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Trakt is switching to TMDB as the primary data source for TV shows


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MediaMogal

We’re switching to TMDB as the primary data source for TV shows

After several months of internal discussion, we are announcing our plans to use TMDB as the primary data source for all TV shows. The quality and completeness of data has greatly improved at TMDB over the years and we think with some re-alignment of community resources, it can work really well as Trakt’s primary TV data source.

Why are we switching to TMDB?

What it really boils down to is a moral opposition to taking in data from a community and then trying to sell it back to them. We believe when a user contributes to an online data source, they mean for that work to be shared with everyone around them. Both TMDB and Trakt have open and free APIs for developers to build upon that hard work.

Please read the remainder of the article here:

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ebr

Hi.  Our opinion doesn't really matter - it is what it is.  However, I'm not sure I completely agree with Trakt's stance of "moral opposition".  While, yes, Tvdb is using community contributions as the source of their data, they are providing sophisticated management and access to that data and that takes resources that aren't free.  So it isn't like they are completely unjustified in choosing this model.

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Happy2Play

Once they kill the older api versions yes we will need a updated plugin allowing users to enter their subscription pin if they want a use TVDB.

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Luke

Probably in the near future as I think we're getting close to that now.

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TeamB

Ok, I might disable Tvbd for now to see how this effects my system.

I would recommend you announce these events to the community sooner rather than later, regardless if you (team Emby) agree with Tvbd no not, this will effect your users and I feel you have an obligation to give people a heads up.

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MediaMogal
14 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Our opinion doesn't really matter - it is what it is.  However, I'm not sure I completely agree with Trakt's stance of "moral opposition".  While, yes, Tvdb is using community contributions as the source of their data, they are providing sophisticated management and access to that data and that takes resources that aren't free.  So it isn't like they are completely unjustified in choosing this model.

You'd be wrong in not supporting their stance. I don't care how you cut it They chose to take what was not theirs and profit off of it. That is what it boils down to.

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MediaMogal
10 hours ago, Happy2Play said:

Once they kill the older api versions yes we will need a updated plugin allowing users to enter their subscription pin if they want a use TVDB.

The subscription will have to be on Emby not the enduser, or you will need to port over to THeMovieDB.

Edited by MediaMogal
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MediaMogal
10 hours ago, TeamB said:

Ok, I might disable Tvbd for now to see how this effects my system.

I would recommend you announce these events to the community sooner rather than later, regardless if you (team Emby) agree with Tvbd no not, this will effect your users and I feel you have an obligation to give people a heads up.

So you can disable TheTVDB and just use TheMovieDB and or IMDB?

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ebr
2 hours ago, MediaMogal said:

You'd be wrong in not supporting their stance. I don't care how you cut it They chose to take what was not theirs and profit off of it. That is what it boils down to.

I'm sorry, but that isn't really true.  Just because raw materials are provided to you at no (or whatever) cost - if you take those materials and add some other service or value to them then that takes people, time, money, etc. and you are completely justified in charging for that.  You are also completely justified in attempting to create a business around this activity that may allow you to clothe and feed your kids.

The end user is also completely justified in deciding not to pay for it.  It is all about value.

This model is used in many, many places you just may not even know it.  For example, there are several very high-dollar weather services that cater to both individuals and companies.  All these services get their data from the same place and it is free.  But they then package and deliver that data in certain ways that make it valuable to the consumer.

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MediaMogal

I'm sorry nut you are completely wrong.  They are not compensating the editors. They did not even forewarn the editors that they were going to do what they did. They created the pay system and shut down the forums so peeps wouldn't complain having their work stolen.  They should of offed some kind of compensation to their editors. There is no getting past that fact.

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Luke
9 minutes ago, MediaMogal said:

I'm sorry nut you are completely wrong.  They are not compensating the editors. They did not even forewarn the editors that they were going to do what they did. They created the pay system and shut down the forums so peeps wouldn't complain having their work stolen.  They should of offed some kind of compensation to their editors. There is no getting past that fact.

There's different ways of looking at it. For the past two years tvdb has had a lot of problems, rollouts with major bugs, and has seemed inadequately staffed to handle them. So now this income will help them address that. They can't pay every single person who contributes an edit, but they probably do have some full time employees who do editing, and when they need to hire more, they will probably find them in their community just like we do for staff that we need.

