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TheRealDeria

4k playback actually 4k?

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TheRealDeria

I downloaded this tool and the android TV app for my Sony Bravia TV. When I play 4k content the 'gear' popup for settings says my video mode is 1080/60 and I cannot tap it to see other options but the 'stats for nerds' lists the video size as 4k. Is emby downscaling or is one of these things not accurate? If it is downscaling how can I prevent that? I've been using plex up to this point but its constant buffering has driven me nuts. Emby is playing the same files that plex chokes on but that won't do me much good if it's a scaled down version. It does indicate direct play so I'm at least sure it's not transcoding.

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pünktchen

The gear reports the Android GUI resolution which is always 1080/60 on those Sony tv and then is upscaled to your display resolution. The gear does not report the resolution the video is rendered nor the display resolution which always 4K.

So if you see no transcoding in stats for nerds than it's rendered at the native video resolution. Every video lower than 4K will be upscaled by the tv.

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ebr

During playback, the displayed resolution should be accurate.

 

Have you tried enabling refresh rate switching in the settings?

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TheRealDeria

I can give that a try and see what happens. The first post seems to imply that it should say 1080-60 though. I'll try it out when I get home though.

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TheRealDeria

During playback, the displayed resolution should be accurate.

 

Have you tried enabling refresh rate switching in the settings?

 

Hi -- tried this tonight and it still says 1080/60.0 in the "gear" icon.  The content that I'm playing is definitely neither 1080 in terms of resolution nor 60.0 in terms of frame rate.

 

Is anyone else seeing this behaviour with Android TV in general or Sony Bravia 4k TV's in specific?  I can't be the only one.

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ebr

I don't have that specific TV but, with my Shield, it shows the proper display mode:

 

5d0b8cf9eef40_displaymode.png

 

Can you play one of these items briefly (with the refresh rate enabled) and then send the log?

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pünktchen

Just believe me @@ebr

resolution and/or refresh rate switching doesn't work under Android TV with Sony, Phillips and probably all the other tv manufactures. It doesn't even work with Kodi. It only works with the hdmi inputs.

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TheRealDeria

@@ebr I can certainly get you a log, yes.

 

It would be pretty disappointing if 4k wasn't possible. I do have a Shoeld TV as well but my goal is to eliminate that since the TV should be more than capable.

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pünktchen

@@ebr I can certainly get you a log, yes.

 

It would be pretty disappointing if 4k wasn't possible. I do have a Shoeld TV as well but my goal is to eliminate that since the TV should be more than capable.

Test it yourself: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=261768

The video link is dead but here's another one: https://mega.nz/#!ioRVgaaL!H5yDvLwS056SWms_meyd3DoVFx6Au4Yd6rj0lbk5MzY

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TheRealDeria

I'll try it out.  I had found the article on the Kodi forum that you linked earlier tonight and was planning on trying it.  I'll post back with what I find.

 

I also read the log-posting article, so I'll go ahead and do that now as well.

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TheRealDeria

I don't have that specific TV but, with my Shield, it shows the proper display mode:

 

5d0b8cf9eef40_displaymode.png

 

Can you play one of these items briefly (with the refresh rate enabled) and then send the log?

 

@@ebr Ok, I got the log and submitted it.  With or without refresh rate switching, the gear icon says the same thing (always 1080/60).  Subjectively, I would say that the refresh rate is truly 60 -- the action seemed too fluid, which is normally a 60hz thing.  The specific TV I have is a Sony x900f.

 

EDIT:  Oops.  Forgot to indicate user & time.  Use logged in was named "Default" (I'm so fancy with my custom names!) and the time was 9:46 pm Mountain.

Edited by TheRealDeria

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TheRealDeria

 

Ok, so I tried that video on:

 

1) my 4k computer monitor -- bottom line is legible, so thats a good baseline

2) emby on the Sony X900F -- bottom line not legible at all

3) plex on the Sony X900F -- bottom line not legible at all

4) emby on Shield TV -- bottom line not legible at all

5) plex on Shield TV -- bottom line not legible at all

 

So...  I think all I've proven is that my computer monitor is pretty amazing?  Or, and this is entirely possible, the X900F is crap at rendering small text.

 

I can say for sure that Plex is using ExoPlayer v2 and Emby is using ExoPlayer (v1 presumably).  Since I can't really see any visual difference between the two I doubt that is the cause of any issues, though.

 

I'm not really sure what to make of this.  I probably wouldn't care too much about the 4k part of it, but the refresh rate is a deal-breaker.  Can't watch 24fps content at 60fps and remain sane.  That being said, I do have the option of using the Shield TV but then I'm still stuck with that thing's foibles.

 

This has to be possible, though.  I mean, Netflix is (as far as I can tell) doing it.

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pünktchen

... Or, and this is entirely possible, the X900F is crap at rendering small text.

