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#21 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 06:56 PM

You really don't have a grasp of econ 101. As EBR stated and as I have also numerous times pointed out Plex needs to generate income for its investors, where is that coming from? I paid the fee for a lifetime Plex Pass 8 years ago, they haven't seen a penny from me since. I am sure that is the case for many others. The client that comes preinstalled on devices will not generate the needed income unless they opt for add supported content or subscriptions. In addition for those preinstalled clients Plex faces stiff competition from the likes of Roku which has their Roku channel offering the same as Plex does but Roku generates additional income from Hardware sales and licensing. I have a Roku TV which is inexpensive and fabulous, no hassle with setup and if I want paid content I can do so, plus Live TV using the Emby Roku client and their EPG. Roku's tech support is light years ahead of Plex. As EBR and I surmised Plex's future path is to get more revenue from the users and the only path forward is as the techcrunch article stated from add supported and / or subscriptions.

All of this has NOTHING to do with what features are superior on which platform, it is all about which ecosystem will you adopt, Plex's with no more primary focus on local network streaming but add supported and subscriptions or Emby's focusing on it's user-base's wishes to be implemented if possible in future releases. Since Plex as well as Emby control the functionality of the various clients they can at any time modify them to their liking. With Emby at this time it will not be with the view of generating income which is not the case with Plex.


And their model is working clearly or there wouldnt be a partnership with almost every major streaming device and television on the market. They have been profitable for what almost 10 years. They have partnered with how many major companies and continue to do so yet you see them failing? Nowhere have they stated they are dumping their primary purpose, thats your own speculation which as I said is pointless.

This whole thread is based on “which is better” and you had to come here to ask for help to prove your point to people on another forum. Now youre deflecting with some maybe scenario that has no basis.

The fact remains, neither is a complete product which is why you needed help to state your case in the first place.

#22 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 06:58 PM

Just a point of clarification: Our standard device limit is 25. We still believe that to be more than enough for any reasonable household (and extended family). And we have options for more above that so this has nothing to do with the control of your own users.


That contradicts the statement that “emby is under our control”. “You believe 25 is enough”, not “the users feel 25 is enough”.

#23 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 07:20 PM

That contradicts the statement that “emby is under our control”. “You believe 25 is enough”, not “the users feel 25 is enough”.

 

FWIW: I and every single Emby user I know not only believes 25 is plenty and all but 2 do not really understand the need to jump from 15 to 25.

 

Of course increasing that limit hurt nobody so there is no reason to complain.

 

Also there are ways of increasing that number so I do not understand there being any reason for complaint about device limits.

 

Of course it is my opinion that if there are actually more than 8-10 or so devices using a server then neither Emby or Plex is really being used correctly as they are both for "personal and family streaming and when you get to big numbers that is not generally all that the system is being used for.

 

On the other side I am not real sure why it matters to either Emby or Plex as it does not put much, if any, extra burden on the infrastructure involved.

 

I am now using only Emby for my streaming but Plex is also always available to me because I have a lifetime subscription to both. In fact I "may" resurrect my Plex server on my Shield simply because I can and, since Emby is now fully functional on my Roku Ultra I do not need to hold the Shield as a tertiary backup client.

 

I am sure I am not as knowledgeable about Emby and Plex in a multi-user situations as many are but I do think that I am pretty "average" as users go and therefore I may be more representative of the "average" user than the power users with large numbers of clients.



#24 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 07:36 PM

FWIW: I and every single Emby user I know not only believes 25 is plenty and all but 2 do not really understand the need to jump from 15 to 25.

Of course increasing that limit hurt nobody so there is no reason to complain.

Also there are ways of increasing that number so I do not understand there being any reason for complaint about device limits.

Of course it is my opinion that if there are actually more than 8-10 or so devices using a server then neither Emby or Plex is really being used correctly as they are both for "personal and family streaming and when you get to big numbers that is not generally all that the system is being used for.

On the other side I am not real sure why it matters to either Emby or Plex as it does not put much, if any, extra burden on the infrastructure involved.

