Roku App - Version 4.0 build 26

[Ollio 0]

4 hours ago, explor202 said:

Isn't this thread about the recent change to the Episode screen within the Roku app? I had a power failure last night, after my Roku's rebooted I went to watch a show from my library today and all of the episodes within the season folders scroll horizontally. Yesterday they scrolled vertically, like the rest of Emby does.

This looks like the same ratio I see on my 27 inch. Mind if I ask what size that TV is and how close you need to be in order to read the episode description without straining?

[pwhodges 1530]

What I find missing in the Roku's season display is the opening placement focussed on the next unviewed episode - which is implemented in the web app and the Android mobile.

Paul

[Carlo 4330]

5 hours ago, Ollio said:

This looks like the same ratio I see on my 27 inch. Mind if I ask what size that TV is and how close you need to be in order to read the episode description without straining?

That wasn't my pic so I don't know it's size.  I do have a 22" TV in my kitchen using a Roku Premiere+ but I normally use it to continue watching something while cooking or for Live TV.  I'm not normally trying to use the interface across the room since it's a pretty small TV.  I'd image if my 55" to 75" TVs are good for 8 to 10 foot then the 22" would be good to see at maybe 3 feet or so. I'd honestly not expect to have a usable interface at 6 to 8 foot (except maybe titles).  Tomorrow I will specifically try this and then I'll know.

Just from skimming the thread again it does sound like a couple different views/opinions.  Some want bigger graphics, some just want more episodes on screen, etc

No idea but just asking, would an optional view with a smaller graphics, maybe sans description and just title and date of episodes showing 2 or 3 times episodes at a time be advantageous? That would be more like a list view or a compacted playlist view. You could just about double the rows shown in that picture by not showing the episode description and scaling down the episode graphic to fit.

[Ollio 0]

4 hours ago, cayars said:

No idea but just asking, would an optional view with a smaller graphics, maybe sans description and just title and date of episodes showing 2 or 3 times episodes at a time be advantageous? That would be more like a list view or a compacted playlist view. You could just about double the rows shown in that picture by not showing the episode description and scaling down the episode graphic to fit.

What I want is to be able to read a description, not a nice looking list that serves no purpose - and now you want to make it smaller.... Might just as well get rid of all graphics and descriptions.

[Ollio 0]

6 hours ago, pwhodges said:

What I find missing in the Roku's season display is the opening placement focussed on the next unviewed episode - which is implemented in the web app and the Android mobile.

Paul

It's missing because they scroll horizontally. That conflicts with a vertical scroll so now in the name of having all features uniform across all apps, they need to make cast members, up next, continue watching etc , all scroll vertically. I mean why should the Roku have better features than a cell phone?

[pwhodges 1530]

30 minutes ago, Ollio said:

It's missing because they scroll horizontally. That conflicts with a vertical scroll

I don't see how the direction of scroll affects the possibility of presenting the scroll at a position other than the start.

Paul

[Ollio 0]

4 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

I don't see how the direction of scroll affects the possibility of presenting the scroll at a position other than the start.

Paul

What you don't see is the sarcasm.

[Carlo 4330]

49 minutes ago, Ollio said:

What I want is to be able to read a description, not a nice looking list that serves no purpose - and now you want to make it smaller.... Might just as well get rid of all graphics and descriptions.

See, here is part of the problem in that different people want different things. So even in a small thread like this opinions differ. This makes UI design tricky and sometimes there needs to be a compromise to appeal to different people.

13 hours ago, explor202 said:

I don't need to read the description of the episode I'm looking for; I read the title of the episode that I want to watch. Seeing just three episodes at a time versus 6 episodes at a time makes it slower.

[Ollio 0]

14 minutes ago, cayars said:

This makes UI design tricky and sometimes there needs to be a compromise to appeal to different people.

This new scrolling list lacks design . It's a step backwards.

[speechles 1917]

1 hour ago, Ollio said:

What I want is to be able to read a description, not a nice looking list that serves no purpose - and now you want to make it smaller.... Might just as well get rid of all graphics and descriptions.

Indeed. You can have both. There should be a way to have both. A nice looking list that serves a defined purpose and larger text with larger images. The trade off here is larger means less can exist on the screen. The Roku has a finite amount of room to build an application inside of. You get 4MB in zip form and 25MB in extracted form (including runtime execution space). So your code and the runtime environment must all fit together like old school BASiC in the 80's. Because of this we have to work harder on Roku to provide a stunning experience. You will see the fruits of the efforts soon.