Maybe. But mostly your tv is just bad calibrated.

 

This has to be possible, though.  I mean, Netflix is (as far as I can tell) doing it.

If you mean refreshrate switching on the Shield - not possible with the native Netflix app.

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ebr

I can say for sure ... and Emby is using ExoPlayer (v1 presumably).

 

That is NOT correct.  We are using Exo v2.  I cannot speak to exactly what Plex is using.

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ebr

Yep, your device is not exposing the 4k resolution to the Android system.  What crap...

06-20 21:44:42.929 21332 21332 I System.out: ** Available display refresh rates:
06-20 21:44:42.930 21332 21332 I System.out: 1080/60.000004

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pünktchen

Yep, your device is not exposing the 4k resolution to the Android system. What crap...

06-20 21:44:42.929 21332 21332 I System.out: ** Available display refresh rates:
06-20 21:44:42.930 21332 21332 I System.out: 1080/60.000004

Didn't i told you [emoji33]

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ebr

Didn't i told you [emoji33]

 

It wasn't that I didn't believe you - I just needed to be sure there was nothing we could do about it.

 

Does this mean the video is also not actually playing at 4K or just that the Android system is not reporting things properly?  That's the part I cannot confirm.  It would seem ludicrous that the video is not playing 4K if that is the source...

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pünktchen

4K is played at 4K, everything else is upscaled to 4K.

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TheRealDeria

That is NOT correct.  We are using Exo v2.  I cannot speak to exactly what Plex is using.

 

Ah.  I was basing my statement off the information presented on the display -- it just said "ExoPlayer" where Plex's client showed "ExoPlayer v2". Could just be a presentation thing though.

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TheRealDeria

4K is played at 4K, everything else is upscaled to 4K.

 

How can you be certain of that, though?  It would be nice if there was a way to definitely prove it.  That being said, though, the refresh rate is probably a more serious issue than the resolution.  From more than a few feet away 1080p and 4k look pretty similar to most people but anyone can tell 24fps content being played on a 60fps display.

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TheRealDeria

Maybe. But mostly your tv is just bad calibrated.

 

If you mean refreshrate switching on the Shield - not possible with the native Netflix app.

 

Re: calibration -- very possibly.  I'm literally just using the recommended settings from rtings.com.

 

Re: refresh rate switching -- I was referring to the app on the TV itself.  The shield TV seems to have no issues refresh rate switching (or at least it shows 24fps when I start playing a 24fps video and I don't see any of the soap opera effect or hitching).

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TheRealDeria

@@ebr Ok, I've been doing some more research/experimentation on this.  There are two things of note:

 

1) The Emby app is, as far as Android TV is concerned, in the "App" category instead of the "App (video)" category.  Video, Netflix, YouTube, and Amazon Prime are all in the "App (video)" category.  The TV helpfully shows this information (it considers them to be different inputs in terms of customization).  These categories apparently correspond to a compile-time selection when you compile your application; applications classified as App (video) apparently have additional control over the hardware (resolution/refresh rate switching).  The specific quote I saw (which, to be clear, wasn't linked to an official source so take it with a grain of salt) said this:  "Apps compiled as "Application (Video)" have access to hardware 4K video decoding, that is why Youtube, Netflix, etc, play video at 4K. Apps compiled as "Application" have limited access to 1080p video rendering only."

 

Whether or not this was ever accurate, or still is, I can't say but the log you posted showed 1080/60 being reported by the TV.  I wonder if the category were different if it would report a larger selection?

 

2) I was able to determine that the bottom-line of that clip not being legible was a product of the TV "helping" my image quality.  Once I found out that the apps were being treated as a separate input, I was able to go into Emby and then open the picture adjustments menu of the TV from there and turn off all that garbage (reality creation, noise reduction, etc.).  At that point, the video played clearly so if you accept the basic premise that non-4k playback would mangle that bottom-line, then I would be inclined to say the video is actually coming out at 4K.  I'm thinking to myself about whether or not I have a 1080p display to try it on to verify that; I might have an old monitor laying around somewhere.

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TheRealDeria

@@ebr To add to my previous comments, I actually opened a GitHub issue for ExoPlayer for inquire about this.  Here is the link:

 

https://github.com/google/ExoPlayer/issues/6083#issuecomment-504982714

 

It looks like this is the gist:

 

"If you're using SurfaceView (which is the default if you're using PlayerView), it will render at full (4k) resolution even though the UI is rendered at 1080p. See also #800."

 

Also, they have some hooks if you want to capture/report information about the input/output:

 

"We already have two callback for both sides of the process:
onVideoSizeChanged is called when the input media resolution is first set or is changed.
onSurfaceSizeChanged is called when the output surface resolution is first set or is changed."

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Luke

We'll see what @@ebr thinks. Thanks !

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ebr

That just means that it is working as we thought.  The video is 4K and the UI is 1080.

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