I am now using only Emby for my streaming but Plex is also always available to me because I have a lifetime subscription to both. In fact I "may" resurrect my Plex server on my Shield simply because I can and, since Emby is now fully functional on my Roku Ultra I do not need to hold the Shield as a tertiary backup client.

I am sure I am not as knowledgeable about Emby and Plex in a multi-user situations as many are but I do think that I am pretty "average" as users go and therefore I may be more representative of the "average" user than the power users with large numbers of clients.


I agree completely about the user limit but it has definitely scared some people off. It wasnt really explained all that well and what I saw were people saying “plex doesnt have a limit so why would I switch to emby who has a limit”.

It worried me at first until I took the time to figure out what it meant and how it worked. Unfortunately alot of people wont take the time to do that.

#25 One2Go OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 11:15 PM

And their model is working clearly or there wouldnt be a partnership with almost every major streaming device and television on the market. They have been profitable for what almost 10 years. They have partnered with how many major companies and continue to do so yet you see them failing? Nowhere have they stated they are dumping their primary purpose, thats your own speculation which as I said is pointless.

This whole thread is based on “which is better” and you had to come here to ask for help to prove your point to people on another forum. Now youre deflecting with some maybe scenario that has no basis.

The fact remains, neither is a complete product which is why you needed help to state your case in the first place.

 

They make their software available on other streaming devices or hardware platforms that does not equate to revenue increase from those vendors. Ask the Emby devs how much they receive from Apple for making their client available on the Apple platform. You are missing the thrust of their business venture they will never state that they will abandoning the local streaming platform because that is what made them popular. Note from the article https://techcrunch.c...-its-media-app/ how Watchup founder Adriano Farano and Keith Valory, Plex CEO comment about Plex's acquisition of Watchup.

 

 

Farano also said his startup had 12 to 18 months of runway left at the time of the acquisition, which was a combination of cash and stock, and a positive outcome for investors. But the business was operating in a competitive space. He felt that both Watchup and Plex shared a similar vision, now that Plex is moving away from its earlier “bring your own content” approach to streaming media.

 

Plex is now entering into content distribution and that is where they up against the big boys, Apple, Netflix, Disney plus hardware manufacturers. educate yourself "Plex’s Bold Plan To Take On The Streaming Goliaths" https://www.fastcomp...eaming-goliaths

 

I started the thread and it was never about which is better read the title again I was relaying what was posted in a thread where no one here has access to since the site is closed for years to new signups. Since I have both products I don't need help to point out what I perceive as an advantage and certainly don't need help from here to highlight Emby's features.

 

Out of curiosity please post credible references for your insight in Plex's financial well-being from their deals they are making. Maybe ask the Devs here how much they receive from the big boys for making their software available. Plex like Emby started out with enthusiasts for organizing their own media platform Emby is staying their Plex has to reimburse its investors and can't stay there.


Edited by One2Go, 08 August 2019 - 11:16 PM.


#26 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 12:31 AM

...But some ideas from why others chose Emby would be helpful...


This is what you asked for. You were probably looking for a lovefest for Emby and Im sure many are willing to give it to you. I for one choose to be honest in saying neither is a complete product. I have given multiple factual reasons behind my opinion that not one person has disputed. Not sure why you are having a hard time understanding that and trying to steer a conversation away from what you asked for.

As for adding their app to an app store and its revenue, you clearly missed what was said. Plex has deals to be preinstalled on countless devices. You understand what that does right? That is advertising. Advertising that brings new users to their software. Advertising that gets people signing up for subscriptions. Subscriptions that bring in revenue, and its working and has been for quite some time. This isnt complicated. How many people who bought a nas, smart device or streaming device have heard of Plex? Probably millions? How many people did Emby reach using the same partnerships? Is Emby sponsored on any device actually? Theres your “business” strategy and success summed up as basic as I can make it for ya.

