unnecessary transcoding

[psi 1]

unfortunately, after upgrading emby server, i found ALL my, previously directly playable, media files were transcoding, and with poor image and v.poor sound, obviously a very low bit rate, basically unwatchable.

so over the last couple of days i have; downgraded to the old version, problem went away, re-upgraded,  rebuilt database etc. checked setting, upgraded player device software, and from searching this community, in which there seems quite a few references to this problem, i tried upping player bandwidth, looking into subtitles, plus other things over many hours.

at various points some files stopped transcoding, started again, stopped again etc. no real pattern to it.

so i have now checked for and found two IDENTICALLY encoded files, one that currently always does, and one that doesn't, transcode, and i swapped them, that is, moved the file AND changed the name. and the result was that the transcoding swapped, transcoding stopped on a file simply by renaming it?

so conclusion:

transcoding is now happening, independently of:

1. server settings
2. player version and settings
3. the FILE itself.

so, in the latest server and unless im missing a variable, transcoding seems to be just random...


this is on: Ubunyu 15.10 in docker, playing to a now tv.

[Luke 42077]

Hi. check out our wiki on transcoding:

 

https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Wiki/wiki/Transcoding

 

Scroll down to the section:

Why Is My Media Transcoding?

Let us know if you still have issues or questions. Thanks.

[speechles 2055]

http://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/24151-theme-blue-neon-night/

 

You can try sideloading the app above. It gives additional features for advanced users. In this app, you can force directstream vs transcoding. Read the entire thread above and you should see how things work.

 

Anything transcoding on "auto-detect" that direct plays when using "force directstream" we need to know about. The media info shown in the web client for them, and the transcode log made with "auto-detect".

 

The official roku client offers only "auto-detect". So to better this auto-detection for others who arent advanced users, occassionally help is required from advanced users. So wont you please help us, so that we can help you? ^_~

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[psi 1]

quote from above post: "searching this community... over many hours"

 

quote from your wiki on transcoding:  "My Files Shouldn't Be Transcoding. How Do I Report This? Please report this in our community:"

 

i know they should not be trancoding because they didn't before the update, and its all files randomly as demonstrated by the issue changing on the SAME file.

 

of the many other posts that seem to be this problem, hence your specific wiki i guess, i havent found a solution, and from the posts i dont see others having much luck.

[speechles 2055]

@@psi read my post above yours. Use the force. The jedi version for your nowtv is there. The dark side is strong, but together we are stronger.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[psi 1]

saw that suggestion in other posts, and would try that, except i'm using the docker image.

 

so i hoped there might be a simpler solution to try.

 

i'd be happy with no transcoding ever, it's very easy to modify the files, as i did previously.

 

http://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/24151-theme-blue-neon-night/

You can try sideloading the app above. It gives additional features for advanced users. In this app, you can force directstream vs transcoding. Read the entire thread above and you should see how things work.

Anything transcoding on "auto-detect" that direct plays when using "force directstream" we need to know about. The media info shown in the web client for them, and the transcode log made with "auto-detect".

The official roku client offers only "auto-detect". So to better this auto-detection for others who arent advanced users, occassionally help is required from advanced users. So wont you please help us, so that we can help you? ^_~

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Luke 42077]

I'm not sure what the issue with the wiki is because it is designed to help you. It also lists the information that you can provide which will help you get an answer as to why.

[psi 1]

also;

 

i have a wide range of file types, generally lowish bit rates, they just nearly all fail to play directly now.

 

so listing the ones that dont play now sounds like it might be a long list.

[Luke 42077]

Well I'm starting to give up here because nowhere in that wiki article did it say to list every file If you decide you would like to read it and provide the info then we're here to help.

[psi 1]

no issue with the wiki, but an issue with your post, telling to go to the wiki which i had just read and told me to come here, which is why i quoted it back to you.

 

I'm not sure what the issue with the wiki is because it is designed to help you. It also lists the information that you can provide which will help you get an answer as to why.

[psi 1]

that is in reply to the other conversation. please give up.

 

Well I'm starting to give up here because nowhere in that wiki article did it say to list every file If you decide you would like to read it and provide the info then we're here to help.

[psi 1]

this is all just FWIW;

 

could it be that fundamentally the 'algorithm' for auto detect goes like this;

 

'if you dont know for sure it'll play then transcode it to a know playable format'

 

and could the previous 'algorithm' have been;

 

'if its a known codec, and below a bitrate, then direct play it.'

 

maybe the new method relies too heavily, on 'know for sure'.

[ebr 16169]

maybe the new method relies too heavily, on 'know for sure'.

 

Its not possible for us to rely too heavily on "know for sure" because the number one goal is that the item plays when it is requested.  We want it to play in the best possible manner but, if we don't have enough data to be absolutely sure it will direct stream/play, then we need to take the route where we know it will play.

[speechles 2055]

Psi, you alter the app on your nowtv. So sideload your nowtv with ( http://ereader.kiczek.com/emby-roku-blueneonnight.zip ). It is this app that gives you extra features, not anything to do with the server. It doesnt matter you are using docker, windows, mac, or whatever for the server.

 

It is the ability to force directstream and see do they really play we care about. If they direct play with force directstream and transcode with auto-detect then something can be fixed. If they fail to play at all when using force directstream and always transcode on auto-detect this means everything is working fine.

 

When an item is newly added to the server. It may not generate metadata for the item yet. So the item will exist in your library, but not with media info metadata. This means just an empty placeholder image is shown. When media info is missing it has no choice but to transcode. This is where you can force directstream on the nowtv and force it to see it as directly playable. This is what I do. But I understand why this happens. Now do you?

