Make SRT subs default even if PGS or DVDSUB are in MKV?

[Ronstang 205]

Is it possible to force the SRT subtitle in emby as the default.  Currently I have Blu-Ray and DVD rips that have PGS and DVDSUBs within the MKV file but I also have SRT files external of the MKV and the internal ones are the default.  I would prefer the SRT subs be the default.  Can I do this without adding the SRT to the MKV or stripping the others from the MKV?  I prefer the SRT but I would like to maintain the original subs from the disc.

[Luke 37230]

Hi, this already happens, but only when all other factors are equivalent. 

Meaning, based on your subtitle preferences, which will determine whether the server is looking at default/forced flags, language, etc.

When those factors are equal between two subtitles, preferring external becomes a third factor.

[Ronstang 205]

But this does not seem to work.  I have it set to always play subs and English and I have both DVDSUB English subs in the MKV and an external SRT English sub and it keeps selecting the DVDSUB.  I don't want to deal with transcoding of any kind and SRT look better anyway. 

[Luke 37230]

Because either you have the option enabled to remember selected tracks, or all factors are not equal. 

[Ronstang 205]

8 minutes ago, Luke said:

or all factors are not equal. 

What factors?  Is this because the DVDSUB are set as default?

[GrimReaper 3330]

12 minutes ago, Ronstang said:

But this does not seem to work.  I have it set to always play subs and English and I have both DVDSUB English subs in the MKV and an external SRT English sub and it keeps selecting the DVDSUB.  I don't want to deal with transcoding of any kind and SRT look better anyway.

I can reproduce this with Sub Mode: Always show and having both embedded and external English subs, embedded gets picked on unplayed items.

[GrimReaper 3330]

11 minutes ago, Ronstang said:

What factors?  Is this because the DVDSUB are set as default?

"Default" tag should not impact selection in "Always play subs" mode and external should be preferred - though maybe some recent changes made it so.

Edit: Random check shows same behavior for Default PGSSUB, SUBRIP, MOV_TEXT as well.

Edited September 14, 2023 by GrimReaper
Random test

[rodainas 188]

I have embedded subs and always have externals, as said you need to put the default tag in the srt filename in order to take first priority.

[GrimReaper 3330]

6 minutes ago, rodainas said:

I have embedded subs and always have externals, as said you need to put the default tag in the srt filename in order to take first priority.

Never really paid attention to it, but IMHO that should not be the case and external subs should always be preferred, guided by the logic that if one already went through the trouble of obtaining them - they are likely wanting to use them. "Default" has its own subtitle mode and "Always play subs" should be tag-insensitive, at least I see it that way. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by GrimReaper

[Luke 37230]

19 minutes ago, Ronstang said:

What factors?  Is this because the DVDSUB are set as default?

default/forced flags and the language code.

[rodainas 188]

6 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Never really payed attention to it, but IMHO that should not be the case and external subs should always be preferred, guided by the logic that if one already went through the trouble of obtaining them - they are likely wanting to use it. "Default" has its own subtitle mode and "Always play subs" should be tag-insensitive, at least I see it that way. 

I have tested this long ago but,

For eg.

If you select Always Play Subtitles, simplifying this regardless of the language variable:

a. if some of the internals has the default tag it will take that one.

b. If some of the internals has the default tag and you have an eternal, it will take the internal with the default tag.

c. If some of the internals has the default tag and you have an external with default tag on filename, it will take the external.

d. If none of the internals has the default tag, and you have external with or without the default tag on the filename it will take the external.

[GrimReaper 3330]

2 minutes ago, rodainas said:

I have tested this long ago but,

For eg.

If you select Always Play Subtitles, simplifying this regardless of the language variable:

a. if some of the internals has the default tag it will take that one.

b. If some of the internals has the default tag and you have an eternal, it will take the internal with the default tag.

c. If some of the internals has the default tag and you have an external with default tag on filename, it will take the external.

d. If none of the internals has the default tag, and you have external with or without the default tag on the filename it will take the external.

