In-Progress Add DV, Atmos, DTS:X, HDR10+, HLG information to database

[GrimReaper 3294]

3 minutes ago, MSI2017 said:

recently I have noticed that HDR tonemapping (which finally looks pretty close now that I've got the diagnostic menu) is almost perfect when using it on my MacBook (client) but when watching on a Windows machine it tends to be a bit too bright? Any troubleshooting steps I could try.

I would suggest opening separate topic for your issues as this is not a troubleshooting thread. 

[rbjtech 4265]

4 minutes ago, MSI2017 said:

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation! Somewhat related to this, but recently I have noticed that HDR tonemapping (which finally looks pretty close now that I've got the diagnostic menu) is almost perfect when using it on my MacBook (client) but when watching on a Windows machine it tends to be a bit too bright? Any troubleshooting steps I could try. I've also had it just die on a chromecast but I've mentioned that in a separate topic so that is less important.

... Maybe try calibrate your displays so they are all the same brightness ..   It's possible the windows machines are simply brighter .. 

[ebr 14913]

2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

So if it's DV7 or DV8 - then it should say 'DV+HDR10' (ie it WILL tonemap & transcode ok) - if it's DV5 - then it should just say 'DV Only' (maybe) - and consequently will not tm or transcode ok.

I agree with this.  Specific profile levels should be shown in the media info section perhaps but as general display most end users won't know which profile means what.

15 hours ago, Cheesegeezer said:

People that are investing into a DV TV will know what they are buying and will understand what they get from each level

I also don't agree as I'm sure most of the people "investing" in a DV TV did so because the sales guy at the store said "You want Dolby Vision.  Its better."

[softworkz 3335]

9 minutes ago, ebr said:

as general display most end users won't know which profile means what.

The information that is useful and most important is the cross-compatibility of the profile which is defined like this:

The typical cases are 0 and 1 - that's why I said it should state whether it's HDR10 compatible right next to telling that it's DV.

But to be precise, it's that information from the table above (the second column) that should be written after "DV" - Those terms are also way more familiar to people than the DV profiles and it makes it easy to "match" that with a TV's capabilities on one side and to understand when something cannot be transcoded (properly) on the other side.

[softworkz 3335]

Also, we're not only detecting DV but also native HDR10 and "HDR10 compatible", which should also indicated in the same way (just without DV, then).
Same again for HLG.

The only one we don't detect yet is HDR10+

Edited March 8, 2023 by softworkz

[softworkz 3335]

This results in the following possible cases:

• DV (non-compatible)

• DV (HDR10 compatible)

• DV (SDR)

• DV (HLG compatible)

• HLG

• HDR10 compatible

The last bullet includes HDR10 and HDR10+ - hence the text "HDR10 compatible"

As soon as we will be able to detect HDR10+ as well, it can turn into this:

• DV (non-compatible)

• DV (HDR10 compatible)

• DV (SDR)

• DV (HLG compatible)

• HLG

• HDR10

• HDR10+

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

3 hours ago, ebr said:

I agree with this.  Specific profile levels should be shown in the media info section perhaps but as general display most end users won't know which profile means what.

I also don't agree as I'm sure most of the people "investing" in a DV TV did so because the sales guy at the store said "You want Dolby Vision.  Its better."

And the difference in price is what? 2, 300 dollars? Thats a tough sell. And against a hdr tv hardly any comparison and then they will need a DV calibration for their room. 
 

if you ask me general Joe public want basics. Audio/visual philes want what they have researched and comfortable with. 
 

nobody these days trusts a saleman at a general store. If there are specialist stores that pride themselves on technology then I’m inclined to listen tothem.

either way… the point here is, every level of DV needs to be identified and handled in the eco system you have created.

it’s expensive to be cheap so do it rightat tge beginning rather than refactoring later.

[softworkz 3335]

20 minutes ago, Cheesegeezer said:

it’s expensive to be cheap so do it rightat tge beginning rather than refactoring later.

This is just about what is going to be displayed where.

Internally it's all in place in all detail and won't need any refactoring for the next 10 years.

[Peckmore 6]

On 3/8/2023 at 11:33 AM, rbjtech said:

So if it's DV7 or DV8 - then it should say 'DV+HDR10' (ie it WILL tonemap & transcode ok) - if it's DV5 - then it should just say 'DV Only' (maybe) - and consequently will not tm or transcode ok.

