Disc 1, Disc 2... folders stacking

[Luke 37112]

I'm pretty sure there is a topic about that in the EMC section so we'll discuss it there. Thanks.

[mbguy 38]

but this is the problem. Ok it gets fixed but it’s a function barely anyone uses so it gets little testing during beta cycles and will break again. And again.

 

The reason why people push the convert to mob option so hard is it’s a one time fix. Forever. And actually more functional than the legacy method.

Hi all, sorry I'm a bit behind. Just catching up now with replies.

 

@@Spaceboy, would you please clarify the following?

 

1. who are the "people" that you are referring to? Emby developers? Other users?

 

2. how is converting to mkv a "...one-time fix. Forever" when it doesn't address the issue of missing access to disc menu and interface?

 

3. how is mkv "more functional" when it doesn't give me blu-ray menus?

[mbguy 38]

Looks like there's a regression related to this in the current server release, although for the best experience possible we recommend converting to mkv.

 

Thanks @@Luke for responding. Please correct me if I am wrong, this sounds like "folder stacking" is supported just broken in this release. If so, I look forward to the fix soon, thanks!

 

Nonetheless, would you be able to clarify the phrase "best experience." Which part of the experience are you referring to? I am not trying to be burdensome, just wanting to understand better.

 

Bluray menus and ability to access specials/extras are important to me and I don't have the time to rip my discs, let alone all the tiny specials/extras files.

[mbguy 38]

ok if you are saying it’s more work up front then I agree with that. No argument. But you can add all the extras you like. I have.

 

But in my opinion, that initial effort is worth it for a better overall experience. Actually better visibility of things like disc extras. Far more reliable playback and zero chance of things breaking in future

 

@@Spaceboy, could you clarify what you mean by "better visibility of disc extras."

 

Would it be too much to ask that you attach a screenshot of a disc entry with links to extras?

 

I am just not familiar with the interface (haven't seen any examples in this forum either) so a picture will help me understand better.

[mbguy 38]

The two camps have for as long as I can remember been at opposite ends unmovable and touting each one the advantage. For different situations and playback preferences individuals will choose either option 1 or 2 and both will coexist with making both camps happy, one in front of their tablet or smartphone one in front of their 20K Home Theater with a tub of popcorn.

 

@@One2Go, I don't have a 20k Home Theatre but I would still like to have access to bluray menus and to be able to see the design of the various menus intended by filmmakers, especially when my Zidoo media player can read, see and interact with bluray/uhd disc menus.

 

Is this a valid need?

 

[mbguy 38]

correct, except that the developers only want to support option 1. And that trumps everything else. At the end of the day you are fighting a losing battle, it doesn’t really matter what our opinions are

 

I apologize if I have missed the statements by the developers. Have Emby developers officially stated somewhere that they don't support BDMV file stacking? Or something else other than what I asked in the original post? Please clarify if possible, thanks.

 

[Deathsquirrel 741]

Hi all, sorry I'm a bit behind. Just catching up now with replies.

 

@@Spaceboy, would you please clarify the following?

 

1. who are the "people" that you are referring to? Emby developers? Other users?

 

2. how is converting to mkv a "...one-time fix. Forever" when it doesn't address the issue of missing access to disc menu and interface?

 

3. how is mkv "more functional" when it doesn't give me blu-ray menus?

 

It's better in that eliminates those things.  You may as well argue the car is inferior to the horse because the car made you buy fertilizer instead of allowing you to recycle horse crap

 

Every TV show in my collection has a consistent UI.  Special features are always in the same place.  I never watch unskippable previews.  The up button on my remote control does the same thing on every single title I own, instead of act at the whim of whatever the DVD menu designer thought was cool at the time the discs were made.

 

I used to use disc rips.  This is BETTER.

[One2Go 98]

I don't have a 20k Home Theatre but I would still like to have access to bluray menus and to be able to see the design of the various menus intended by filmmakers, especially when my Zidoo media player can read, see and interact with bluray/uhd disc menus.

 

Is this a valid need?

