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Music - Tag original release date (tag:origyear and/or tag:originalyear)


letterman
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letterman

As far as I know, emby "only" uses the tag-field "year".

My suggestion is integrate the "Original release date" (maybe in brackets behind the date). lots of albums are remastered and I always get confused, though emby does not show the original date.

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HI, we do actually read this from embedded audio tags, it's just not something we typically display for albums.

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Currently nothing as our user interfaces are only showing the year for albums, but options for this are possible for the future. thanks.

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ginjaninja

as an aside,  i set my tagger to copy 'originalyear' tag to the standard year tag, so albums show in more meaningful order. (by original year).

 

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FrostByte
9 hours ago, ginjaninja said:

as an aside,  i set my tagger to copy 'originalyear' tag to the standard year tag, so albums show in more meaningful order. (by original year).

 

I do this also

Agree with OP though that it would be nicer if Emby could use the Original date that way I could have the media release date and original release date in the tags.  Without manipulating though it looks like a lot of my older music is a lot newer than it really is.

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  • 2 months later...
MIGEON
On 2/2/2021 at 9:29 AM, Luke said:

Currently nothing as our user interfaces are only showing the year for albums, but options for this are possible for the future. thanks.

In Emby, you have a field called 'Release Date'. Is it bounded to a Tag ?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/2/2021 at 3:26 PM, MIGEON said:

In Emby, you have a field called 'Release Date'. Is it bounded to a Tag ?

Yes, there's a few we're checking for that, retaildate, retail_date and date

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  • 1 month later...
marktaff

I'm having this issue as well. All my music is tagged with musicbrainz. My copy of Led Zeppelin IV is from 1987, but the original was from 1971.  For all purposes, I think, and certainly for labeling in the UI, searching, sorting, and filtering, I'd much prefer to use "Original Year' or 'Original Release Date' (ORIGINALYEARand ORIGINALDATE in flac).

I don't like the hack of changing the Date tag from the correct year of my release to reflect the original release date. While you guys are figuring this out, can we hack around this with NFO files?  Perhaps a minimal NFO file in each album folder with just the year to get emby use the original year? I could write a script to create those files fairly easily.  I would rather 'trick' emby than to change my factually-correct metadata.

Thanks. 🙂

Edit: It turns out the  'Original Date/Year' tags from MusicBrainz are wildly inaccurate as well.  I even wrote a script to screen scrape the 'First release year' from the MusicBrainz Recording ID detail webpage.  Those are better, but still very inaccurate.  I'm going to have to google and then set all the 'Original Year' tags manually.  Regular albums won't be bad, but compilations are going to be a lot of work.  Still, I'd like to be able to use the 'Original Year' field in Emby as mentioned above.

Edited by marktaff
More info on the weakness of MB tags
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Currently it checks for the retaildate tag, and if that is empty it checks the date tag.

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Tremas
On 6/21/2021 at 12:15 PM, Luke said:

Currently it checks for the retaildate tag, and if that is empty it checks the date tag.

Perhaps a good solution would be changing this to check retaildate and then if empty use "Original Year' and only if that is empty default to "date."

I agree that this is an annoyance, especially when MusicBrainz sets the date and original date correctly but Emby only uses "date" for sorting.

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marktaff

I can provide sample tracks for testing, both for studio albums and compilations, flac or mp3. None of my songs have retaildate tag; I don't even know what software would write that tag.  I'm still in the process of correcting all the incorrect original dates from musicbrainz.  All my studio albums are good, and about 2,200 of my 4,900 songs from compilations/soundtracks are researched, but I haven't updated those tags yet.  It'll take me another day or two to research the remaining 2,700 tracks, the write a script to update the tags.  I can manually fix the tags on a compilation file for you though.  Just let me know exactly what you want for a sample track(s).

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Vicpa

Hi All,

@Luke I concur with @marktaff none of my music tracks have a retaildate tag. Musicbrainz use "date", "original date" and "original year".  

Both date and original date may only show a year however.

I have PM'd you a couple of flac tracks to add to what marktaff sends you.

