[Feature Request] prefer to external subtitles when embedded subtitles and external subtitles in same language

[chuwz 11]

Hi, I downloaded a movie which has an embedded Chinese subtitle, but it sucks. So I downloaded an external subtitle.

However, I found that Emby loads the embedded subtitle by default, not the external one. No matter how I adjust the subtitle settings

This is where Plex and Jellyfin do a great job, preferring external subtitles no matter what.

I know why this is, because Emby's subtitle selection has more sophisticated and complex subtitle logic than Plex and Jellyfin, Emby has “default” tag. The embedded subtitles have a “default” tag, while the external subtitles don't, so Emby chooses the embedded subtitles.

I also know that the solution is to suffix the subtitle with default, like this: Transformers (2007) - 1080p EAC3 Atmos.chi.default.srt

 

 

But naming the subtitle file that way is too complicated! 

I understand that you guys want to make a subtitle design that is perfected and much better than Plex or Jellyfin, but this makes things worse instead! Because when we download external subtitles, we must prefer external subtitles, that's for sure, even if the embedded subtitles have the “default” tag

Of course, I'm not looking to change your minds, I just want to add one option to Emby's subtitle options to ignore the “default” tag, so that I don't need to suffix subtitle files with default, and Emby will always choose external subtitles.

 

So please support this feature! Let Emby choose external subtitles in all cases! Just do what Plex and Jellyfin do!

[chuwz 11]

@LukeHi, could you please add this feature? We need Emby to select external subtitles in all cases!

[Neminem 1518]

Well if you only want external, remove embedded subs from your media files.

Its not that hard.

[ebr 16169]

Hi.  I believe we already prioritize external subs over internal ones - all other things being equal.

[chuwz 11]

6 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  I believe we already prioritize external subs over internal ones - all other things being equal.

Yes, Emby is very considerate and everything is equal. But the current situation is that I want to choose external subtitles even if Emby thinks that embedded subtitles are better than external subtitles.

Because crap embedded subtitles have the “default” tag, and I don't want to rename the external subtitles with “default”, such as "Transformers (2007) - 1080p EAC3 Atmos.chi.default.srt". It makes my subtitle file names too complicated

 

There are a lot of people with the same needs, for example in this thread "Make SRT subs default even if PGS (default) in MKV", and I think you should realize that once we use external subtitles, we definitely want to use external subtitles, even if the embedded subtitles inherently have the “default” tag!

 

Plex do this, and in their system they prefer external subtitles even if the embedded subtitles have the “default” tag and the external subtitles don't have the .en.default.srt suffix added, then they will prefer the external subtitles, which is great! (However, Emby does better elsewhere, so I still choose to stay with Emby.)

So could you please add an option to make external subtitles a higher priority, enable this option so Emby can ignore the “default” tag for embedded subtitles once external subtitles have been used. Just adding an option, would you consider it?

[chuwz 11]

9 hours ago, Neminem said:

Well if you only want external, remove embedded subs from your media files.

Its not that hard.

Thanks for your help!

but I'd rather put a “default” tag on the subtitle file (.en.default.srt) than remove the embedded subtitles. it's not difficult to remove the embedded subtitles, but in comparison, it's more complicated.

[chuwz 11]

On 2/8/2025 at 2:28 AM, ebr said:

Hi.  I believe we already prioritize external subs over internal ones - all other things being equal.

Hi, could you please take a look at my new reply? Thank you very much!

[visproduction 315]

Chu,

Did you list the external en.default.srt as the exact same file name as the media plus the en.default.srt.  If one character is different the srt sub will not become the deault. If you have done that,  then maybe the metadata in the media is set to force the subtitle to be active. 

This switch to play embedded subtitles can be turned off with many software programs.  You don't actually have to remove the embedded sub, just turn the Active setting from Yes to No.  There are command line options with some software like ffmpeg, that would let you do turn off all embedded subs to 5000 videos at once.  It's easy to scan and update all media in a server folder and subfolders.  It's would be just click once and all the .mkv media will have all embedded subtitles would turn to "not active".  I understand you may not know how to create such a script / batch file, but that doesn't change the fact that it's possible and with such a script setup, it would only take a few minutes for all your videos can be updated.

