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Bert

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I wouldn't do the above unless you're comfortable with partitions and know exactly what is what as it's leaving out a bit needed to identify things.

@Bert Did you install 1 or 2 m.2?
What setup did you use?
Can you grab a screen shot of the SSD setup?

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On 10/22/2021 at 8:01 PM, Bert said:

Broke down and bought the SSD. Anything special I need to do other than shut it down and pop them in? 

When you say SSD, are you talking about SATA SSDs or m2 NVMEs?

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Bert, nvme just pops in the bottom and gets recognized in storage manager in the slot after you power back up.

it makes you initialize it then assign it to whatever volume you're trying to cache against. It's pretty straightforward especially if you only have 1. You can also erase it if it had come out of something else previously which completely resets and zero's it out

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heffeque

Synology DS918+ here:

8+8 GB of RAM in dual channel

256+256 GB of cheapest NVME I could find at the moment (EMTEC X300)

A pair of 6 TB WD Purple (objectively the most silent CMR drives I could find). Will buy more once space starts getting scarce (I love SHR-1).

Aaaanyway, any cheap NVME that you set up as read/write cache will make your NAS go a lot faster on small file transfers, data base IO... and Emby's menu!

DSM 7 does a friggin' great job with the NVME cache.

RAM in dual channel mode might be helping too.

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:50 PM, heffeque said:

Synology DS918+ here:

8+8 GB of RAM in dual channel

256+256 GB of cheapest NVME I could find at the moment (EMTEC X300)

A pair of 6 TB WD Purple (objectively the most silent CMR drives I could find). Will buy more once space starts getting scarce (I love SHR-1).

Aaaanyway, any cheap NVME that you set up as read/write cache will make your NAS go a lot faster on small file transfers, data base IO... and Emby's menu!

DSM 7 does a friggin' great job with the NVME cache.

RAM in dual channel mode might be helping too.

That's great to know @heffeque. With the NVME though, the DSM 7 optimizes the cache for the whole system and I'm wondering if that improves emby performance as much or better than installing emby to a SSD volume where you can specifically configure the transcoding folder and database to always be in the "fast" cache. I suppose if you have a big enough NVME cache and use emby as your main app, DSM 7 is going to keep most of the emby files in cache. I'm sure having both NVME and SSDs will be the best possible option, but I wonder if the performance between doing both is really noticeable.Thanks for the info.

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If you can sacrifice drive bays on your NAS to use for SSD that a volume directly on that is going to be ideal.

But I would not even think of doing that on anything with 5 or less drive bays as you'll later be kicking yourself in the but when you want to add another HDD but can't because of a 1TB or so SSD using the drive bay. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
heffeque
On 10/31/2021 at 4:24 PM, Tremas said:

That's great to know @heffeque. With the NVME though, the DSM 7 optimizes the cache for the whole system and I'm wondering if that improves emby performance as much or better than installing emby to a SSD volume where you can specifically configure the transcoding folder and database to always be in the "fast" cache. I suppose if you have a big enough NVME cache and use emby as your main app, DSM 7 is going to keep most of the emby files in cache. I'm sure having both NVME and SSDs will be the best possible option, but I wonder if the performance between doing both is really noticeable.Thanks for the info.

NVME won't help for transcoding. It will help with Emby's interface.

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3 minutes ago, heffeque said:

NVME won't help for transcoding. It will help with Emby's interface.

I disagree.. I hardly ever transcode so can't speak to that but IMO made zero improvement anywhere. 

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I disagree with both of you.  NVME setup as R/W caching helps for display as the graphics will be in the cache and won't need to get read off disk.
If setup for write caching then transcoding will likely never get written to disk (depends on cache size).

Of course this is all generally speaking as size of cache and what you having running on the NAS does matter to what stays in the cache.

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  • 5 weeks later...
LiaraAlis

Hello together,

because I also have the problem that the interface (library listing) is loading very slow on all devices, no matter if I am connected via the local network or via internet.
Once the interface has loaded, everything works fast, playing media, browsing through the media and all other things.