 

-vicpa

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FrostByte

Isn't it YEAR and ORIGYEAR though?  I believe that's what mp3tag is using.

bella.thumb.jpg.083e022cdf95e56bd81223b8187e13f9.jpg

 

Edited by FrostByte
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Vicpa

Hi @FrostByte

I am not sure what mp3tag uses. I use picard.

this is the output of ffprobe for a random track
{
Input #0, flac, from 'file:D:\xxxxxxx\Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles\Heart Songs\13 Turning Home (Live).flac':
  Metadata:
    MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASEGROUPID: 509f9eb7-84b4-4c57-a8d6-173414de28bb
    ORIGINALDATE    : 2019-01-11
    ORIGINALYEAR    : 2019
    RELEASETYPE     : album
    MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMID: 18fc3822-1bce-4830-8d69-f278f84e37e1
    LABEL           : CGP Sounds
    CATALOGNUMBER   : CGP0071
    RELEASESTATUS   : official
    ALBUM           : Heart Songs
    MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID: 50c629c6-6f22-4bf9-a3c2-f2855e6704be;f4004a34-4078-439e-a01a-c95f7ed587d1
    album_artist    : Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles
    ALBUMARTISTSORT : Emmanuel, Tommy & Knowles, John
    DATE            : 2019-01-11
    SCRIPT          : Latn
    ASIN            : B07JR2GNYN
    RELEASECOUNTRY  : XW
    TOTALDISCS      : 1
    disc            : 1
    TOTALTRACKS     : 14
    MEDIA           : Digital Media
    MUSICBRAINZ_TRACKID: 03112ce7-ed3a-4077-adc8-c7e46468c1e8
    TITLE           : Turning Home (Live)
    MUSICBRAINZ_ARTISTID: 50c629c6-6f22-4bf9-a3c2-f2855e6704be;f4004a34-4078-439e-a01a-c95f7ed587d1
    ARTIST          : Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles
    ARTISTSORT      : Emmanuel, Tommy & Knowles, John
    ARTISTS         : Tommy Emmanuel;John Knowles
    MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASETRACKID: 61a18736-5822-41a4-9b3d-9c570517ee6a
    track           : 13
    GENRE           : Folk;Jazz
    TRACKTOTAL      : 14
    DISCTOTAL       : 1
  Duration: 00:02:22.60, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 691 kb/s
    Stream #0:0: Audio: flac, 44100 Hz, stereo, s16
    Stream #0:1: Video: mjpeg, yuvj420p(pc, bt470bg/unknown/unknown), 500x500 [SAR 1:1 DAR 1:1], 90k tbr, 90k tbn, 90k tbc
    Metadata:
      comment         : Cover (front)
    "streams": [
        {
            "index": 0,
            "codec_name": "flac",
            "codec_long_name": "FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec)",
            "codec_type": "audio",
            "codec_time_base": "1/44100",
            "codec_tag_string": "[0][0][0][0]",
            "codec_tag": "0x0000",
            "sample_fmt": "s16",
            "sample_rate": "44100",
            "channels": 2,
            "channel_layout": "stereo",
            "bits_per_sample": 0,
            "r_frame_rate": "0/0",
            "avg_frame_rate": "0/0",
            "time_base": "1/44100",
            "start_pts": 0,
            "start_time": "0.000000",
            "duration_ts": 6288660,
            "duration": "142.600000",
            "bits_per_raw_sample": "16",
            "disposition": {
                "default": 0,
                "dub": 0,
                "original": 0,
                "comment": 0,
                "lyrics": 0,
                "karaoke": 0,
                "forced": 0,
                "hearing_impaired": 0,
                "visual_impaired": 0,
                "clean_effects": 0,
                "attached_pic": 0,
                "timed_thumbnails": 0
            }
        },
        {
            "index": 1,
            "codec_name": "mjpeg",
            "codec_long_name": "Motion JPEG",
            "profile": "192",
            "codec_type": "video",
            "codec_time_base": "0/1",
            "codec_tag_string": "[0][0][0][0]",
            "codec_tag": "0x0000",
            "width": 500,
            "height": 500,
            "coded_width": 500,
            "coded_height": 500,
            "has_b_frames": 0,
            "sample_aspect_ratio": "1:1",
            "display_aspect_ratio": "1:1",
            "pix_fmt": "yuvj420p",
            "level": -99,
            "color_range": "pc",
            "color_space": "bt470bg",
            "chroma_location": "center",
            "refs": 1,
            "r_frame_rate": "90000/1",
            "avg_frame_rate": "0/0",
            "time_base": "1/90000",
            "start_pts": 0,
            "start_time": "0.000000",
            "duration_ts": 12834000,
            "duration": "142.600000",
            "bits_per_raw_sample": "8",
            "disposition": {
                "default": 0,
                "dub": 0,
                "original": 0,
                "comment": 0,
                "lyrics": 0,
                "karaoke": 0,
                "forced": 0,
                "hearing_impaired": 0,
                "visual_impaired": 0,
                "clean_effects": 0,
                "attached_pic": 1,
                "timed_thumbnails": 0
            },
            "tags": {
                "comment": "Cover (front)"
            }
        }
    ],
    "format": {
        "filename": "file:D:\\XXXXX\\Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles\\Heart Songs\\13 Turning Home (Live).flac",
        "nb_streams": 2,
        "nb_programs": 0,
        "format_name": "flac",
        "format_long_name": "raw FLAC",
        "start_time": "0.000000",
        "duration": "142.600000",
        "size": "12327167",
        "bit_rate": "691566",
        "probe_score": 100,
        "tags": {
            "MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASEGROUPID": "509f9eb7-84b4-4c57-a8d6-173414de28bb",
            "ORIGINALDATE": "2019-01-11",
            "ORIGINALYEAR": "2019",
            "RELEASETYPE": "album",
            "MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMID": "18fc3822-1bce-4830-8d69-f278f84e37e1",
            "LABEL": "CGP Sounds",
            "CATALOGNUMBER": "CGP0071",
            "RELEASESTATUS": "official",
            "ALBUM": "Heart Songs",
            "MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID": "50c629c6-6f22-4bf9-a3c2-f2855e6704be;f4004a34-4078-439e-a01a-c95f7ed587d1",
            "album_artist": "Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles",
            "ALBUMARTISTSORT": "Emmanuel, Tommy & Knowles, John",
            "DATE": "2019-01-11",
            "SCRIPT": "Latn",
            "ASIN": "B07JR2GNYN",
            "RELEASECOUNTRY": "XW",
            "TOTALDISCS": "1",
            "disc": "1",
            "TOTALTRACKS": "14",
            "MEDIA": "Digital Media",
            "MUSICBRAINZ_TRACKID": "03112ce7-ed3a-4077-adc8-c7e46468c1e8",
            "TITLE": "Turning Home (Live)",
            "MUSICBRAINZ_ARTISTID": "50c629c6-6f22-4bf9-a3c2-f2855e6704be;f4004a34-4078-439e-a01a-c95f7ed587d1",
            "ARTIST": "Tommy Emmanuel & John Knowles",
            "ARTISTSORT": "Emmanuel, Tommy & Knowles, John",
            "ARTISTS": "Tommy Emmanuel;John Knowles",
            "MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASETRACKID": "61a18736-5822-41a4-9b3d-9c570517ee6a",
            "track": "13",
            "GENRE": "Folk;Jazz",
            "TRACKTOTAL": "14",
            "DISCTOTAL": "1"
        }
    }
}