 

I was hinting towards the minority here that have a home theater rather then playing back the content on portable devices or small screens. My setup is a 136" screen, a ceiling projector, a Denon AV amp a 10ft remote and two UnRaid servers with 50TB of media content. For this I need a playback solution that can serve my media content which exists of Blu-ray discs, DVDs, MKV plus other containers like mp4. Since for you and me Blu-ray menus are important there are very few playback solutions and basically only two apply to us. EMBY has an excellent internal player called EMBY Theater but it does not do Blu-ray menus because it is a BDA licensing issue not a dev willingness issue.

 

Solution 1: a HTPC running Windows plus EMBY for Windows Media Center (EMC) with a Blu-ray software player like PDVD. EMC from day one has supported the launch of external software players for Blu-rays or DVDs and nowhere have the devs indicated that the launching of external players will cease to exist. The HTPC solution is easy, good stability and maturity for both Emby and software players. Some don't like it because of the Windows updates and tweaking of driver and filters. Even though with LAV filters and the madVR renderer this has been greatly reduced.

 

Solution 2: A Media Streamer or player like your Zidoo. Most prefer the NVIDEA Shield because of its integration with Kodi and Emby for Kodi. I know of several persons with Home Theaters that run Emby for Kodi and then use Kodi as the eye candy front end and the Shield as the playback solution. I am keeping my eye on this. The Shield is two years old and many are waiting for the next version.

 

However all these solutions require that Emby serves the data in such a fashion that it can be displayed to our liking which brings me to your stacked disc problem. I am not quite sure what you mean by stacked but I have a TOP folder underneath this folder I have several folders each contains a Blu-ray discs. Look at the screen shots from the Web client, is this something that you are trying to achieve? My video wall for movies then the Jason Bourne Collection. Finally how it appears in EMC with custom themes. By clicking on the selection it will launch PDVD and play back the Blu-ray with full original menus.

 

Movie Video Wall

 

Jason Bourne Collection

 

 

EMC Video Wall

 

 

EMC Jason Bourne Collection

 

Is this what you are trying to achieve? After the update to version 4.0.1.0 this did not work for libraries that had Content = Movies. I changed my three Movie libraries to Content = Mixed and the nested folder display started to work again.

 

Believe me the devs here are doing a marvelous job going beyond any expectations. It was a massive and major update plus the community here is one of the most supportive I have seen. So stick around make some changes, backup your images and metadata YES you will have to invest time.

[Carlo 4330]

Just something to think about.  Emby is designed to be a media streaming platform, not a DVD or Blu-ray player.  Being able to play Disc images was important 10+ years ago when people used HTPC as clients.  There really was no such thing as streaming back then.  Everything was played back from the computer itself or from the local network where you had file access.

 

In today's world there is little need for a dedicated PC.  They are far to complex for the average user and often times not as good as a dedicated streaming device.  anyone can go to a local department store and purchase a high end Roku or visit Best Buy and pickup a Shield TV (or order off the Internet).  You get a box that is every bit as powerful as the computer you would have needed for 4K playback and it comes with a remote that's easy to use.  No need for a mouse or keyboard.  No tricky OS updates or device drivers complications.  No need to install DVD/Blu-Ray software or all the codecs you will need.

 

Sure, Emby still supports running a client on a computer and have a couple of different apps to do this including the popular Theater app.  The difference is that in today's world most people use Theater while actually watching the content on the computer using the keyboard and mouse and NOT using a remote. It's just another convenience way of accessing your Emby server.  Very few people use an HTTP setup anymore.

 

Since dedicated devices and web access account for the overwhelming amount of use,  Emby needs to focus on these devices and the formats they can play.  The formats talked about in this thread don't really fit the modern equipment used or the way people are consuming media anymore.  Sure there ARE die-hards still doing this but it's far less common then it used to be.

 

If you do as Spaceboy mentioned and rip the content to MKVs then you could still use this content in the "new" way of accessing Emby and have it available everywhere.  When you need DISC MENU access you limit yourself big time.  You might be able to use this content but you won't be able to effectively share it with anyone else as they won't be able to play it.

[Luke 37112]

In the interests of transparency this is going to be really hard to restore right now given the changes in the server. I think it could be a little while before this happens.

[Deathsquirrel 741]

Just a thought on One2Go's most recent post.  Nothing in having a large collection relates to maintaining media in a disc-based storage format.  I have a slightly larger storage setup than he does and it's completely full.  Tomorrow I'll begin swapping the 8TB drives for 12TB models.  Full blu-ray rips eat a lot of space when you have a couple thousand movies and goodness knows how many TV seasons on disc.

