Mark burned-in subs

[crusher11 856]

I have the Millennium Trilogy Blu-rays, which are in Swedish with burned-in English subtitles.

The only options I have in Emby are to falsely mark the dialogue as English, falsely list the film as having no subtitles, or create a blank SRT file and falsely give the impression subtitles can be disabled.

There is no option to have a non-selectable indication that there are English subtitles, at least as far as I'm aware?

[ebr 14944]

Hi.  You could modify the name of the movie...?

[crusher11 856]

That's not a solution, just another clumsy workaround. 

[Luke 37150]

You can also use tags which would allow filtering based on that.

[Guest]

I stay away from all content with burned in subtitles for so many reasons.. I do like original soundtrack in native language and SRT files.. burned-in video subtitles wind up destroying original viewing quality.. and there is no way to detect them..

If you have the disks.. I would rip them without the subs.. then probably find subs online for them in English format... OR find another video file without the burned in.. 

This issue you are talking about is the same for all players and servers I have seen.. Unless you put some crazy long name into the original source files inside the container. ( I hate that too when it goes beyond the basic need )

[roaku 797]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

You can also use tags which would allow filtering based on that.

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but if you tag these movies, you could then use Iconic to show an icon on the movie cover when the tag is present.

@crusher11
 

[crusher11 856]

6 hours ago, Luke said:

You can also use tags which would allow filtering based on that.

I don't want to filter. I just want to display accurate information to users who aren't familiar with the films. 

[Happy2Play 8321]

Only you the admin can do something about media that has burned in subs as there is no way to automate something to know they are there as it is just a video track.

So separate library/tags/naming/modify metadata.  All manual work.

[crusher11 856]

I'm not talking about tagging, I'm talking about displaying.

 

[Guest]

What he is explaining to you is that unless you do some sort of tagging, metadata notation, naming of internal video track.. 

There is no way the system can display this information because it is basically a part of the video IMAGE... So it does not work like all of the other options for subtitle, including hard-coded subtitles... embedded or external it would take manual human input to mark the file. Every other aspect of subtitles work in the server but this type will not work in conjunction with the servers features, or any other program out there. Even PGS subtitle files embedded in the video container, work.. They are image based but they are in a separate file.. and they are named. Embedded files can be seen that way... 

There is no OCR type extraction for type with the video stream from the container.. nor would be separate for title or indicator that it even exists.

If these files have Swedish Language and English Subtitles burned-in then why not just play it as it is and not worry about it? I get lost on the main post because of the way you describe it.. But technically for this type of file there are options and it is.. as is, anyway.

Other videos using other language audio tracks will be selectable, even multi-version movies.. AND the subtitles will be displayed and selectable if they actually exist.

The display of metadata, video, Subtitle rendering, and audio are four separate elements within a video file container.. Three of them are used in rendering your entertainment experience. One of them shows you the information concerning the data in the file or description of the data ( not an indicator necessarily of the data inside the container )

If video and subtitles are one file, and audio is another then only the two items will show up in the details as part of the file properties...

Example pf a video which has these properties... and what it looks like... 

 

          Windows Explorer with two versions of the file shown. H264 version requires SRT.

This version ( H265 ) has multiple audio tracks and an Embedded Subtitle file as shown below in the Media Info.. It begins by showing you the embedded metadata I have put into the file... Notice the TEXT ( VOBSOB - Picture-based [of text] subs ) area.. Each file is in a container ( MKV here ), a video track ( HEVC ), audio tracks ( AC-3 )