 

Edit:

The auto-detect for the roku/nowtv is sent as what it can direct play, and if transcoding occurs it gets to send a wish list. There are addtional formats/codecs that can direct play and be repackaged into the hls .ts containers and used for transcoding. This is what the blue neon night roku app is doing. It formats the wish list when transcoding based on the codecs already used. It isnt just packaging all as h264/aac unless you leave the preferences at default. So please change things in preferences to play around. You cannot break it. If you need anything explained then please just ask. The method used for auto-detection is top notch. There is some room for improvement but it is highly accurate already.

Edited December 5, 2015 by speechles

[psi 1]

thanks, i will try the advanced player app.

 

you do realise that all the files i'm talking about, with a wide range of encodings, played directly with the old server?  

 

and i did guess that the media library needed to be updated for things to work right, so i always waited (sometimes for hours) for that to happen before i checked for transcoding.

 

Psi, you alter the app on your nowtv. So sideload your nowtv with ( http://ereader.kiczek.com/emby-roku-blueneonnight.zip ). It is this app that gives you extra features, not anything to do with the server. It doesnt matter you are using docker, windows, mac, or whatever for the server.

It is the ability to force directstream and see do they really play we care about. If they direct play with force directstream and transcode with auto-detect then something can be fixed. If they fail to play at all when using force directstream and always transcode on auto-detect this means everything is working fine.

When an item is newly added to the server. It may not generate metadata for the item yet. So the item will exist in your library, but not with media info metadata. This means just an empty placeholder image is shown. When media info is missing it has no choice but to transcode. This is where you can force directstream on the nowtv and force it to see it as directly playable. This is what I do. But I understand why this happens. Now do you?

Edit:
The auto-detect for the roku/nowtv is sent as what it can direct play, and if transcoding occurs it gets to send a wish list. There are addtional formats/codecs that can direct play and be repackaged into the hls .ts containers and used for transcoding. This is what the blue neon night roku app is doing. It formats the wish list when transcoding based on the codecs already used. It isnt just packaging all as h264/aac unless you leave the preferences at default. So please change things in preferences to play around. You cannot break it. If you need anything explained then please just ask. The method used for auto-detection is top notch. There is some room for improvement but it is highly accurate already.

[speechles 2055]

If you are using an older version of the client, this can cause it. The server are client usually run best in lock step.

 

The older version of mediabrowser for roku told the server when it would require transcoding, otherwise would request directplay on its own.

 

The new emby for roku, sends a direct play profile and a transcoding "wishlist" profile. The server now decides whether the file is direct played or transcoded and to which codecs.

 

Keep us updated on your progress. The entire point of emby is recreational. Not confrontational. So the more you can help us, the easier it is to help you. Luke has this down to a "somewhat cold" and "often repeated" pasting about the wiki and such. This may seem you are being treated unfairly as stupid, when the reality is anything but. Perception is everything. Sorry if you perceived this as an attack. I am sure it wasnt.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Edited December 5, 2015 by speechles

[psi 1]

that didn't go smoothly...  could it be running the now tv box out of memory?

 

anyway, got it installed, started a film, it trancoded, not sure that was nessesery or not, so pressed back and it struck on "retrieving", and it left a transcoding job running (ffmpeg) perminently, so i tried again and it came out without getting stuck but left another ffmpeg running, so a 'restarted' the server through the web interface, and that stuck, with 100% cpu usage from the browser, so i closed the page, and after a while the ffmpeg threads stopped.

 

generally all attempts to go 'back' result in a crash, and about half the attempts to 'ok', but i did get stuff to play by keeping restarting it, and i see some files as before, being transcoded, when others, exactly the same encoded, doesn't.

 

i reset everything, and the above repeats exactly.

 

i looked at the options and set to taking mpeg4 and acc directly,

 

with the same two identically encoded files, (actually the ones i originally swapped to show the contents of the file made no difference.) still do the same, ie one plays directly and one doesn't.

[speechles 2055]

To get to the right options. On the screen which has "play" where you can click and play the video. Dont do it yet. Go down to the "more..." selection and click. In this options menu that pops up, you can select to force a play method. "Force DirectPlay" will never work. Focus on "Force DirectStream" and then trying to play an item that transcoded before. If it plays while force directstream is selected then you are right, there is work to do.

 

The app is large, but it should work on nowtv the same as roku. The large size is from having the two themes both standard and blue neon inside the same app directly.

Edited December 6, 2015 by speechles

[psi 1]

getting somewhere 'diect stream' works!!

 

and going back to auto, re-enables transcoding.

 

this is what VLC says about the test file

 

[psi 1]

tried another file, same thing;

 

[psi 1]

just one more, unless others would be helpful.

 

[psi 1]

i have to go now, but will be available tomorrow.

[speechles 2055]

Would need to know what the media info shows like on your now tv.

Specifically the media info of "480p/h264/aac (mp4)" in the screenshot above. You can make a screenshot the same way from your nowtv developer page, under the utilities tab. This media info is what determines how the server identified the media and will treat it. Just need to know what yours has showing in that spot. Make sure to raise the default max video bitrate in preferences up from 3.2Mb/s as this can induce transcoding. Thanks.

Edited December 6, 2015 by speechles

[psi 1]

i don't see that, i get the file name and length in mins only, whether the media is transcoded or not.

 

[speechles 2055]

@@psi, you need to be using the blue neon app to see this information. When using the normal emby roku app you cannot see it. To see it without changing roku clients you need to see the media info that shows on emby server, from the web client view. You need to use a web browser to access it. Just the media info section is what I need to see. Thanks.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk