Can't Direct Play and Transcode the Same Channel (HDHomerun)?!?!?!

[troyhough 57]

Hi @@Luke, I ran into this issue again. Wife is Direct Playing a HDHR local OTA channel on the home network @ about 15Mbps. I tried to watch the same channel while running errands and my phone is set to 3Mbps while on mobile. It would not play the channel, skip, burp, pause, etc because the channel is being watched back at home (@ 15Mbps) while there are 3 open HDHR tuner slots available.

 

Is a fix in the works?

 

Thanks

[Luke 37071]

Yes we are looking into it, thanks.

[troyhough 57]

Ok thanks @@Luke

[troyhough 57]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:12 PM, Luke said:

Thanks for the feedback.

@Luke I am still having this issue. Tried watching a football game yesterday using the Emby Android mobile app on my phone and it wouldn't play. Settings were to transcode at 3MB but it wouldn't play (I was in a poor service area). I had to think about it for a minute so I checked the dashboard. Well my Dad was watching the same channel (Direct Play) so Emby on my phone would not attempt to Transcode the channel and play it, only Direct Play. As you know the MPEGTS streams on some channels have a bitrate of 20+ Mbps.

This sucks since I have 4 tuners and 3 were sitting there unused but I couldn't use them in this situation. I am adding another 4 this week (HDHR Quatro 4K) so will have 8 total available by the end of the week.

Is this a Emby bug or a HDHR bug/limitation?

Thanks

Edited October 4, 2020 by troyhough

[Luke 37071]

Server log?

[troyhough 57]

2 minutes ago, Luke said:

Server log?

I already sent them to you 21 months ago regarding this exact issue (look at the first couple posts). Do you really need them again?

[Luke 37071]

It would actually be helpful yes to see the latest state of affairs with the new server. Thanks.

[troyhough 57]

2 hours ago, Luke said:

It would actually be helpful yes to see the latest state of affairs with the new server. Thanks.

Ok see attached. I didn't restart the server before I just ran the test. Let me know if I can be of any more help. Thanks

embyserver.txt

[troyhough 57]

Still seems to be acting exactly the same after all this time. I notice if I am Direct Playing something, then play the same channel on a emby web browser it will transcode it for the web browser client without using an additional tuner.

If I am Direct Playing something then use the Emby Android app for the same channel, it will not use the app's transcode settings and instead try to Direct Play it. This is not what people want when 1) they have a limited data plan or 2) in a bad data area and don't want to deal with constant pausing/skips.

I would prefer it to use the client player settings *always* and transcode like you are asking it to, especially when only 1 of 4 tuner slots are being used. Although like I pointed out in the first paragraph, it might even be able to do it without using an additional tuner which would be even better, but not a deal breaker.

Edited December 20, 2020 by troyhough

[Carlo 4330]

Hi @troyhough

So it's only using one stream from the "tuner" which is good.

We need more info for the Android App.  Why is it wrong in your opinion? What "transcode settings" are you referring to for the app.  Unless I misread what you said, there are no transcode setting only bitrate and audio options.  Since it's always better to direct play or stream vs transcode unless you have bitate issue, I fail to see the problem based on what you said thus far.

People DO WANT direct plat as often as possible as it's the best for quality and resources. followed by remux then transcode which is least desirable.

Please show us why you think the app isn't doing the right thing. 

[troyhough 57]

18 hours ago, cayars said:

Hi @troyhough

So it's only using one stream from the "tuner" which is good.

We need more info for the Android App.  Why is it wrong in your opinion? What "transcode settings" are you referring to for the app.  Unless I misread what you said, there are no transcode setting only bitrate and audio options.  Since it's always better to direct play or stream vs transcode unless you have bitate issue, I fail to see the problem based on what you said thus far.

People DO WANT direct plat as often as possible as it's the best for quality and resources. followed by remux then transcode which is least desirable.

Please show us why you think the app isn't doing the right thing. 

@cayars

Thanks for the reply.

I agree that Direct Playing should always be a top priority whenever possible (if it fits the requested parameters), HOWEVER when you specify in the app/client that you want a specific Internet Video Quality, Emby should provide you with what you specify.