[Ollio 0]

17 hours ago, cayars said:

Keep in mind this was overwhelmingly requested by users. There is a dislike of horizontal scrolling in general in all the apps so we try to accomodate what is being asked for by the users as a whole.

The other things is that you're using a 10 foot interface on a small TV so it's likely going to look tiny at a distance.  Many people these days use multiple monitor larger than 27" attached to a computer sitting a foot to foot and a half from them.

With that said you have the 3 key devs (speechles, ebr, Luke) in this thread corresponding with you to try and learn from you and improve the UI because they CARE a great deal about the clients and want it to be highly functional for large and small monitors alike.

It's quite possible for example to keep the vertical scrolling but adjust spacing or size of elements on the screen to make them easier to see and read. This is what they are trying to find out from you what could be done to help.

 

And I'm guaranteeing that the majority of users do not come online to voice their opinion so who are you hearing from, the 30 yr olds that walk around wearing headphones all day while staring at their cell phones. Sure, this crowd knows where's it's at. Now you have no choice but to vertically scroll cast members, up next, continue watching etc. Even the main page scrolls horizontally.

 

Talking about TV size and how it looks different is proof you don't have a clue. I normally sit about 5ft from the TV but needed to move within arms distance to read that - and that means the ratio of the font size stinks.

 

Get yourself a new job.

[skidmarks 188]

Correct me if i am wrong...  (i'm having one of those days)

With the horizontal scroll wasn't it impossible to actually see the entire episode name without selecting it?  There was a limitation to the amount of characters that could be displayed?  Making it a horrible view if you wanted more information immediately.  

I have seasons with 100+ episodes and find the vertical scroll to be much more informative.  I wasn't a vertical scroll fan on android originally! 

The OP most likly has a valid point on the difficulty of how this is displayed on smaller TV's.  If a description / episode summery is not important, maybe there is some programmers secret code that could turn off the description (as an option) and greatly increase the font to just display the episode number / name?

[Ollio 0]

2 hours ago, speechles said:

Indeed. You can have both. There should be a way to have both. A nice looking list that serves a defined purpose and larger text with larger images. The trade off here is larger means less can exist on the screen. The Roku has a finite amount of room to build an application inside of. You get 4MB in zip form and 25MB in extracted form (including runtime execution space). So your code and the runtime environment must all fit together like old school BASiC in the 80's. Because of this we have to work harder on Roku to provide a stunning experience. You will see the fruits of the efforts soon.

The whole purpose is to be able to read 1 detail listing at a time. To me it's exactly the same as SUGGESTION mode where you can just relax and read descriptions of a show.... more like an invitation to bring you in... not a shortcut to your files. And BTW, SUGGESTIONS also scroll horizontally. If less fits on a screen then the old horizontal scroll shrinks the backdrop pic to the right side and leaves space for nice big letters to read the description. And I use SUGGESTION mode as default because it's looks much nicer than using SHOWS. And I keep my favorites in the order I like by using DATE ADDED by using a date like 2090... the next one will be 2085 etc... After the 30 or so that fits in that mode I'll manually switch to SHOWS. The horizontal scroll was more consistent with the main page, Suggestions, cast and crew, up next, continue watching, more from season whatever etc. etc. This vertical is the abomination.

 

 

[Ollio 0]

 

2 hours ago, skidmarks said:

Correct me if i am wrong...  (i'm having one of those days)

With the horizontal scroll wasn't it impossible to actually see the entire episode name without selecting it?  There was a limitation to the amount of characters that could be displayed?  Making it a horrible view if you wanted more information immediately.  

I have seasons with 100+ episodes and find the vertical scroll to be much more informative.  I wasn't a vertical scroll fan on android originally! 

The OP most likly has a valid point on the difficulty of how this is displayed on smaller TV's.  If a description / episode summery is not important, maybe there is some programmers secret code that could turn off the description (as an option) and greatly increase the font to just display the episode number / name?

See it where, below the icon pic for the episode or the info window? you could read it from both.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Ollio

[Ollio 0]

2 hours ago, skidmarks said:

Correct me if i am wrong...  (i'm having one of those days)

With the horizontal scroll wasn't it impossible to actually see the entire episode name without selecting it?  There was a limitation to the amount of characters that could be displayed?  Making it a horrible view if you wanted more information immediately.  

I have seasons with 100+ episodes and find the vertical scroll to be much more informative.  I wasn't a vertical scroll fan on android originally! 