Metadata
Complete name               : Rise of the Legend (黃飛鴻之英雄有夢) 2014 1080p\Rise of the Legend (黃飛鴻之英雄有夢) 2014 1080p - H265.mkv
Format                      : Matroska
Format version              : Version 4
File size                   : 6.52 GiB
Duration                    : 2 h 11 min
Overall bit rate            : 7 095 kb/s
Movie name                  : 黃飛鴻之英雄有夢 / 黃飛鴻之英雄有夢
ContentType                 : Movie
Description                 : An orphan, whose father has been killed by dark power, attempts to bring justice back to the town.
Released date               : 2014-11-20
Writing application         : mkvmerge v40.0.0 ('Old Town Road + Pony') 64-bit
Writing library             : libebml v1.3.9 + libmatroska v1.5.2
Cover                       : Yes
Attachments                 : cover.jpg / kodi-metadata
ACTOR                       : Eddie Peng, AngelaBaby, Sammo Hung, Tony Leung Ka-Fai, Jing Boran, Wong Cho-lam, Zhang Jin, Feng Jia-Yi, Wang Luodan, Qin Junjie, Byron Mann, Gao Taiyu, Julius Brian Siswojo, Phat Chan Fei, Jiang Zhong-Wei, Luo Bei An, Chen Zhi-Hui, Kuang-Yao Fan, Mi...
ARTIST                      : Shigeru Umebayashi, Peter Kam
DATE_RECORDED               : 2014-11-20
DIRECTOR                    : Roy Hin-Yeung Chow
GENRE                       : Action, Drama
PRODUCER                    : Sammo Hung, Ivy Ho, Lau Yee-Tung, William Kong, Er-dong Liu
PRODUCTION_STUDIO           : Irresistible Films
SCREENPLAY_BY               : Chi-long To
SORT_WITH                   : 黃飛鴻之英雄有夢
SUMMARY                     : An orphan, whose father has been killed by dark power, attempts to bring justice back to the town.
SYNOPSIS                    : In 1868 during the late Qing Dynasty, rampant corruption on the Imperial Court inflicts much suffering in people's lives. For years, the Black Tiger’s fearsome boss Lei Gong has been trying to get rid of the leader of the Northern Sea. One of his latest recruits is Fei, a fearless fighter who takes the Northern Sea leader’s head after a fierce fight. Just as Lei Gong believes he has total control of the port, a new gang called the Orphans rises in power. Led by Fei’s childhood friend Huo, the Orphans are out to eliminate all the criminal power from the port…
WRITTEN_BY                  : Chi-long To

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : HEVC
Format/Info                 : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile              : Main 10@L4@Main
Codec ID                    : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                    : 2 h 11 min
Bit rate                    : 6 000 kb/s
Width                       : 1 920 pixels
Height                      : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 24.000 FPS
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.163
Stream size                 : 5.51 GiB (85%)
Writing library             : x265 3.2+20-a4e060a44839:[Windows][GCC 6.3.0][64 bit] 10bit

Default                     : Yes
Forced                      : No
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                          : 2
Format                      : AC-3
Format/Info                 : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name             : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                    : A_AC3
Duration                    : 2 h 11 min
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 640 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 6 channels
Channel layout              : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode            : Lossy
Stream size                 : 602 MiB (9%)
Language                    : Chinese
Service kind                : Complete Main
Default                     : No
Forced                      : No

Audio #2
ID                          : 3
Format                      : AC-3
Format/Info                 : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name             : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                    : A_AC3
Duration                    : 2 h 11 min
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 6 channels
Channel layout              : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode            : Lossy
Stream size                 : 421 MiB (6%)
Language                    : English
Service kind                : Complete Main
Default                     : No
Forced                      : No

Text
ID                          : 4
Format                      : VobSub
Muxing mode                 : zlib
Codec ID                    : S_VOBSUB
Codec ID/Info               : Picture based subtitle format used on DVDs
Duration                    : 2 h 6 min
Bit rate                    : 6 761 b/s
Count of elements           : 1218
Stream size                 : 6.13 MiB (0%)
Language                    : English
Default                     : No
Forced                      : No

 

This one does not:

Complete name               : Fukushima 50 2020 1080p\Fukushima 50 2020 1080p.mkv
Format                      : Matroska
Format version              : Version 4
File size                   : 4.97 GiB
Duration                    : 2 h 0 min
Overall bit rate            : 5 883 kb/s
Movie name                  : Fukushima 50 / Fukushima 50
ContentType                 : Movie
Description                 : In the darkest hours, courage prevails
Released date               : 2020-03-06
Writing application         : mkvmerge v53.0.0 ('Fool's Gold') 64-bit
Writing library             : libebml v1.4.1 + libmatroska v1.6.2 / Lavf58.29.100
Cover                       : Yes
Attachments                 : cover.jpg / kodi-metadata
ACTOR                       : Ken Watanabe, Koichi Sato, Hidetaka Yoshioka, Narumi Yasuda, Naoto Ogata, Shôhei Hino, Mitsuru Hirata, Masato Hagiwara, Keisuke Horibe, Hisahiro Ogura, Masato Wada, Masanori ishii, Masaki Miura, Arata Horii, Yûta Kanai, Shuichiro Masuda, Kunihiro Sud...
ARTIST                      : Ken Watanabe, Koichi Sato, Hidetaka Yoshioka, Narumi Yasuda, Naoto Ogata, Shôhei Hino, Mitsuru Hirata, Masato Hagiwara, Keisuke Horibe, Hisahiro Ogura, Masato Wada, Masanori ishii, Masaki Miura, Arata Horii, Yûta Kanai, Shuichiro Masuda, Kunihiro Sud...
DATE_RECORDED               : 2020-03-06
DIRECTOR                    : Setsurô Wakamatsu
GENRE                       : Drama, History
PRODUCTION_STUDIO           : Kadokawa Pictures
SCREENPLAY_BY               : Yoichi Maekawa
SORT_WITH                   : Fukushima 50
SUMMARY                     : In the darkest hours, courage prevails
SYNOPSIS                    : Workers at the Fukushima Daiichi facility in Japan risk their lives and stay at the nuclear power plant to prevent total destruction after the region is devastated by an earthquake and tsunami in 2011.
WRITTEN_BY                  : Yoichi Maekawa

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : AVC
Format/Info                 : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile              : Main@L4.1
Format settings             : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC      : Yes
Format settings, Reference  : 4 frames
Codec ID                    : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                    : 2 h 0 min
Bit rate                    : 5 000 kb/s
Width                       : 1 920 pixels
Height                      : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 24.000 FPS
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 8 bits
Scan type                   : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.136
Stream size                 : 4.21 GiB (85%)
Writing library             : x264 core 157 r2935 545de2f
Default                     : Yes
Forced                      : No
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                          : 2
Format                      : AC-3
Format/Info                 : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name             : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                    : A_AC3
Duration                    : 2 h 0 min
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 6 channels
Channel layout              : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode            : Lossy
Delay relative to video     : -5 ms
Stream size                 : 388 MiB (8%)
Title                       : DTS
Language                    : 
Service kind                : Complete Main
Default                     : Yes
Forced                      : No

Audio #2
ID                          : 3
Format                      : AC-3
Format/Info                 : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name             : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                    : A_AC3
Duration                    : 2 h 0 min
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 6 channels
Channel layout              : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode            : Lossy
Delay relative to video     : -5 ms
Stream size                 : 388 MiB (8%)
Title                       : DTS
Language                    : Japanese
Service kind                : Complete Main
Default                     : No
Forced                      : No

 

Therefore there is no way to support doing this. Today's accepted way of creating a video file and addressing subtitles is actually far from burning them in. With the options that are current the options work. The old way there isn't much that can be done.

Hope this explains it.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Guest

[crusher11 856]

ITT: Nobody is listening to me. 

I want the subtitle track information to correctly show that there are English subtitles, without having the option to disable them. 

Yes, I would have to indicate this to Emby somehow. But tagging the movies currently won't achieve what I want anyway because Emby won't do anything with that tag. 

[Guest]

So why don't you change the title to show Name of the Movie: English Subtitles

43 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

I want the subtitle track information to correctly show that there are English subtitles, without having the option to disable them. 

I want the subtitle track information ( WHICH DOES NOT EXIST ) to correctly show ( WHICH CANNOT BE DONE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST ) that there ARE ( WHEN THERE ARE NOT )English subtitles ( WHICH ARE NOT PRESENT EXCEPT WITHIN THE PER/FRAME IMAGES THAT MAKE UP THE VIDEO TRACK ), without having the option ( WHICH STILL DOESN'T EXIST ) to disable them ( WHICH CAN'T BE DONE WITH BURNED-IN SUBS - LIKE AT ALL [and subtitles are universally available should they exist for each user and are saved as settings per video], BTW )

Should make sense; as to why, after the hour long post I wrote above. That it is not currently possible for you to do the normal methods which are supported to do those things. You may add the name like I mentioned, ( In EMBY's 'EDIT METADATA' option in the context menu ) or use the options - you mentioned in your first post.