Maybe you can check and see if yours are different

 

-vicpa

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FrostByte

Maybe mbz uses both because the OP mentioned both ORIGYEAR and ORIGINALYEAR in the topic

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marktaff

I've PM'd some sample tracks to @Luke

Some clearer thought on how this should work, imo.

For studio albums, emby should prioritize originalyear or originaldate tags in both album and song contexts.

For compilation albums, such as a greatest hits album, using originalyear or originaldate tags in song context is certainly correct.  MusicBrainz almost always has the wrong info in this case, but I've fixed mine (or nearly so). Also, I'm willing to share my data file of compilation years (~4800 songs), if it would help anyone. I know emby doesn't use years in song context right now, but I would like emby to do so in the future. Maybe we can work with MusicBrainz to have them start using correct original years on compilation tracks.

Album context for compilation albums is trickier.  The tracks all have varied originalyear or originaldate tags. If we use the normal date tag from a track as the album year, that may be correct, or it may be the year the compilation album was first issued on cd, or the date it was re-mastered or re-issued. Maybe we use the normal date tag in this case, but allow overriding with an *nfo file in the album folder?

HTH.

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ginjaninja
9 hours ago, marktaff said:

For studio albums, emby should prioritize originalyear or originaldate tags in both album and song contexts.

For compilation albums, such as a greatest hits album, using originalyear or originaldate tags in song context is certainly correct.  MusicBrainz almost always has the wrong info in this case, but I've fixed mine (or nearly so). Also, I'm willing to share my data file of compilation years (~4800 songs), if it would help anyone. I know emby doesn't use years in song context right now, but I would like emby to do so in the future. Maybe we can work with MusicBrainz to have them start using correct original years on compilation tracks.