If the exact name  + .en.default.srt doesn't work, and this is an actual issue,  then asking this to be a feature, is a reasonable request.  The correct method to add such a feature, might be to run a similar script on the media to turn off active subtitles.  I think such a feature would only go one way.  Once all the embedded subtitles are turned off and you wanted to reverse the setting, you would have to pick which one to turn back on.  That becomes a tricky problem to make a user interface to give you back this option.    I just wanted to point out the other solution is really quick.  MKVtools and do it, or a full ffmpeg install.

[chuwz 11]

3 hours ago, visproduction said:

Chu,

Did you list the external en.default.srt as the exact same file name as the media plus the en.default.srt.  If one character is different the srt sub will not become the deault. If you have done that,  then maybe the metadata in the media is set to force the subtitle to be active. 

This switch to play embedded subtitles can be turned off with many software programs.  You don't actually have to remove the embedded sub, just turn the Active setting from Yes to No.  There are command line options with some software like ffmpeg, that would let you do turn off all embedded subs to 5000 videos at once.  It's easy to scan and update all media in a server folder and subfolders.  It's would be just click once and all the .mkv media will have all embedded subtitles would turn to "not active".  I understand you may not know how to create such a script / batch file, but that doesn't change the fact that it's possible and with such a script setup, it would only take a few minutes for all your videos can be updated.

If the exact name  + .en.default.srt doesn't work, and this is an actual issue,  then asking this to be a feature, is a reasonable request.  The correct method to add such a feature, might be to run a similar script on the media to turn off active subtitles.  I think such a feature would only go one way.  Once all the embedded subtitles are turned off and you wanted to reverse the setting, you would have to pick which one to turn back on.  That becomes a tricky problem to make a user interface to give you back this option.    I just wanted to point out the other solution is really quick.  MKVtools and do it, or a full ffmpeg install.

Thank you for your reply, as I said, this is working fine and when I name the subtitle file like this(.en.default.srt), the external subtitles become the default subtitles.

But the reason I posted this is because I don't want to rename the subtitle name like this(.en.default.srt), it makes the subtitle file name too complicated. I just want to name it like this(.en.srt), and I don't want to turn off embedded subtitles, again too complicated

What I want is that Emby will choose the external subtitle even if the embedded subtitle has a “default” tag and the external subtitle doesn't have a “default” tag.

 

In my personal opinion, I think Emby is too equal, and that's exactly the problem.

I wish the developers would add an option to make Emby less equal, so that external subtitles are prioritized much higher than embedded subtitles. Thus doing so we don't need to name the subtitles as such (.en.default.srt) and we don't need to use ffmepg to turn off embedded subtitles

Because developers should understand the fact that when we use external subtitles, we wanted to use external subtitles anyway. Plex and Jellyfin have always done this, external subtitles preferred

Here's more than one post with feedback like this, I hope the developers consider this request @ebr

Edited February 9, 2025 by chuwz

[visproduction 315]

I don't know if this happens, but what if a user wants things to be the other way around and they want embedded files that are set as Active to be prioritized and they don't want any old extra external file to be considered more important, just because it is there.  If Emby considered the external file to be priority even if it is not even labeled as default, aren't you taking away the rights of the user who wants the Active subtitle inside the media to be the priority.  How can a software developer give priority to one that is not even labeled as default.  What kind of programs would you end up with?  I think you would have software that only works for a few users and everyone else would just leave because the rules are crazy.

[chuwz 11]

9 hours ago, visproduction said:

I don't know if this happens, but what if a user wants things to be the other way around and they want embedded files that are set as Active to be prioritized and they don't want any old extra external file to be considered more important, just because it is there.  If Emby considered the external file to be priority even if it is not even labeled as default, aren't you taking away the rights of the user who wants the Active subtitle inside the media to be the priority.  How can a software developer give priority to one that is not even labeled as default.  What kind of programs would you end up with?  I think you would have software that only works for a few users and everyone else would just leave because the rules are crazy.

So I'd just like to add an option to the subtitle settings that when turned on, Emby ignores the “default” tag for embedded subtitles; when turned off, everything is equal.

This way it would satisfy everyone

[seanbuff 1313]

13 hours ago, visproduction said:

they don't want any old extra external file to be considered more important, just because it is there

so it begs the question, in which scenario would you have external subs if you did not intend to use them primarily?