You clearly have a case of fanboyism and theres no reasoning with that so you do you and Ill continue accepting the fact that Plex just does some things better and Emby does others better. You wont change my mind and you clearly dont want to change yours so this has gone about as far as it can.

#27 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:13 AM

That contradicts the statement that “emby is under our control”. “You believe 25 is enough”, not “the users feel 25 is enough”.

 

There is no contradiction there.  You have complete control and options for more than 25 if that is what you need.  I never said everything was free.



#28 One2Go OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:41 AM

As for adding their app to an app store and its revenue, you clearly missed what was said. Plex has deals to be preinstalled on countless devices. You understand what that does right? That is advertising. Advertising that brings new users to their software. Advertising that gets people signing up for subscriptions. Subscriptions that bring in revenue, and its working and has been for quite some time. This isnt complicated. How many people who bought a nas, smart device or streaming device have heard of Plex? Probably millions?

Finally you get around to admit that Plex's future is in the subscription model which is why myself and others have stopped being active in the Plex world because that is not what we want. Also once you buy a lifetime pass that revenue will not be in the next years income. While Plex tries to reach as many hardware devices as they can while they are not addressing the problems with existing devices, their forum is full of complaints of this. In two of the major decision factors, control over your device by the admin not the software vendor and support for existing services and devices Plex is not the choice for many. Since I have used both for almost a decade now and keep Plex around for legacy users no Emby fanboy here just reality that Emby suits many because of their commitment to local streaming. Tell me how does Plex play back full BluRays including menus to my home theater? Please don't offer the solution of muxing or converting.



#29 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 12:49 PM

There is no contradiction there. You have complete control and options for more than 25 if that is what you need. I never said everything was free.


And as youve seen yourself, that limitation is one thing that people dont understand the reasoning behind and causes them to question switching to Emby.

Yes its enough but people dont know that when looking into switching to Emby. This question has been asked on here multiple times and it takes 4 or 5 members to explain it until the user understands. This is a limitation your competition doesnt have so its a bit confusing why its there in the first place.

#30 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:25 PM

And as youve seen yourself, that limitation is one thing that people dont understand the reasoning behind and causes them to question switching to Emby.

Yes its enough but people dont know that when looking into switching to Emby. This question has been asked on here multiple times and it takes 4 or 5 members to explain it until the user understands. This is a limitation your competition doesnt have so its a bit confusing why its there in the first place.

 

Okay, but what does that have to do with your statement about us contradicting ourselves?  I was simply responding to your assertion of that.

 

We do our best to make the limits clear and understand it still isn't perfect.  However, it is the best solution we have at this point in time.  The competition does impose limits but it does so by simply denying access to large installations.



#31 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:45 PM

Is Emby better than Plex? Or is Plex better than Emby? Or are the both equally bad? Or are they both equally good?

 

The answer is ultimately meaningless because they are sufficiently different that the answer to the questions must be specific to each individual's needs and usage case. They both approach media streaming solutions from different directions and the fill the streaming needs of people quite differently.

 

I used Plex for many years and rejected Emby (Media Browser) because of its primitiveness. However recently I have pretty much switched to Emby because it fits my needs better and the Emby people are MUCH more approachable. (They actually listen to and interact with their users.)

 

As a user I do not care and do not believe it matters if the approaches and profit models are different. Rather what matters to me is does the product work well and are the products stable and reliable and do the users have a say to some extent in the process of development and that is the difference that should be examined and even debated.

 

For me Plex abandoned its user base a few years ago and aimed their development toward filling the need of profit with an almost total disregard of user's wants and needs. Emby continues to develop toward the wants and needs of the users even, sometimes, implementing user suggestions over what the Emby developers originally wanted.

 

This disparity in development direction has caused the Plex software system to bloat and add many unneeded/features or addons, like Tidal, that serve to increase profits without really adding to what the majority of users want or need.

 

Emby is not totally immune to that trend but, so far, I have seen little that bloats the software without adding to the general user experience.