I'm not trying to take a stance on their decision, I'm just saying that they were going to fail anyway if they had stayed on the path they were on before.

Time will tell what happens with MovieDb. It would not surprise me if they pick up a large number of users over this, and then in a couple years they're facing some of the same decisions of not being able to maintain their infrastructure being free and with volunteer staff.

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MediaMogal

Luke I seriously doubt they will use the income to correct their issues. One can hope that they will, but I personally won't hold my breath. As for their community as I stated above it doesn't exist any more. The SECOND they made their announcement they shuttered the forums.  TheTVDB has made several bad decisions of late.  I personally don't mind 12 a year for the service if I know they are going to get back to where they use to be quality wise. Personally I don't see that happening. Their model failed cause someone would go in, fix a show, and the staff would revert it to the wrong information again, then lock it from further change. I personally can think of a couple of dozen show where someone fix it and a couple of days later the staff reverted it and locked it. Like you said maybe now that they will be being paid they'll have the incentive to get their act together if they want to maintain their business. As for TheMovieDB once someone goes in and correct a show or movie I've yet to see TMDB revert the information. 

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rbjtech

It's $12 per year, $1 a month - as long as that includes a reasonable amount of API hits per month - then I see that as fair.   

They are selling the framework and infrastructure and as a professional service (as opposed to a community run service), that also means Service Level Agreements with the vendors that are paying to use that service.

To note - All metadata and images are copyright the respective owners anyway - users do not own these - even if they have been 'created' the network or whoever has rights on them.  

Web services that are run for 'free' are either advertising , or they are selling your data to gain revenue...   IMDB were the first and I highly suspect TMDB will follow ...

 

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TeamB
10 hours ago, MediaMogal said:

So you can disable TheTVDB and just use TheMovieDB and or IMDB?

Look in your TV library settings, you should see all the settings for the meta data sources.

I don't agree with what tvdb are doing, I also dont agree with some of the comparisons in this thread, they did not have a zero cost data source they just decided they would sell. It was supplied by volunteers, that does not make it zero worth, something freely given with an expectation it would be free to all, that was the expectation of the contributors. Again with everything, time will tell how this plays out.

My guess is they will lose some users to other services, and eventually maybe thoes other services will go subscription as well, perhaps someone will stand up a new free community service.

Given that these sort of meta data services are core to a large group of home enthusiast there will always be option as people find alternatives and solutions.

Edited by TeamB
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Luke
6 hours ago, MediaMogal said:

As for TheMovieDB once someone goes in and correct a show or movie I've yet to see TMDB revert the information. 

 

Right I think part of the blowback against tvdb making this move is that they've never had a very friendly community to begin with. A long time ago when I was just a Media Browser user I reported some incorrect show data on their forum and was responded to rudely about it. At that point I said I'm not doing this again. I've heard more similar stories than I can count over the years.

So at least Tmdb does not have that problem. I'm just saying that down the road they may grow to a point where they can't sustain themselves being free either, and hopefully users will be understanding if that happens.

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Happy2Play

@Luke OT: But the big question will be, will the TVDB plugin be build around v4 api for users to continue using TVDB with their subscription or will the plugin be pushed into the community to build out?

There is just not enough information around TVDB changes coming when legacy apis are shutdown and what all metadata manager devs are going to do.  As the only way I see TVDB to survive is if devs actually accommodate this user subscription base.  If they don't bother then their user base will diminish, I would think.

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Luke

No, we'll update it and add an option for users to enter their tvdb api key.

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gillmacca01

I wonder if the devs have ever though about creating a 'closed' metadata database for Emby users only.

it would probably solve this issue of realing on a 3rd party database

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MediaMogal
3 hours ago, gillmacca01 said:

I wonder if the devs have ever though about creating a 'closed' metadata database for Emby users only.

it would probably solve this issue of realing on a 3rd party database

I could see this.

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gillmacca01
2 minutes ago, MediaMogal said:

I could see this.

I would even be willing to pay for this. Imagine if it didn't just cover tv/movies, but also music video, concerts, etc. Could also have section for custom playlists/collections as well

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