 

None of that is in a disc format.  100% has been converted to MKV, including maintaining any extras I wish to access.

 

That isn't a value judgement about keeping your disc menus in place, I'm just pointing out that the decision is utterly unrelated to the size of collection or choice of screen.  The only reason to do that is because you like the movie menus.

 

Personally I find it akin to insisting on a rewind simulator because you miss your tapes

[One2Go 98]

That isn't a value judgement about keeping your disc menus in place, I'm just pointing out that the decision is utterly unrelated to the size of collection or choice of screen.  The only reason to do that is because you like the movie menus.

 

Personally I find it akin to insisting on a rewind simulator because you miss your tapes

 

If your decision to go the Make MKV route is because you want to save disc space then either you have a hoarding problem or you hate to delete content. I do prune my media collection regularly especially TV Shows. Timeless just got deleted because it ended. Plus we all know we still have unwatched content that would last us until the day we die another good starting point with housekeeping.

 

I noticed you avoided being specific and citing examples but as mentioned by Spaceboy earlier in this thread it takes more time upfront to rip the main part plus extras. So you rip the extras and then good luck with finding the images and metadata from the online sources. The Ultimate Matrix Collection, each Star Wars movie so far has had a Blu-ray Bonus disc so does Lawrence of Arabia good luck with getting those integrated in your collection with decent images and metadata. Rip the disc and you are done with it, everything in one place and you will always find the images and meta data for the main content, but you know the extras are in the same location. All that is left is, find a decent software player PDVD was on sale for $30 before their next version rollout.

 

Bridge of Spies has some excellent extras on it that enhance that whole Cold War drama, now to find the needed images and metadata is a total waste of time when everything could be in one entry point. So, not the liking of menus but time is what drives me to be using full discs like Bridge of Spies. The tape analogy is not very good, but you strike me as the person that likes to work under the hood of a car while I like to be the person driving the car

[One2Go 98]

Since dedicated devices and web access account for the overwhelming amount of use,  Emby needs to focus on these devices and the formats they can play.  The formats talked about in this thread don't really fit the modern equipment used or the way people are consuming media anymore.  Sure there ARE die-hards still doing this but it's far less common then it used to be.

 

If you do as Spaceboy mentioned and rip the content to MKVs then you could still use this content in the "new" way of accessing Emby and have it available everywhere.  When you need DISC MENU access you limit yourself big time.  You might be able to use this content but you won't be able to effectively share it with anyone else as they won't be able to play it.

In all my postings I have always stated that those with home theaters are in a minority. The way media is consumed today is not to my liking and my retina would feel violated by watching bitstarved content unless it is on a mobile device were blocking and banding can only be noticed with a magnifying glass. For the devs of EMBY it is important because it generates revenue. Modern or NEW does not mean necessarily better. I know you share your content with others not in your home I share my content ONLY with those in my home.

 

For different users there are different preferences of how we want to experience our entertainment. Again I fully understand being in the minority here, but I want my HD or UHD content with HD Audio and again that is a format preferred by a minority of users. I seriously doubt people will store a 5GB DTS-MA audio track when they can get by with a fraction of that size in a different format, again that is not me. But for the devs here they need to find a way on how to feed their families.

 

The good thing is, for me Emby has reached a stage that it displays my media in a way I like it, easy to navigate and fast, problem free except when updating to version 4.*   and the only thing I have to watch out for now is, be careful with the next update because it may break what is working now. Bottom line "One's man's pleasure is another's pain" BDs & UHDs for me are a pleasure but for the MakeMKV crowd here they are a pain.

[Spaceboy 2494]

I apologize if I have missed the statements by the developers. Have Emby developers officially stated somewhere that they don't support BDMV file stacking? Or something else other than what I asked in the original post? Please clarify if possible, thanks.

 

the lead dev is telling you to convert to mkv. here is some water horsey, would you like a drink?

[Spaceboy 2494]

If your decision to go the Make MKV route is because you want to save disc space then either you have a hoarding problem or you hate to delete content. I do prune my media collection regularly especially TV Shows. Timeless just got deleted because it ended. Plus we all know we still have unwatched content that would last us until the day we die another good starting point with housekeeping.