 

My dog even likes it more when I use Emby because there is generally less cursing and yelling at the TV because something is not working correctly when I use Emby than when I use Plex. A phrase my mother liked to use was "pretty is as pretty does" and sometimes Plex looks "pretty" but does not do "pretty" while most of the time Emby does "pretty" quite well.

 

In the end each user must make the choice and I believe that for most Emby is the better choice but not for most of the reasons debated in this thread but rather simply because Emby works better in most environments.


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#32 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 07:37 PM

Okay, but what does that have to do with your statement about us contradicting ourselves? I was simply responding to your assertion of that.


Its wrong to say users have complete control of their server when there are limitations such as device limits. Complete means complete, not with limitations.

Like I said though, the limits are not a big deal, once you understand how they work. I run quite a few devices and never had an issue. The biggest problem it causes is for potential users.

Can I know why the limits are in place though? Is it simply a revenue situation or is there a usage situation?

#33 Happy2Play OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 07:54 PM

Its wrong to say users have complete control of their server when there are limitations such as device limits. Complete means complete, not with limitations.

Like I said though, the limits are not a big deal, once you understand how they work. I run quite a few devices and never had an issue. The biggest problem it causes is for potential users.

Can I know why the limits are in place though? Is it simply a revenue situation or is there a usage situation?

 

Well the limitation is technically the client/apps and or features they choose to use.  Building specific device apps/clients take time and resources. 

 

You can use a browser and uses as many as you like.  But limitations apply such as Live TV or Hardware Acceleration or specific plugins requiring Premiere.  


Edited by Happy2Play, 09 August 2019 - 07:55 PM.


#34 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 08:10 PM

Well the limitation is technically the client/apps and or features they choose to use. Building specific device apps/clients take time and resources.

You can use a browser and uses as many as you like. But limitations apply such as Live TV or Hardware Acceleration or specific plugins requiring Premiere.


So its simply a revenue thing, to compensate developers? Theres nothing wrong with that but if thats it can someone finally just say thats what it is?

#35 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 09:03 PM

If it weren't for the device limit then we'd probably have to go with something more like the competitor model of having all users on all servers purchase unlocks or have premiere. One premiere purchase for an unlimited number of users is not a model that would allow us to sustain long term.

#36 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 09:24 PM

If it weren't for the device limit then we'd probably have to go with something more like the competitor model of having all users on all servers purchase unlocks or have premiere. One premiere purchase for an unlimited number of users is not a model that would allow us to sustain long term.


Ok, Im asking why does me having unlimited devices vs 25 matter? Is there something on your side that causes more strain the more devices I use? What is the limit for? What purpose does it actually serve?

#37 rakstr OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 09:26 PM

If it weren't for the device limit then we'd probably have to go with something more like the competitor model of having all users on all servers purchase unlocks or have premiere. One premiere purchase for an unlimited number of users is not a model that would allow us to sustain long term.

Emby does have an opportunity to snag a number of new subscribers IMO.  If you spend 10 minutes on the PLEX forums you'll see that they've not only made a CF of their guide data but basic DVR 101 features like watching a program being recorded on delay hasn't worked in more than a year.  It's a mess and many are suggesting a switch to EMBY.  Also, as mentioned herein, many users have had it with the DEVs and lack of support across the board.

 

I REALLY believe a 2 week free trial of Premiere could be enough to secure most of the PLEX LiverTV/DVR users.  It's really in that bad of shape right now.

 

EMBY should really try to capitalize on the turmoil over at PLEX.



#38 BAlGaInTl OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:43 PM

Ok, Im asking why does me having unlimited devices vs 25 matter? Is there something on your side that causes more strain the more devices I use? What is the limit for? What purpose does it actually serve?

 

It's just a different pricing model. 

 

With Plex, the server is free, but users pay to access the server through app purchases or more popularly, with Plex Pass.  By contrast the Emby license is with the server rather than the individual users.

 

I bought a lifetime license.  I share that with my family, a total of 8 accounts, but not everyone is very active. 15 devices was enough to me, but I upgraded to 45 before they changed the license.  I did this to support the project (thanks devs).  Now that's been increased to 25. I'm quite sure that would cover my family, most of whom just connect via a couple of TVs in each home.

