I'll use Schedules Direct if needed. If addressing this funding issue by eliminating free guide data allows reallocation of resources to address the many open and ongoing issues with the product then my consumer feedback is that it should be done. https://emby.media/premiereterms.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richt 73 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I have a lifetime premier license as well and depending on cost, I wouldn't have any objections to an extra fee for guide data, preferably a yearly subscription hopefully slightly sell less than schedules direct cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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