OR, You are talking about a completely DIFFERENT situation which we need file data and screenshots of the movie and files in question ( as I have done above in that post ) beforehand in order to help you.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Guest
EDITED for clarification..

[Happy2Play 8321]

2 hours ago, crusher11 said:

I want the subtitle track information to correctly show that there are English subtitles, without having the option to disable them. 

This is impossible without you providing something as burnt in subtitle means absolutely nothing as there is a video file ie no subtitles.

So with every media server in the world there is zero chance of knowing said video track has burnt in subtitles.  Only you can say it does.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Happy2Play

[crusher11 856]

Yes. But Emby cannot currently do anything with that information even if I provide it. That's my point. 

[Happy2Play 8321]

What do you truly expect?  Burnt in subs are unidentifiable.  Only you can attempt to provide additional info to the media.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Happy2Play

[crusher11 856]

FFS.

Yes, I know, I would have to inform Emby that those subs exist.

But Emby currently can't do anything with that information.

 

[tmb4016 86]

If you are happy with the idea of manually tagging the movies to provide the 'identifiable' bit  then the plugin @roaku referred to - Iconic - will display an icon indicator on the poster image for the movie.

You can use the plugin with a TAG rule that will then display an icon over the poster image as an overlay.

I've used this plugin not just for tag rules but filename and filestream rules and found it to be excellent with lots of great configuration options on the 'look' of the icon enhancement. It will run in Trial mode I think still so it is worth a go as it is easy to set up. Below is a simple example of a Tag rule which I use to show item has complete metadata (bottom left) as an example - As you can see it works in conjunction with Coverart as that is still providing the subtitle image on the bottom right for those items without burned in sub-titles.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by tmb4016
Added image

[ebr 14944]

39 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

But Emby currently can't do anything with that information.

We've given you two or three different ways it could be displayed.  What are you expecting Emby to "do" with this information?

[crusher11 856]

At the moment, like I said, I have a blank SRT file so it shows up as having English subs. But, because it's an SRT file, you can select "Off", even though that doesn't do anything.

I'd like Emby to support marking a file as having burned-in subs, so that instead of "English (SRT)" in a dropdown with an "Off" option, it would say "English (Burned-In)" or similar, with no dropdown. Much as the Audio says "Swedish DTS-HD MA 5.1", and has no dropdown because there is no alternative.

[ebr 14944]

Realistically, I don't think that is likely but, as this is the FR forum, we will see what kind of support it gets.

In the meantime, we've given you a couple of options to show this fact to your users but the first thing I would do is get rid of that dummy SRT file because that is just confusing things further.  I still think a simple notation in the name would be the easiest and most obvious.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo [subtitled]

[Spaceboy 2500]

obviously if you obtained your media legally this wouldnt be an issue... 

[rbjtech 4301]

A compromise is to add the blank SRT file as a .forced.en.srt file - that way, users are always going to see it has forced english subs when they browse this option.

If they choose to turn turn them off, then of course they can do this and subs will still show, but at least they have been provided with the correct information on the film - it has forced subs - which is the purpose of your post I believe ?

 

[ebr 14944]

38 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

A compromise is to add the blank SRT file as a .forced.en.srt file - that way, users are always going to see it has forced english subs when they browse this option.

If they choose to turn turn them off, then of course they can do this and subs will still show, but at least they have been provided with the correct information on the film - it has forced subs - which is the purpose of your post I believe ?

 

I just think that is not a good idea and only will lead to user confusion.  The absolute simplest solution is editing the title.

[speechles 1920]

Create a blank SRT and insert it into the video and set it default and name it [VIDEO HAS SUBTITLES BURNED IN].srt and put that inside the MKV with MKVToolNixGUI. Now it will always choose the correct subtitle, the broken SRT with the correct name and display that. But it will still list OFF. But OFF will have no effect because you can tell the video has subtitles burned in.

Edited April 19, 2021 by speechles

[ebr 14944]

2 minutes ago, speechles said:

But OFF will have no effect because you can tell the video has subtitles burned in.

That assumes a user knows what "burned in" means.

I'll say it one more time.  All of these "fake" subtitle file options are not a good idea.