For example, when tuning a station from my HDHR, it is sending out a MPEGTS stream (when direct playing) @ ~12-15Mbps. Some people just don't have that kind of speed sometimes in a specific area (maybe rural, maybe in a subway, maybe at the zoo, maybe at the Casino, etc, etc OR their provider throttles (very often!) the streaming data to maybe 2 or 3 or 5 or 10Mb max, or maybe they simply are on a paid per MB data plan and don't want to chew up that much data. I set my mobile quality to 3Mb so whether or not someone else is tuned into that channel direct playing at that time, I want Emby to stream it out @ 3Mb as requested, not at the 12-15Mbps data rate that is required for Direct Play, for a multitude of reasons. If it can transcode to the data rate I request while not using an additional tuner, great. If an additional tuner is required to get the job done then so be it, I have several available and want them used up if needed.

I typically always want the highest quality and the ability/option to Direct Play, but NOT in this circumstance.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by troyhough

[Carlo 4330]

Oh, totally agree with you.  Of course Emby should only direct play if it fits the criteria.

[troyhough 57]

22 hours ago, cayars said:

Oh, totally agree with you.  Of course Emby should only direct play if it fits the criteria.

@cayarsIs this something you are able to "push" ahead to fix? I've noticed this issue going on 2 years. The vast majority of users, if not all, that would try Emby out would not know why playback problems caused by this were happening and chalk it up to "Emby sucks" and would go back to Plex or whatever else they are using. It seems like a priority issue that should be addressed immediately, just my opinion.

Thanks

[Carlo 4330]

It already does this.  It will try to direct play or direct stream everything if it can.  If there are bandwidth limits or codecs that aren't supported then it will do some form of transcoding.

But this is the nature of how Emby works already.

[troyhough 57]

4 minutes ago, cayars said:

It already does this.  It will try to direct play or direct stream everything if it can.  If there are bandwidth limits or codecs that aren't supported then it will do some form of transcoding.

But this is the nature of how Emby works already.

You are incorrect. If you set the Internet Video setting to 2Mb or 3Mb it will play back what you pick at that setting. Obviously if the source is encoded at a bitrate of that or lower, it will try to direct play it otherwise it will transcode it at the 2Mb or 3Mb that you chose.

However as I have been saying if a tuner is already being used and is Direct Playing for someone else, and you choose to also watch that station/tuner it will BYPASS your Internet video setting (which you set to 2 or 3Mb) and force it to you at the full quality 15Mb Direct play, whether you like it or not. You have no choice/option for a quality lower than 15Mb Direct Play.

This is a fatal flaw.

[Carlo 4330]

If you set an Internet Video bitrate that is lower than what it would direct play then it will transcode.  This isn't a flaw but a design.  That is the point of the internet bandwidth settings.  But it won't always force a transcode as it's a bit more complex and functional.  For example you can have multiple versions of a movies/shows.

For example you could have a 1080/8Mbs version and a 720/3Mbps version of a movie. When playing this back if there is no bandwidth limit or other constraints the 1080/8Mbps version will get used.  If you have a limit on the user as 5Mbps as an example then instead of transcoding the higher bitrate version the system will use the 720/3Mbps version and direct play/stream that version. It will fall back to transcoding if it has to.

If you have a tuner in use to ABC which is mpeg2 in the USA and playing this back in the house to an Android ATV app, it will likely direct play/stream and not transcode because the device can play the codecs and there isn't a bandwidth limit.  This stream for ABC will likely be 12 to 15Mbps or even slightly higher depending on what's playing. If you have a remote user that is also watching ABC via Emby then Emby will share the tuner, HOWEVER because you have a 5Mbps limit on this user the stream will get transcoded for that user down to the limit or under it. Again this is by design.  The 2nd user does not affect the 1st user, nor does the streaming rate of the 1st user affect the 2nd user.  It will NOT stream this as direct play as it's higher than the bandwidth setting.

I'm not sure how you performed your test but you should try it again.  If there was a bug like this it would show up all the time as many OTA broadcasts are over 10Mbps but many Emby Servers in the USA only have 10Mbps TOTAL upload bandwidth (Comcast/Xfinity for example) and these remote users would have this issue all the time.

[troyhough 57]

2 minutes ago, cayars said:

 

If you have a tuner in use to ABC which is mpeg2 in the USA and playing this back in the house to an Android ATV app, it will likely direct play/stream and not transcode because the device can play the codecs and there isn't a bandwidth limit.  This stream for ABC will likely be 12 to 15Mbps or even slightly higher depending on what's playing. If you have a remote user that is also watching ABC via Emby then Emby will share the tuner, HOWEVER because you have a 5Mbps limit on this user the stream will get transcoded for that user down to the limit or under it. Again this is by design.  The 2nd user does not affect the 1st user, nor does the streaming rate of the 1st user affect the 2nd user.  It will NOT stream this as direct play as it's higher than the bandwidth setting.