The OP most likly has a valid point on the difficulty of how this is displayed on smaller TV's.  If a description / episode summery is not important, maybe there is some programmers secret code that could turn off the description (as an option) and greatly increase the font to just display the episode number / name?

So a vertical is more informative? That really makes no sense at all. Zilch, nothing. and there is no difficulty displaying anything on a smaller TV. The difficulty is reading it, from any TV, without getting closer than what's normal.

 

Since I like the horizontal better, I'm going to start calling it more informative.

[Carlo 4330]

2 hours ago, Ollio said:

And I'm guaranteeing that the majority of users do not come online to voice their opinion so who are you hearing from, the 30 yr olds that walk around wearing headphones all day while staring at their cell phones. Sure, this crowd knows where's it's at. Now you have no choice but to vertically scroll cast members, up next, continue watching etc. Even the main page scrolls horizontally.

Talking about TV size and how it looks different is proof you don't have a clue. I normally sit about 5ft from the TV but needed to move within arms distance to read that - and that means the ratio of the font size stinks.

Get yourself a new job.

I'm sorry but you can't guarantee anything with only 27 posts to your name.  You have not taken part in the different client upgrades over the YEARS and been part of the feedback of what people have asked for over the years. The different client software is the way it is because our customers have asked for it to be that way. There is HISTORY and a LOT OF IT as why certain things are the way they are.

I have no clue what you're talking about as proof of TV size but with the exact same 1080 UI scaling you simply can't expect to see and read a 27" at 10 foot like you can a 75" TV set. Everything is proportional but much smaller and of course you won't be able to read the text at such a distance.

We have been through this dozens of times with different clients. If you're used some of our other clients you would see they allow for different size (small, medium, large) and different modes of operation depending on how you use that UI and the distance you are from it.

Let me ask you this.  Should it be important for there to be a common user interface regardless if you are using a tablet, computer, theater, web browser, android, apple tv, android tv, LG, Samsung or Roku or should each device go it's own way and be confusing to people who use multiple devices and apps?

Have you used any other Emby client besides a Roku?  Have you participated in any Emby client BETAs with many other people making their wishes and constructive criticisms known?

The DEVS very much listen to our customers which is why 3 of the key devs for Roku and it's design are in this thread trying to ask you questions to see what can be improved (if not already) for the next iteration of the Roku client.

The lead Roku developer said this in post two "There is much better coming.. I just do not want to let the cat out of the bag. I must remain.. speechless". He has also hinted at other possible things while trying to probe you for GENERAL input but not specifics since the client will be different already with many improvements.

There are many good things on the horizon for the Roku client but a bit of patience is needed.

[Carlo 4330]

8 minutes ago, Ollio said:

So a vertical is more informative? That really makes no sense at all. Zilch, nothing. and there is no difficulty displaying anything on a smaller TV. The difficulty is reading it, from any TV, without getting closer than what's normal.

 

Since I like the horizontal better, I'm going to start calling it more informative.

This is where it's nice to have a couple different versions of Emby clients on different OS/devices so you would have a better understanding of this first and could have tried things head to head.  Many of our users do this and tell us what they like best about each client and we try to integrate the "likes" into all of them and remove the "dislikes" whenever possible.

[speechles 1917]

The problem is it is to be consistent it has to have that vertical expanded detail view. The other apps use this same view. The Roku is now using this same view. If the problem is endemic of that "Expanded Details" view then all the clients should likely listen to this thread. Take notes and prepare to do better as well.

There is no "lead" Roku developer. There are just developers. It isn't at all what you think. This is very open to interpretation. But think of it like a big room where you put ideas up. All your ideas. Everything you ever wished you could have. Now which of those apply to each client and how hard is it to get them all there? Make your ideas become real. Do they hold value? Can they be realized into each client? How hard is it to get there? Will it be years or months? Can you give timelines?

Now you see the entire picture. You cannot give timelines on anything. There is not enough time to breathe.

You must keep in mind that everyone matters and post count is irrelevant. Some of the most vocal users are not vocal on this forum but are elsewhere. Not everyone is expected to make an account here and give us feedback. Those who choose to do this are going out of their way. Making an effort to join the community. Giving us information to help us. I agree this is great. Thank you very much.

Please continue the constructive feedback and any harsh comments or hate aren't really going to motivate us to do better. We love Emby as much as you do. We love it more because we want it better every single day. Just like you.

But the reality comes in that we are all part of the same planet. We cannot make endless options. The Roku will choke and users will easily become confused and we will chase so much time troubleshooting those endless options that the app cannot get better. We need times where the application is stable. Doing just fine. A lull if you will. During those times we can move forward on things rather than fix everything that is broken.