Album context for compilation albums is trickier.  The tracks all have varied originalyear or originaldate tags. If we use the normal date tag from a track as the album year, that may be correct, or it may be the year the compilation album was first issued on cd, or the date it was re-mastered or re-issued. Maybe we use the normal date tag in this case, but allow overriding with an *nfo file in the album folder?

I would make the case that compilation albums don't need to behave differently to your proposed "emby should prioritize originalyear or originaldate tags"

 

I have had a look through a few compilations albums (tagging from musicbrainz) and as far as i can tell

official compilations albums on musicbrainz are tagged similarly to studio albums

Compilation tracks  have the standard tag and the "original release" tag(s), (and all the tracks generally have the same compilations albums release year..not when the artist originally released the song)

And for simplicity (as well as reasonable outcome) i think the preference can be the same for official compilations and studio albums

ie prefer original release tag(s) if present (in some order of preference), fallback to standard tag.

 

If i had gone to the trouble of individually setting the original release year of songs on my own compilation (or assigned my own original release metadata to an official compilation on musicbrainz) based on when the artist originally released the song.... and every track is different..then whats emby to do?

Emby probably has to stick with "prefer original release tag if present, fallback to standard tag". (wether album years are based on the first track in album or last or whatever Emby does? i dont know).....

it probably cant make sense, when tracks on album differ in date (however thats prefered/calculated) for the album to have a date of something like "1990-2001" or some such (the full gamut of earliest and latest track)...the ui probably wouldnt handle it and sorting and searching and grouping wont work well...(without alot of work? not worth it?)

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yea I've just gone through this and I don't think it's a quick change because of the consequences that it will bring. When Emby creates an album in the database using data from the audio files, it uses the date and year that we have in our system for the audio track.

Just as ginjaninja alluded to, If I were to just change this behavior from one date to the other and call it a day, then the next time you add a new greatest hits album, the album year will end up reflecting the original release year of one of the tracks, and you'll end up having to clean that up manually.

So in reality, these are two different date values, and I think we need to keep both in the database so that the appropriate one can be chosen depending on the situation.

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But what I can do right away is start checking those fields if the others that we're already checking happen to be empty. That looks like it will help with some of these examples.

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Tremas

I completely agree with @Luke that w both values should be kept in the database so that the appropriate one can be chosen depending on the situation.

Tracks and albums get displayed and utilized in different ways throughout the system. For example, to build a playlist the user may navigate to the music "song view" and filter for a date range (usually followed by multi-select to add to a playlist). In this case, if the system filters by "date" and not "Original Year" for tracks then a some songs don't show up correctly.

This is mainly an issue when MusicBrainz correctly tags a re-issue album with both dates, but Emby doesn't utilize the information. When dealing with MusicBrainz, the re-issue often has additional bonus tracks, so to include those tracks you need to tag the album as the re-issue and not the original. So both dates likely get put in the Emby database, but when using filters or search results it is more helpful to have the "Original Year" displayed if available. This also plays into "InstantMix" and the 3rd party smart playlist plugins. These and any future "smart" functions will give the user much better results if they use "Original Year" at the song/track level (if available). Even Amazon music has this problem where it will include songs in auto-generated playlists that are pulled from greatest hits albums from the wrong decade.

For any albums where multiple "original year" tracks are present, I agree that the "release year" or "date" would need to be respected/displayed. Again, this would be when the album is displayed. However, utilization at the track level should be "original year" if possible. So if a compilation album carries the album date value ("release date" or "date"), but the individual tracks have different values for genre, artist (not album artist), original date, etc. all of those would be respected for Emby for "Song view."

Another possible enhancement would be to add an additional filter category for "original year" to the music views.

On 7/17/2021 at 12:37 AM, Luke said:

Yea I've just gone through this and I don't think it's a quick change because of the consequences that it will bring. When Emby creates an album in the database using data from the audio files, it uses the date and year that we have in our system for the audio track.

Just as ginjaninja alluded to, If I were to just change this behavior from one date to the other and call it a day, then the next time you add a new greatest hits album, the album year will end up reflecting the original release year of one of the tracks, and you'll end up having to clean that up manually.