On 3/8/2023 at 2:48 PM, softworkz said:

As soon as we will be able to detect HDR10+ as well, it can turn into this:

• DV (non-compatible)

• DV (HDR10 compatible)

• DV (SDR)

• DV (HLG compatible)

• HLG

• HDR10

• HDR10+

Not sure what the final plan is, but just wanted to add a vote to keeping the format name short if possible? I think it makes it easier to read at a glance, and keeps the UI a little cleaner?

I really liked the suggestion above of using "DV+" for the DV formats. So for your list above, something like:

• DV
• DV+HDR10
• DV+SDR
• DV+HLG
• HLG
• HDR10
• HDR10+

Edited March 16, 2023 by Peckmore

[crusher11 851]

I bought a DV-compatible TV because I wanted an OLED and it was the only OLED on the market.

Lots of people just know DV is better than non-DV, so they buy DV. Or, like me, they just end up with it unaware. Others try to buy DV because they want DV and still buy a TV that doesn't have DV.

And I, as someone who has owned a DV-capable TV for seven years, still have no idea what DV profiles are. And I guarantee I'm more across that sort of thing than most people.

[rbjtech 4265]

57 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

I bought a DV-compatible TV because I wanted an OLED and it was the only OLED on the market.

Lots of people just know DV is better than non-DV, so they buy DV. Or, like me, they just end up with it unaware. Others try to buy DV because they want DV and still buy a TV that doesn't have DV.

And I, as someone who has owned a DV-capable TV for seven years, still have no idea what DV profiles are. And I guarantee I'm more across that sort of thing than most people.

ok - so in your own way - you are basically agreeing with the above.. 

Keep it simple - if you want the full DV profiles and audio profiles - then use the MediaInfo plugin.

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

4 hours ago, crusher11 said:

I bought a DV-compatible TV because I wanted an OLED and it was the only OLED on the market.

Lots of people just know DV is better than non-DV, so they buy DV. Or, like me, they just end up with it unaware. Others try to buy DV because they want DV and still buy a TV that doesn't have DV.

And I, as someone who has owned a DV-capable TV for seven years, still have no idea what DV profiles are. And I guarantee I'm more across that sort of thing than most people.

Right, but if emby can make your viewing experience seamless and also give you more info about what your tv is capable of… that surely is a win win.

personally i think for anyone they should get more info than less, it’s an education, and i spent some time last night with my wife designing a bedroom system and she was like a 7yr old kid…: but why… but why….. then she understood. Size of tv, resolution, viewing distance play a massive role in what you need for a start. We have a 32” 1080p tv  in the kitchen and she had to get within a foot to see pixelation, as soon as she moved to 1.5-2ft she couldn’t see it, so whats the point of paying extra for something you actually will never enjoy. 
same goes for OLED, if your have a south facing room with top end OLED, you’ll get washed out. 
 

brings me back to my original point a few pages ago. Do your research if you wanna get the best, but your best is for your viewing environment and not a shop floor, with a penny pinchy barsteward! 
 

Davey oooot min

Edited March 16, 2023 by Cheesegeezer

[TroyKing 22]

Out of curiosity, I’m guessing the answer is no but is it possible to include logos instead of it just saying “Dolby Vision” or “Dolby Atmos”?

Similar to how Netflix does it. I’m guessing there’s some copyright involved. But if not it would be a great option in my opinion

Edited March 26, 2023 by TroyKing

[GrimReaper 3294]

3 minutes ago, TroyKing said:

guessing the answer is no

You're guessing right. 

You can lend your support here:

Similar duplicate FR:

 

[arrbee99 1560]

Don't think I've ever seen a logo that was more legible than plain text.

[VanityMurror 0]

Adding my support here for including "DV" in the media info at the very least. Profile would be useful but just those two characters (or a logo) would make libraries so much easier to browse.

[Luke 37066]

5 hours ago, VanityMurror said:

Adding my support here for including "DV" in the media info at the very least. Profile would be useful but just those two characters (or a logo) would make libraries so much easier to browse.

Hi, the upcoming 4.8 server release will have built-in DV detection.

[supermood 17]

hi will also atmos and dts x be shown in the movie page or maybe even to search for..? 

 

thanks, 

[rbjtech 4265]

18 minutes ago, supermood said:

hi will also atmos and dts x be shown in the movie page or maybe even to search for..? 

 

thanks, 

With the MediaInfo Plugin - yes (view and search by tag) in the Core, I don't believe so - as ffmpeg cannot as of yet identify object based audio extensions - ie Atmos or DTS-X. 