 

So now lets break down the financials.

 

For my server the Emby team got $120. Plus another $99 for the 45 device increase, but we'll put that aside for now.  That's it.  As many people can connect to my server as my license limit will allow.  They don't have to purchase anything.  They do not have to have an Emby account.  The Emby team sees no money from them.

 

To get the same level of support with Plex, each user would buy a license.  Okay... so maybe some users wouldn't need to do that, but they would at least have to purchase the app.  Plus, they would not get to take advantage of the full system.  So to compare Apples to Apples (sort of), lets say all users purchased apps for a couple of devices. That would total :

 

Emby - $120

Plex - $120 + $70 (apps) = $190 - That number gets bigger if there are multiple users in those households.

 

The more users that are added... the more that would have to pay to access the server.

 

So that's why Emby has a limit.  They have to do something for revenue since they aren't getting paid either lifetime or monthly fees from a large group of users like Plex is.  They only get revenue from those running the server. 

 

Personally, I like this pricing model better.  It's seamless to my users who I just tell to go get the app and give them the URL for my server.


Edited by BAlGaInTl, 09 August 2019 - 11:54 PM.


#39 TylerV76 OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 12:15 AM

It's just a different pricing model.

With Plex, the server is free, but users pay to access the server through app purchases or more popularly, with Plex Pass. By contrast the Emby license is with the server rather than the individual users.

I bought a lifetime license. I share that with my family, a total of 8 accounts, but not everyone is very active. 15 devices was enough to me, but I upgraded to 45 before they changed the license. I did this to support the project (thanks devs). Now that's been increased to 25. I'm quite sure that would cover my family, most of whom just connect via a couple of TVs in each home.

So now lets break down the financials.

For my server the Emby team got $120. Plus another $99 for the 45 device increase, but we'll put that aside for now. That's it. As many people can connect to my server as my license limit will allow. They don't have to purchase anything. They do not have to have an Emby account. The Emby team sees no money from them.

To get the same level of support with Plex, each user would buy a license. Okay... so maybe some users wouldn't need to do that, but they would at least have to purchase the app. Plus, they would not get to take advantage of the full system. So to compare Apples to Apples (sort of), lets say all users purchased apps for a couple of devices. That would total :

Emby - $120
Plex - $120 + $70 (apps) = $190 - That number gets bigger if there are multiple users in those households.

The more users that are added... the more that would have to pay to access the server.

So that's why Emby has a limit. They have to do something for revenue since they aren't getting paid either lifetime or monthly fees from a large group of users like Plex is. They only get revenue from those running the server.

Personally, I like this pricing model better. It's seamless to my users who I just tell to go get the app and give them the URL for my server.

Plex home members get access to all the apps for free. Maximum of 15 members per home share. So no, its definitely not cheaper and to Plex users looking to switch its a bit concerning to have a device limit.

https://support.plex...t-is-plex-home/

Edited by TylerV76, 10 August 2019 - 12:16 AM.


#40 darkassassin07 OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 03:45 AM

Plex home members get access to all the apps for free. Maximum of 15 members per home share. So no, its definitely not cheaper and to Plex users looking to switch its a bit concerning to have a device limit.

https://support.plex...t-is-plex-home/



Ok, so (looking at current prices)
With emby you can pay 120$ to allow 25 clients to connect to your server without limitation and no monthly cost. Then chose to expand that at will for a monthly fee (which very very few people actually have a need for).

With plex, you can pay 120$ to allow 15 users access without limitation, and then each user past that must buy their own app/subscription. (at least as far as I understand it)


The main difference I notice is 'clients' vs 'users'. Plex lets you have 15 actual people get the benefits on as many clients as each individual uses (even if that totals up to be more than 15 clients/devices).
Emby on the other hand, limits the number of clients/devices. You could have 25 people connected from a single client each, or you could have one person with 25 devices connected, but you can't exceed 25 actual clients/devices.





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