 

I noticed you avoided being specific and citing examples but as mentioned by Spaceboy earlier in this thread it takes more time upfront to rip the main part plus extras. So you rip the extras and then good luck with finding the images and metadata from the online sources. The Ultimate Matrix Collection, each Star Wars movie so far has had a Blu-ray Bonus disc so does Lawrence of Arabia good luck with getting those integrated in your collection with decent images and metadata. Rip the disc and you are done with it, everything in one place and you will always find the images and meta data for the main content, but you know the extras are in the same location. All that is left is, find a decent software player PDVD was on sale for $30 before their next version rollout.

 

Bridge of Spies has some excellent extras on it that enhance that whole Cold War drama, now to find the needed images and metadata is a total waste of time when everything could be in one entry point. So, not the liking of menus but time is what drives me to be using full discs like Bridge of Spies. The tape analogy is not very good, but you strike me as the person that likes to work under the hood of a car while I like to be the person driving the car

no!!! the decision to go the mkv route is because its better supported!!! as deathsquirrel says, we have all been you. we have all had the same opinions. but eventually, common sense gets the better of you. common sense and annoyance at things not working like you are now. 

 

your final analogy is amusing because you are the one complaining and we are the ones watching our media with extras. maybe not every single one but sometimes you have to be pragmatic. i think a better analogy would be you are driving a classic car that gives you the full driving experience, however it requires constant maintenance. we have spent our time designing a car that needs zero maintenance. we are driving and you are maintaining.

 

edit to add, also you are totally wrong on your assumptions regarding how we consume our content. i always get the best quality rips for every single movie i have. always leave every audio track and every sub track. i can't easily see file sizes in emby but i know most of my UHD content is between 50-100Gb per movie.

 

anyway thats my last word on the topic, when the lead dev of the project tells you to convert to mkv for the best experience and you still push back there really isnt any more i can say

Edited January 25, 2019 by Spaceboy

[CBers 6771]

here is some water horsey, would you like a drink?

 

:D :D

[CBers 6771]

the decision to go the mkv route is because its better supported!!! as deathsquirrel says, we have all been you. we have all had the same opinions. but eventually, common sense gets the better of you. common sense and annoyance at things not working like you are now. 

 

Hear, hear !!

[Carlo 4330]

Here is what I learned over time.  I too originally wanted full descriptions (meta-data) and posters for my extras I ripped.  This honestly seems like a legit request.

 

But as time went by I found that I really didn't need it or really want to spend the time trying to match this info. Then for a bit I would take a screen shot of the disc on my PC and copy the descriptions right off the disc so I could use that info (self supplied meta-data) for the ripped extra.

 

As time went by I stopped doing this as well.  I found I really didn't need that info and would just name the rip correctly with a descriptive name to let me know what it was.  Now I hardly bother with this content.  Take STAR WARS The Complete Saga Episodes 1 - 6 bundle as an example:

 

"Star Wars: The Complete Saga will feature all six live-action Star Wars feature films utilizing the highest possible picture and audio presentation. This set contains 12 Discs with all six movies. More than 40 HOURS of EXTRAS! Multi Angle Story. Board Deleted / Extended Scenes. Audio Commentary with George Lucas and crew. Cast and Crew interviews. Plus MUCH MORE."

 

40 hours of media???  That now seems like a lot of "fluff" to me and I now question if I want to "give up" 40 hours worth of recording space to all these extras that would likely never get played and could be used for other actual movies.

 

What I do now is require myself to actually watch all this bonus material, any content I think deems being ripped will get ripped.  Anything not worthy stays on the disc.

 

My gut feeling (could be totally wrong) is that keeping everything from the disc is something a lot of people want to do when they have a small collection or when just getting started with a Media Server and becomes less and less important as time goes by and their library increases in size.  I've got so much content I could watch it constantly the rest of my life and not finish it without any extras.

 

Now what I do from time to time is pull out a disk and look at the bonus content.  I might pick some bloopers from The Big Bang Theory and rip that.  I'll then add it to a featured library I use just for this that holds maybe 10 to 15 of these. I find users will enjoy these as I've hand selected them.  As I add new ones I'll then move the old ones out to the movie/show.  For example the bloopers will get moved to The Big Bang Theory proper season (or Season 0) since I've taken the time to rip it.