I'm not sure how you performed your test but you should try it again.  If there was a bug like this it would show up all the time as many OTA broadcasts are over 10Mbps but many Emby Servers in the USA only have 10Mbps TOTAL upload bandwidth (Comcast/Xfinity for example) and these remote users would have this issue all the time.

Would you like me to take a video and show you that what you are saying above is not how it is working? I have reproduced the issue a zillion times and can now. I am not trying to be annoying or a prick, just trying to be helpful and improve the experience for myself and many others that are not as savvy on how things work.

What you are saying above is not what is or has been working unfortunately. I wish it did!

[Carlo 4330]

I just tried this.  On my shield I started playing Dr. Phil.

I then turned off WIFI on my cell phone to force a remote session to take place.

I started playing the same channel, then went into quality and adjusted it down and this is what I get:

So my Shield which was started first is Direct Playing and my Cell phone is transcoding.

[Carlo 4330]

If you check the user in question are all of these enabled like this?

[troyhough 57]

2 hours ago, cayars said:

If you check the user in question are all of these enabled like this?

@cayarsJust checked and all boxes were checked for all users.

[troyhough 57]

2 hours ago, cayars said:

I just tried this.  On my shield I started playing Dr. Phil.

I then turned off WIFI on my cell phone to force a remote session to take place.

I started playing the same channel, then went into quality and adjusted it down and this is what I get:

So my Shield which was started first is Direct Playing and my Cell phone is transcoding.

@cayars

Ok so I had a user play his Shield (off the LAN and in a different State) he tuned ABC (Direct Play). I turned WiFi off on my phone, launched the Android app (3.1.73) and had Internet Quality set to 3Mb. It Direct Played, just as I've been saying. I clicked the gear and changed to 2Mb, it continued to only DIrect Play.

So I thought well you said you played your Shield locally so I tuned MY Shield here to a different channel (PBS) and it Direct Played on the LAN. I took my cell with WiFi still off and tuned to the same channel (PBS) and had the exact same results. It Direct Played PBS even at Playback set to 3Mb. I hit the gear and changed it again to 2Mb and it CONTINUED to Direct Play.

FYI ABC bitrate with Direct Play is 20.4Mb and PBS bitrate with Direct Play is 8.2Mb

So now that I have eliminated the Shield LAN and Non-LAN options, let's move to tuner.... which tuner are you using? HDHomerun??? And are you 100% sure you are using the Android App and not the Web App (which always transcodes MPEGTS files)??????

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by troyhough

[Carlo 4330]

I think I was able to reproduce this a bit ago, but need to test some more but right now a family member is playing a Christmas movie remotely and using up much of my bandwidth.

Can you try something and set a bandwidth limit on the user as 3 or 4 Mbps and try again and let me know if that forces transcode or not.

[troyhough 57]

2 hours ago, cayars said:

I think I was able to reproduce this a bit ago, but need to test some more but right now a family member is playing a Christmas movie remotely and using up much of my bandwidth.

Can you try something and set a bandwidth limit on the user as 3 or 4 Mbps and try again and let me know if that forces transcode or not.

Test A

I set the limit to 1.5 for test user.

Used my Shield on LAN to Direct Play channel 10.1

set phone to wifi off

set playback quality to 3Mb. played 10.1 on Android app and it Direct Plays.

set playback quality to 1Mb. played 10.1 on Android app and it Direct Plays.

 

Test B

i kept limit to 1.5 for test user

Didn't use LAN Shield to play anything (no tuners in use)

set phone to Wifi off

set playback quality to 3Mb. played 10.1 on Android app and it played at 1.5Mb (user limit works!)

set playback quality to 1Mb. played 10.1 on Android app and it played at 1Mb (because requested rate was lower than user limit) - so this works too!

Edited December 23, 2020 by troyhough

[troyhough 57]

oops delete

Edited December 23, 2020 by troyhough

[Carlo 4330]

@Lukethis is a bug where user bitrate set on the client or on the server are being ignored and the wrong format is being sent to clients.

I can reproduce this on .10 beta Server and the Emby Client for Android.

Edited December 23, 2020 by cayars