As an example - this is filtering that library by DTS:X - the tags are automatically written by the Plugin.

Edited October 24, 2023 by rbjtech

[supermood 17]

ah! thanks for your fast reply. I'm only a user, surely no expert on it stuff... last time I heard ffmpeg was to change a video file with fixed subtitles 10 years ago

I'm using emby for Android TV on my nvidia shield pro directly via app store (I guess like most other?) because with the sideloaded android app my srt subtitles are looking like xxx

but in the android app with scrolling down looking at the additional info you always see if it's dts x for example.

audio - embedded title. so I hoped to have a direct view on my TV as well? 

I thought I have installed all required plug ins (maybe 15) but in the catalog I cannot find the mentioned one. how do I get it?

emby server is running on a synology nas, latest version. 

best! d*

 

[signde 25]

I know I am necro'ing an older thread here but the discussions around the AFTV max stick having issues with HDR10+ has me poking around.

I see that DV information is being added in server version 4.8 - that's cool.

What about HDR10+? This format is getting a lot more popular now that Apple+, Amazon Prime Video, Hulu, Paramount+, etc support it as does hardware such as the Apple TV and new AFTV hardware.

I have seen repeated comments in this thread that ffmpeg can't detect object based audio and/or HDR formats. I do not believe that is entirely true. It requires some custom code and multiple steps through it but the Sevarr collection of apps is able to detect audio and HDR formats via ffprobe. In fact the Sonarr v4 release notes explicitly state they dropped MediaInfo in favor of ffprobe. Both Sonarr and Radarr are able to produce info such as "[DV HDR10Plus][EAC3 Atmos 5.1]" and "[DV HDR10][TrueHD Atmos 7.1]".

Here's the code for HDR parsing:
https://github.com/Sonarr/Sonarr/blob/develop/src/NzbDrone.Core/MediaFiles/MediaInfo/VideoFileInfoReader.cs#L182 

They are using a .net wrapper around ffmpeg but at the end of the day it's shelling out calls to the ffprobe binary:
https://github.com/Servarr/FFMpegCore/blob/4.7-servarr/FFMpegCore/FFProbe/FFProbe.cs

MIT License, code is free for the taking.

[rbjtech 4265]

15 minutes ago, signde said:

I have seen repeated comments in this thread that ffmpeg can't detect object based audio and/or HDR formats. I do not believe that is entirely true. It requires some custom code....

If it requires custom code (from mediainfo, according to the arr release notes below ...) then the statement is true no ?

Without 'helpers' - ffprobe does not currently support detection of HDR10+ metadata ... same, I believe, for object based audio detection (Atmos, DTS:X etc) ..

 

 

[signde 25]

10 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

If it requires custom code (from mediainfo, according to the arr release notes below ...) then the statement is true no ?

Without 'helpers' - ffprobe does not currently support detection of HDR10+ metadata ... same, I believe, for object based audio detection (Atmos, DTS:X etc) ..

 

 

That's Radarr.

I specifically linked to Sonarr which previously used media info but no longer does.

The code I linked to in Sonarr is purely ffprobe based, using the core Sevarr ffmpeg code.

The custom code I mentioned is the algorithm around probing as it takes multiple calls and some inference from the results. 

Edited January 19 by signde

[rbjtech 4265]

42 minutes ago, signde said:

That's Radarr.

I specifically linked to Sonarr which previously used media info but no longer does.

The code I linked to in Sonarr is purely ffprobe based, using the core Sevarr ffmpeg code.

The custom code I mentioned is the algorithm around probing as it takes multiple calls and some inference from the results. 

Interesting the two arr's having different approaches to codec identification, I thought they would be aligned here.. 

I do know emby uses a custom ffmpeg/probe - so maybe they can include HDR10+ detection but I suspect they will wait for it to become built into the ffmpeg core, like they did for DV. 

Edited January 19 by rbjtech

[signde 25]

25 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Interesting the two arr's having different approaches to codec identification, I thought they would be aligned here.. 

I do know emby uses a custom ffmpeg/probe - so maybe they can include HDR10+ detection but I suspect they will wait for it to become built into the ffmpeg core, like they did for DV. 

I was surprised by that too but upon further digging, Radarr no longer uses the Media Info library either and is strictly ffprobe based.

https://github.com/Radarr/Radarr/releases/tag/v4.0.4.5922

The class names that are used in analyzing media in both apps are still named Media Info. I suspect that is both because the place holders both arr apps use to rename files reference that exact name and in general "Media Info" is literally what that data is.