Please be patient with us as we migrate into the future a bit. We are trying out damnest. Seriously. It isn't us just taking things and putting them there to frustrate users. It is a learning experience and you learn from mistakes the best. You learn from success little because you already lucked into it or knew it. With failure you must truly learn from it and become better or drop the bar so low you hit the ground.

The bar is high here. We expect it to be high. But please do not think we are above you in any way. We are simply users who also have access to the source code. We are on your side. Remember that. We are not your enemy. You shouting in our face is how we learn. Please continue.

Let us know where we really need to do better and we will. This is how we operate.

Edited April 21, 2021 by speechles

[Ollio 0]

56 minutes ago, cayars said:

This is where it's nice to have a couple different versions of Emby clients on different OS/devices so you would have a better understanding of this first and could have tried things head to head.  Many of our users do this and tell us what they like best about each client and we try to integrate the "likes" into all of them and remove the "dislikes" whenever possible.

 

 

Useless banter. Try this on someone else.

[Ollio 0]

1 hour ago, cayars said:

This is where it's nice to have a couple different versions of Emby clients on different OS/devices so you would have a better understanding of this first and could have tried things head to head.  Many of our users do this and tell us what they like best about each client and we try to integrate the "likes" into all of them and remove the "dislikes" whenever possible.

Unbelievable stupidity..... which still has nothing to do with the claim of vertical being more informative - and it's sounding like a coverup. It's you that's needs an understanding, not me.

[Ollio 0]

1 hour ago, speechles said:

The problem is it is to be consistent it has to have that vertical expanded detail view.

Pure crock. Then the main screen and everything else needs to change. Change cell phone apps instead. I'm out for myself and could care lees about Emby or any software brand.

[Ollio 0]

1 hour ago, speechles said:

Please continue the constructive feedback and any harsh comments or hate aren't really going to motivate us to do better. We love Emby as much as you do. We love it more because we want it better every single day. Just like you.

On the same token mindless BS won't sway me one bit.

[Carlo 4330]

If you would try a different client be it the browser or Theater for computer or any other TV style client you may see why it's more informative and what will be added to Roku.  Even if you can only see 3 episodes at a time that's 3 times more episodes you can read at one time vs one episode viewing at a time in horizontal mode. Some of the other clients do things slightly differently which is why I encourage you to try them so you get an idea how the Roku may soon work.

As an example in Android ATV I can go into a show and DO HAVE a horizontal row of NEXT UP episode plus season views that shows me 5 episodes at a time and it's extremely quick to navigate.  I can get to any episode of any show in less than half the time I can with the horizontal Roku view. It's quick and easy to read.

1 minute ago, Ollio said:

Pure crock. Then the main screen and everything else needs to change. Change cell phone apps instead. I'm out for myself and could care lees about Emby or any software brand.

Yes and it's going to as there are many things coming to Roku shortly as has been said. You of course can be out for #1 (yourself) but unfortunately we can't be like that and have to put out features and UIs that appeal to the masses and not certain individuals. We listen to all and try and make changes based on legit and constructive feedback and this forum is proof of that as there are years of history of this taking place in the client beta areas.

Here is the section for Roku if you'd like to take part.
https://emby.media/community/index.php?/forum/165-roku/

[Ollio 0]

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Jump off the cliff by yourself. You're hooked on horizontal vs Vertical while I want it to look good, and be readable, but you continue to stay off topic by pretending you're smart. I know better. I can't stand this new scroll and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't care if you listen to everyone, Rap music stinks, period.

 

I have browsed through my phone and the web and you're 100% wrong. And just to remind you to back up your nonsense - informative has nothing to do with vertical vs horizontal. This is just another coverup. And I never mentioned speed and could care less - try staying on topic for a change.

 

And you're still fired.

 

"It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to speak and remove all  doubt"

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Ollio

[pwhodges 1530]

I prefer the vertical scrolling view.  I don't see any difference in legibility - I'm not conscious that the type size is different from what was used before.  At any rate, it is perfectly legible (to my 75yo eyes) at 12 ft from a 40" screen, which is pretty much what I would expect.

It seems we have different likes in this.  This always happens.  Sometimes varied options are appropriate to resolve differences - but remember, supporting two options takes twice as much effort, and maybe twice as much time, and so slows down overall development.  There is also the issue, mentioned from time to time, that the Roku app has a strictly limited space to work in, because of Roku's restrictions (or limitations), so more options in one area inevitably means less in another.

Paul