So in reality, these are two different date values, and I think we need to keep both in the database so that the appropriate one can be chosen depending on the situation.

 

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On 7/17/2021 at 12:43 AM, Luke said:

But what I can do right away is start checking those fields if the others that we're already checking happen to be empty.

This will be in the next release of the server.

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  • 3 months later...
MichielGideon

I stumbled on this thread and basically wrote an article on tagging software and how Emby reads tags.. Sorry if this is too much, but it might help someone..

I like the minimalism of Emby a lot. Release Date (of album/remaster/concert/single/compilation..) and Year (for say original recording date/indication of the time in history of a song) is great for sorting, and would even be better if Release Date and Year could be a different value.

How Picard, MP3Tag and META use tags and how Emby reads them
 
Disclaimer: I could be wrong. Just sharing what I think I have seen.
I use tagging software on a MacBook and Emby Server on WD Ex2Ultra NAS.
I switched off all fetching in the 'test' library (except Image Extractor), so Emby reads the tags in the music files. 
 
In id3v2.4 several timestamps are available (in id3v2.3 this is a bit more complicated)
  • Release Time
  • Original Release Time
  • Recording Time
All of these are 'allowed' to contain a full date and time, in this 24 hour format: yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss 
(example: 2015-09-26T16:08:22) 
See here: 
id3v2.4 Tags (frames): https://id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames
id3v2 Formats (structure): https://id3.org/id3v2.4.0-structure
 
This is how 3 music taggers use them and how Emby reads them, as far as I can tell:
 
1 - Release Time
 
MP3Tag: releasetime, full date & time
Picard: does not use this, it uses its 'date' field (I think?) > see Recording Time
META: Release Time, full date & time
Written in (you donot notice this as end user)...
id3v2.3: does not seem to be used in id3v2.3 by MP3Tag, Picard or META (so if you remove your id3v2.4 tags, Release Time disappears)
id3v2.4: TDRL frame (TimeDateReLease.. I guess) - allowed as yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss
 
If Release Time is available as id3v2.4 tag, Emby uses this for Release Date AND for Year. At least that is what I observed so far.. 
 
For compilations it would be cool if Emby would use Release Time in their 'Release Date' as the release time of the album itself, like Greatest Christmas Songs, released in 2015-12-05. 
The cool feature then could be using Recording Time or if not available Original Release Time for 'Year'.
So Release Date will sort for the time this version of the album came on the market (Duran Duran - Rio [remastered], 2008).
But Year will sort albums and songs for the year of recording or first release (Duran Duran - My Own Way, 1981 (<My Own Way is a song on the Rio album released in 1982). 
 
2 - Original Release Time
 
MP3Tag: origyear - allowed as a date yyyy-mm-dd
Picard: originaldate - used as a year only (yyyy)
META: Original Release Time - allowed as yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss 
Written in..
id3v2.3: TORY frame - but only as a year yyyy (not sure if META does this too)
id3v2.4: TDOR frame (TimeDateOriginalRelease..) - allowed as yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss 
 
At the moment Emby does not seem to use the tag Original Release Time for Release Date or Year. 
 
3 - Recording Time
 
MP3Tag: year - used as yyyy, but can be written as yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss
Picard: date - as yyyy-mm-dd as far as I can tell
META: Year - only allowed as yyyy
Written in..
id3v2.3: TYER + TDAT (< by Picard!, so TYER for the year and TDAT for the date, I guess)
id3v2.4: TDRC frame (TimeDateRecorDing.. ) - allowed as yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss 
 
Recording Time is an interesting tag.
In MP3Tag or META you enter a year. 
In Picard you will see this year in the field Date, and you can complete it as a full date.
In Picard you will see Original Release Time as you entered it in MP3Tag or META, but Picard will save it as a year only. 
 
For Picard, Recording Time is the 'date' in general. So it is probably used by a lot of people as a general date of release of the song/or the album. 
For Picard the original first release of the song is in 'originaldate' (see Original Release Time). 
For MP3Tag and META Recording Time is 'just' Year - so people will use it either as year of release, or year of first release, or year of first recording. 
Picard allows a full date yyyy-mm-dd for Recording Time, whereas MP3Tag and META only allow a year yyyy. 
 
By the way: APE tags do not seem to be used by Emby for Release Date or Year. Remember I use a MacBook and WD NAS, there may be differences in Windows/Linux.   

 

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