If embedded subs were fine, there would be no need for external ones.

So the very presence of external subs should indicate that they should take a higher priority over anything else no?

[chuwz 11]

13 hours ago, visproduction said:

I don't know if this happens, but what if a user wants things to be the other way around and they want embedded files that are set as Active to be prioritized and they don't want any old extra external file to be considered more important, just because it is there.  If Emby considered the external file to be priority even if it is not even labeled as default, aren't you taking away the rights of the user who wants the Active subtitle inside the media to be the priority.  How can a software developer give priority to one that is not even labeled as default.  What kind of programs would you end up with?  I think you would have software that only works for a few users and everyone else would just leave because the rules are crazy.

“So I'd just like to add an option to the subtitle settings ***********. This way it would satisfy everyone”

Like this

[Luke 42077]

By the way the smart subtitle mode doesn’t even look at the default flag, so that may help you.

[chuwz 11]

26 minutes ago, Luke said:

By the way the smart subtitle mode doesn’t even look at the default flag, so that may help you.

I tested it and it doesn't work well. Some movies still choose PGS and some don't even choose subtitles.

So please just support this as soon as possible : ignore embedded subtitles when there are external subtitles

Many people have posted similar topics, we'd appreciate it if you could implement them in the next update of the emby server!

 

Edited February 21, 2025 by chuwz

[visproduction 315]

If an embedded subtitle is set as default inside the mkv encoded media, it may automatically override external subtitles, no matter what you do.    I have not tested this. Have a look at the RFC for mkv and perhaps test to see if this can be true.  If so, you may have to remove the subs or turn the default switch off in the media because, by design, the internal subtitles may be set to override external subtitles.  This may only happen if the default flag is set as active.  Maybe that explains why only sometimes this comes up as an issue.

see: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc9559.html#default-track-selection

Quote

5.1.4.1.5. FlagDefault Element
\Segment\Tracks\TrackEntry\FlagDefault
definition:
Set to 1 if the track (audio, video, or subtitles) is eligible for automatic selection by the player; see Section 19 for more details.

 

 

[chuwz 11]

21 minutes ago, visproduction said:

no matter what you do

Thanks for your help, but you're wrong, if you use Plex/Emby/Jellyfin at the same time you'll know: plex and jellyfin will always choose external subtitles, it's their strategy, they favor external subtitles.

Such as picture, Plex choose *SRT External*, Jellyfin choose *SUBRIP - External* though PGSSUB has “Default” tag, only Emby choose *Default PGSSUB*

Emby will choose embedded subtitles because the developers want to make everything equal, they don't favor external subtitles, so when embedded subtitles have the “default” tag, embedded subtitles will be selected.

Now I have a new idea. It's not that complicated at all, you don't need to change Emby's strategy, you just need to add an option that will satisfy everyone!

Adding an option that can be turned  off: ignore embedded subtitles when there are external subtitles

Edited February 21, 2025 by chuwz

[ebr 16169]

12 hours ago, visproduction said:

If an embedded subtitle is set as default inside the mkv encoded media, it may automatically override external subtitle

 

12 hours ago, chuwz said:

Thanks for your help, but you're wrong,

He isn't wrong in all instances.  Some players do behave this way with a strict enforcement of the tags that are there (Roku most likely would be one).  After all, that is what the data is telling the system to do.  

I understand your request and why you want it but, basically, you are asking the system to adjust to bad inputs and some players simply won't allow that.  In those instances, we would probably have to force a transcode.

[chuwz 11]

7 hours ago, ebr said:

you are asking the system to adjust to bad inputs and some players simply won't allow that.

But Plex and Jellyfin do favor external subtitles, and they've been doing so for a long time without any problems or skeptics.

They don't even give the user a choice and still do favor external subtitles.

I just want to Emby add an option so it could be on par with the Plex and Jellyfin experience. When this option turned off is no different than the original. Would you developers be willing to add an option?