 

I'm surely not down playing the request at all since it is legit.  But it's just not the way the majority of people use Media Servers these days.  That limits the appeal across the board for this type of thing.  With limited use (and client ability to do this) it makes support of this hard to justify for development when there are other outstanding requests that have far greater use for all users. 

[One2Go 98]

@@cayars My approach is very similar and did the same thing with BBT except kept it on the disc rather then ripping. Also do the same thing with Suits kept the discs rather then ripping. All those Bonus discs of SW are on the top of the list to be deleted should I need space.

 

Been in the media server admin for almost 10 years and got into a routine that is a compromise of time saving vs. quality. For this reason I changed my TV watching habit. With the bitstarved content available these days from Amazon I stopped watching the shows as they aired and now wait for the Blu-ray releases and if they are not released since I am on the premier TV tracker wait until a release is being posted from a different country with higher bitrates. Also I rip the BD add it to the new content then watch it and decide what to do with it, keep the main part, delete or keep the BD.

 

The change in consumption of media is at the root of the crap that is being served these days in WebDL or WebRip format. The crowd that I hang out with on-line modify their homes to create Home theaters and invest anywhere from 10k to 50k in playback equipment plus run racks of server equipment in different rooms. Surely this is a vast minority but still an organizing and presentation solution is required to put this through the Marantz PJs onto the screen and listening to the Atmos sound track from the AV amps.

 

Thanks for sharing your take and experience on running a media server.

Edited January 25, 2019 by One2Go

[Carlo 4330]

The crowd that I hang out with on-line modify their homes to create Home theaters and invest anywhere from 10k to 50k in playback equipment plus run racks of server equipment in different rooms. Surely this is a vast minority but still an organizing and presentation solution is required to put this through the Marantz PJs onto the screen and listening to the Atmos sound track from the AV amps.

Tell me about the $.  I've got that much invested in just drives, never mind the big screen TVs, projectors, servers or sound systems.

I'd be afraid to add it up (might cry) LOL

[CBers 6771]

The crowd that I hang out with on-line modify their homes to create Home theaters and invest anywhere from 10k to 50k in playback equipment plus run racks of server equipment in different rooms. Surely this is a vast minority but still an organizing and presentation solution is required to put this through the Marantz PJs onto the screen and listening to the Atmos sound track from the AV amps.

Tell me about the $.  I've got that much invested in just drives, never mind the big screen TVs, projectors, servers or sound systems.

I'd be afraid to add it up (might cry) LOL

Sounds to me that some people have "more money than sense" :D

[Deathsquirrel 741]

If your decision to go the Make MKV route is because you want to save disc space then either you have a hoarding problem or you hate to delete content. I do prune my media collection regularly especially TV Shows. Timeless just got deleted because it ended. Plus we all know we still have unwatched content that would last us until the day we die another good starting point with housekeeping.

 

It's based on two things:

 

1) Siting through unskippable bullshit at the start of my movies is an affront to my sense of ownership.

2) Most disc menus are freaking awful from a usability standpoint.

[One2Go 98]

It's based on two things:

 

1) Siting through unskippable bullshit at the start of my movies is an affront to my sense of ownership.

2) Most disc menus are freaking awful from a usability standpoint.

Agree with the first one on your list and the way I solved it find the offending clips like FBI warning, new releases. Then I delete them and replace them with identically named blank m2ts files that are a few seconds long and it automatically skips the parts that I agree are an insult to owners. I have several different formats of those little suckers.

Don't have a problem with the disc menus pretty much standard plus I use a Harmony One remote so just pressing of arrows plus I have a few macros assigned to single buttons like Alt-F4.

[Carlo 4330]

 

Sounds to me that some people have "more money than sense" :D

 

Nah, got to have lots of equipment.  Otherwise what would guests watch in the RV, Sailboat or Plane?  LOL

[One2Go 98]

Didn't really want to answer @@CBers comment "Sounds to me that some people have more money than sense" as it sounds to me a bit of wish I could splash that kind of dough. After spending decades working for the man what are you going to do with your money? Can't think of a better cause then spending it on your own big boys toys, relax and enjoy the remainder years of your life as you entertain those that are close to you.

Edited January 26, 2019 by One2Go