I have already asked myself if a ssd cache can make a difference. I started the ssd cache advisor 3 days ago and today it advises me to use a ssd cache with 1.2 TB.

image.png.525bfc767ccb7be06900ab6bb2df3b06.png

But I have doubts using a ssd cache in terms of the lifetime of the M.2 drives. In 2019, iDomiX has already posted a blog entry about ssd caches and lifetime: https://idomix.de/das-problem-mit-dem-synology-ssd-cache-und-samsung-m-2-sata-ssds

According to this article, the Samsung EVO 850 m.2 SATA SSD would reach it's lifetime after two years. So there is a lot to be said for not buying the cheapest and investing in SSDs that have a long lifespan. This means, you have to invest about 250-300€ for two 1 TB SSDs. I'm not sure if this is worth it.

This is one of my problems with this topic.
My other problem is a bigger one. I'm using Emby on a Synology DS718+, because of that I can only use SSD cache with 2,5" SATA SSDs because the DS718+ has no M.2 slots… So because it is no option for me to use only one drive, I can only buy a new DiskStation (for example the DS720+) or the DX517 expansion unit in order to use SSD cache.

Long story shot: My question is, is there a way to make the interface more fast? Could it be a way to vacuum the database or to enable downloading images in advance in all libraries?

 

Best regards,
Alexander

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Malterstorp

Hi. I have a similar problem! The performance on the FireTV Cube is terrible when it comes to displaying images. The Cube is connected via 5GHz and reaches about 300-400 MBit. However, the images in the gallery are loading and loading, which is very annoying when viewing. Even if you then look at completed images go so the first 3-4 images without problems and then comes a placeholder image. You have to go back and then click again on the image and then it is displayed.

Would a solution via an eSATA SSD be a possibility here? I use a DS918+ with Ironwolf HDDs. 

 

IMG_8854.JPG

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FrostByte
On 12/16/2021 at 6:07 AM, LiaraAlis said:

Hello together,

because I also have the problem that the interface (library listing) is loading very slow on all devices, no matter if I am connected via the local network or via internet.
Once the interface has loaded, everything works fast, playing media, browsing through the media and all other things.

I have already asked myself if a ssd cache can make a difference. I started the ssd cache advisor 3 days ago and today it advises me to use a ssd cache with 1.2 TB.

image.png.525bfc767ccb7be06900ab6bb2df3b06.png

But I have doubts using a ssd cache in terms of the lifetime of the M.2 drives. In 2019, iDomiX has already posted a blog entry about ssd caches and lifetime: https://idomix.de/das-problem-mit-dem-synology-ssd-cache-und-samsung-m-2-sata-ssds

According to this article, the Samsung EVO 850 m.2 SATA SSD would reach it's lifetime after two years. So there is a lot to be said for not buying the cheapest and investing in SSDs that have a long lifespan. This means, you have to invest about 250-300€ for two 1 TB SSDs. I'm not sure if this is worth it.

This is one of my problems with this topic.
My other problem is a bigger one. I'm using Emby on a Synology DS718+, because of that I can only use SSD cache with 2,5" SATA SSDs because the DS718+ has no M.2 slots… So because it is no option for me to use only one drive, I can only buy a new DiskStation (for example the DS720+) or the DX517 expansion unit in order to use SSD cache.

Long story shot: My question is, is there a way to make the interface more fast? Could it be a way to vacuum the database or to enable downloading images in advance in all libraries?

 

Best regards,
Alexander

Play around with the cache setting on the server may help.  It also has a vacuum.  I think the additional cache setting helped mine.

vacuum.jpg.087fc1a16de01c08b840b3967d058ff7.jpg

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FrostByte
2 minutes ago, bjjones said:

I don't have that tab on my server dashboard, do I have to enable it somehow or is it hidden somewhere else in 4.6.7.0 ?

Hmm...I thought it was in the latest stable.  If not those settings can be modified in the system.ini file in previous versions.

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LiaraAlis

@FrostByte

Thank you for this tip. I also do not have this menu after upgrading to 4.6.7.0. I can see this menu item when using Emby Theater but not when using the browser.

image.png.7fba0e67d950496d5c657ac74b4a79c9.png

And the content looks different to your screenshot when using Emby theater:

image.thumb.png.adc8e3d0bad43f66596a5b818866fb40.png

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FrostByte

You can also change cache and vacuum from the system.ini.  They have been hidden options for a long time.  Sorry, I thought the new tab would have been in stable by now.  