[visproduction 315]

Chuwz,  You seem to not have understood the comment above from Ebr, regarding how the media default can take presidence over other external subtitles if a default is set.  Plex is setup differently.  I am not sure about Jellyfin.  I think Plex automatically may remove the default by remuxing the video.  This is not how Emby works.  Apparently, even adding the checkbox function would not resolve the subtitle issue of internal media being able to override external subtitles.  A media remux or switching off of the internal media default would be needed to match how Plex handles the media. Some examples may work even if they are labled as default.  It depends on how the media is remuxed.  The default label may still be there because the subtitle is named with the word 'default', even though the default been removed by a remux.

The issue is apparently more complex than you believe, based on your "willing to add an option" question.

This may not mean that just adding your checkbox feature request would work on Emby.  The definition of how .mkv media files playback when there is an active default subtitle tag, is the issue. Emby can NOT change how all media players, all browsers and all TV apps rules to playback .mkv video files. Perhaps there is some way to get around it, but I think you are missing this important point.  It looks like the mkv standard causes some media to force embedded subtitles.  Emby does not do a remux step for media to take this issue away.

If you force a choice to turn off internal subtitles, there is probably no easy way to turn them back on. So, what about any user who uses this new feature, gets all their internal subtitles turned off and then complains that there is no way to turn them back on?  Unchecking the option would not be enough to go in and selectively turn back on an embedded subtitle.  I think you are asking for a one way switch and anyone who prefers internal subtitles, just has no rights anymore.  Using such a switch would change all the media.  That would seem to be a function that cannot be made into a feature, because anyone who prefers the subtitles to be embedded would lose all their default embedded subtitle options in all their media when it first gets switched.

I believe a ffmpeg script can recursively remove all subtitle defaults on all .mkv media in any number of subfolders.  You may be able to switch 10,000 media with embedded subtitles off in a few minutes.  If you have to remux, then it would take longer.  They all could probably be done with one ffmpeg command line script. This is prehaps a better solution for anyone who wants this.

Incoming live TV, of course will not be fixed in this way.  

Anyway, this is the third time this issue is stated.  I hope this makes some sense.

 

[chuwz 11]

3 minutes ago, visproduction said:

Plex is setup differently.  I am not sure about Jellyfin.  I think Plex automatically may remove the default by remuxing the video.  This is not how Emby works.  Apparently, even adding the checkbox function would not resolve the subtitle issue of internal media being able to override external subtitles.  A media remux or switching off of the internal media default would be needed to match how Plex handles the media. Some examples may work even if they are labled as default.  It depends on how the media is remuxed.  The default label may still be there because the subtitle is named with the word 'default', even though the default been removed by a remux.

Hi, I realize that we're maybe not talking about the same thing with embedded subtitles, We may have misunderstood!

I'm talking about embedded subtitles that can be turned off as well as on. Not really embedded, non-closable subtitles. I can confirm that no re-encoding is needed, and the proof is that when I don't use Emby/Plex/Jellyfin, but only MX Player, I can turn off embedded subtitles and turn on external subtitles as much as I want. no remux, no need to *force turn off internal subtitles*

And then,

You said *The issue is apparently more complex than you believe, based on your "willing to add an option" question.* , 

Now I get it, I'm naive, I don't know how to develop, it should be up to you to think about how to implement this feature. You are right.

And last, 

Are things really that complicated? As demonstrated by MX Player, It's just a matter of which subtitle is selected by default! I'm discussing the issue of default options before playback. 

If Emby selects PGS, then I need to do an extra step to change the subtitles option; if Emby selects external subtitles, then I can just play it. I just hope you make a Feature where you can select external subtitles by default. This has nothing to do with playback at all

Such as video, Jellyfin automatically select external subtitles the moment you click into the movie, no remux, no need to *force turn off internal subtitles*. You may have misunderstood me. It's not that complicated.

[ebr 16169]

As I said, I understand what you are requesting and it can be made to work in many circumstances but Vis was not "wrong" in his assessment as you had claimed.  Some video players may not allow us to ignore what the inputs are telling them so we would have to work out a different way to force them.

[chuwz 11]

9 hours ago, ebr said:

As I said, I understand what you are requesting and it can be made to work in many circumstances but Vis was not "wrong" in his assessment as you had claimed.  Some video players may not allow us to ignore what the inputs are telling them so we would have to work out a different way to force them.

Sorry, I don't know how development works, I'm so naive, exactly how to implement this Feature needs to be considered by you developers