Exactly, hence my disagreement with current logic, as if Always play subs was ignoring default flag, you'd get:

1. Embedded

2. External

3. External

4. External

which is likely what one wants, using external subs.

If switched to "Default" mode, you'd get:

1. Embedded

2. Embedded

3. External

4. External

making "Always play subs completely" redundant as that's exactly what you're currently getting. 

[rodainas 188]

3 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Exactly, hence my disagreement with current logic, as if Always play subs was ignoring default flag, you'd get:

1. Embedded

2. External

3. External

4. External

which is likely what one wants, using external subs.

If switched to "Default" mode, you'd get:

1. Embedded

2. Embedded

3. External

4. External

making "Always play subs completely" redundant as that's exactly what you're currently getting. 

I get your point, but in the Default mode, in the third scenario you dont get external, you get internal, in default mode when you have an internal with default tag vs an external with default tag on filename, internal always win.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by rodainas
typo

[Luke 37230]

1 minute ago, rodainas said:

in default mode when you have an internal with default tag vs an external with default tag on filename, internal always win.

 

That's not true. There is another difference causing the internal track to be picked in that case.

[rodainas 188]

4 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Exactly, hence my disagreement with current logic, as if Always play subs was ignoring default flag, you'd get:

1. Embedded

2. External

3. External

4. External

Sorry miss this one too, on the second scenario you get embedded.

[GrimReaper 3330]

1 minute ago, rodainas said:

I get your point, but in the Default mode, in the third scenario you dont get external, you get internal, in default mode when you have an internal with default tag vs an external with default tag on filename, internal always win.

?

4 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

c. If some of the internals has the default tag and you have an external with default tag on filename, it will take the external.

Nope, with both embedded Default and external Default - external should be preferred.

[GrimReaper 3330]

1 minute ago, rodainas said:

Sorry miss this one too, on the second scenario you get embedded.

You currently get embedded - you should get external, as explained.

[Luke 37230]

Just now, GrimReaper said:

?

Nope, with both embedded Default and external Default - external should be preferred.

Right exactly, if all factors are equal. But generally what happens is you dive into a specific example and you find that all factors are not equal. 

Like for example, the subtitle file doesn't have .default, or it's not named correctly, or it doesn't have a language code.

[rodainas 188]

2 minutes ago, Luke said:

That's not true. There is another difference causing the internal track to be picked in that case.

Thanks I can see it now, it is taking the internal but not because the default tag but because of the forced, I have checked a bunch a movies and its the same pattern.

[rodainas 188]

Two movies using default mode to explain the case:

[GrimReaper 3330]

5 minutes ago, rodainas said:

Two movies using default mode to explain the case:

Another of odd logic implementations, Forced and Default flags apply to completely different scenarios and same mode should not cover both - there should be Default mode and Forced mode, as applicable, and Smart mode should cover conflicting situations.

Edited September 15, 2023 by GrimReaper

[Luke 37230]

4 minutes ago, rodainas said:

Two movies using default mode to explain the case:

- probably remembering previous selections

- second example has forced flag on the embedded subtitle, but the external doesn't have it

[Luke 37230]

2 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Another of odd logic implementations, forced and default flags apply to completely different scenarios and same mode should not cover both - there should be Default mode and Forced mode, as applicable and Smart mode should cover conflicting situations.

I see no problem with his second screenshot. He picked default behavior, which means respect the flags, and it picked the forced subtitle. Looks good to me.

[rodainas 188]

1 minute ago, Luke said:

- probably remembering previous selections

- second example has forced flag on the embedded subtitle, but the external doesn't have it

No I havent played those before.

As Grim said the tags default and forced are two different things, default mode should not try to interpret them as equals or on the same category.

[Luke 37230]

Just now, rodainas said:

No I havent played those before.

As Grim said the tags default and forced are two different things, default mode should not try to interpret them as equals or on the same category.

They are not considered equal, but they are both part of the decision making process.