  <VacuumDatabaseOnStartup>false</VacuumDatabaseOnStartup>
  <DatabaseCacheSizeMB>1024</DatabaseCacheSizeMB>
  <OptimizeDatabaseOnShutdown>true</OptimizeDatabaseOnShutdown>
  <DatabaseAnalysisLimit>1000</DatabaseAnalysisLimit>

 

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On 12/16/2021 at 6:07 AM, LiaraAlis said:

image.png.525bfc767ccb7be06900ab6bb2df3b06.png

But I have doubts using a ssd cache in terms of the lifetime of the M.2 drives. In 2019, iDomiX has already posted a blog entry about ssd caches and lifetime: https://idomix.de/das-problem-mit-dem-synology-ssd-cache-und-samsung-m-2-sata-ssds

I would get 2 1 TB sticks and call it good enough. That's what I'm running with 3 14TB drives and an 18TB in my 920+.
I'm in the process of replacing the 14TB WD shucked USB3 drives as the read/write performance sucks on them and just makes the box sluggish even with the cache.
I 'm replacing the 5400 spinning rust drives now with Data Center Drives : HGST 18TB 512MB 7200RPM SATA Ultra 512E SE NP Storage DEVIC.  These drives have a lot more onboard cache, are safe to turn on deferred write cache and spin about 35% faster as well as have a much longer predicted life.  The warranty is longer at 5 years and these drives are made to run hot 100% of the time with the heaviest duty cycles. Warranty service is also handled much differently as well.  "Go to the front of the line" for returns/replacements.

 

13 hours ago, Malterstorp said:

Would a solution via an eSATA SSD be a possibility here? I use a DS918+ with Ironwolf HDDs. 

I mentioned I would test this and never did.  Well it's good timing because I just formatted a 1 TB Samsung SSD to do a bit of testing with on a Pi 4 8GB model running Windows 11.  Yep you read that correct.  It works surprising well and I just started tuning it.  Before I get any further with this I'll make an image of what I have on it so I can put it back.  I'll then set this up tomorrow and do a few tests to see what overall read/write performance is like to it vs the array. I'll likely need to flush the present read/write cache and remove it.

I'd do this today but I'm about 50% through a data scrub operation after replacing the first drive mentioned above. Should be done by tomorrow.  I'll start a new thread for this and try to keep the SSD free for some follow up tests I'm sure someone will think of that makes sense to try.

I may just start with getting some numbers of what the IO and throughput is like for the USB3/SSD so see how much penalty there is.  Then maybe just setup Emby to use that for Transcoding and DVR and see how many channels I can record as well as playback.  Get some real world testing in.  Then maybe flush the read/write cache and get a base line on the RAID volume as well.

I'm wondering myself if having the read/write cache as well as USB/SSD helps or hurts performance.  I wouldn't doubt if it hurts performance like this but is much better with just pure HDDs.

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On 12/17/2021 at 2:06 PM, FrostByte said:

You can also change cache and vacuum from the system.ini.  They have been hidden options for a long time.  Sorry, I thought the new tab would have been in stable by now.  

  <VacuumDatabaseOnStartup>false</VacuumDatabaseOnStartup>
  <DatabaseCacheSizeMB>1024</DatabaseCacheSizeMB>
  <OptimizeDatabaseOnShutdown>true</OptimizeDatabaseOnShutdown>
  <DatabaseAnalysisLimit>1000</DatabaseAnalysisLimit>

 

system.ini ? I found a system.xml, that looks formatted like these would fit in, or is there a system.ini also somewhere ?

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For any of you wondering about using an SSD via USB3 the testing has begun:

Hit the first snag in testing trying to get some baseline numbers so any ideas would be appreciated.

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FrostByte
28 minutes ago, bjjones said:

system.ini ? I found a system.xml, that looks formatted like these would fit in, or is there a system.ini also somewhere ?

I think I was short on sleep that day.  Yes, system.xml is correct.

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