Option for HDR Tone Map luminance value setting

[Guest asrequested]

But you shouldn't have your desktop in HDR all the time. That will alter SDR coloring. Nvidia now has dynamic switching, which madVR is taking advantage of, and it works pretty well. But having to sit through the process of it doing that, really sucks. Windows needs to be able to do that, natively. I just don't see that happening. Us HTPC guys are in the minority. As for a unified workflow. I don't see that ever coming close to happening, at least not with Windows being part of it. I honestly think that Microsoft might actually ditch it, like they ditched Media Center. They've already dialed it back, by restricting how it can be enabled. Insisting that HDR can only be enabled in full screen is insane. I want HDR in a window without changing my desktop. I never want to have to wait for my display to switch to HDR, which has to happen. Most viewing is SDR, so prioritizing HDR would be daft. Having said that, once hlg takes hold, maybe an argument can be made. But right now, how much of the stuff we watch is HDR? Very little. Sacrifing the 90% for the 10% just doesn't make sense.

 

But mpv does have an open project to incorporate passthrough. Though I don't think it's a high priority for them.

[howzz1854 18]

maybe I should do a quick write-up for the folks who want to setup passthrough with external player with MadVR. it works quite well. 

[Guest asrequested]

maybe I should do a quick write-up for the folks who want to setup passthrough with external player with MadVR. it works quite well.

That might be good. A 'How to' has been suggested/asked for. I would have written one, but I figured others would have done a better job, as they have more experience with all the different caveats. You'll probably need to add the differences between using an Nvidia GPU and Intel. It's only possible on a NUC/mini PC, unless you're happy with tone mapping, which defeats the purpose. Motherboards with an HDMI 2.0 are expensive and limited.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Doofus

[Jdiesel 1114]

maybe I should do a quick write-up for the folks who want to setup passthrough with external player with MadVR. it works quite well. 

 

One of the best things about using MPC-HC and madVR is that you can already follow one of the many guides out there on how to setup madVR with MPC-HC. All you need to do to get it working with ET is add the path to the MPC=HC executable and {path} to the arguments and your are good to go. The problem with writting any guide for madVR is that the development moves so quick. Recommended scalers and settings from 6-12 months ago are already obsolete, GPU drivers releases can mess with things too. The Doom9 thread while great for information is a pain in the ass to navigate. 

 

There was a thread or FR floating around were some of us MPC-HC users were asking for some tie in with the MPC-HC api so we could get some basic features like playback state tracking integrated with Emby

Edited January 2, 2019 by Jdiesel

[Guest asrequested]

One of my biggest 'beefs' with passthrough is that it has to use d3d swapchains, and the d3d API. d3d blows, I try to avoid it if I can.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Doofus

[Guest asrequested]

For those interested, here's the latest test build. I've changed the tone mapping algorithm to the suggested new default. Same as before, just unzip it anywhere, double click the mpv.exe and drag 'n' drop you movie on it. 

[PrincessClevage 173]

maybe I should do a quick write-up for the folks who want to setup passthrough with external player with MadVR. it works quite well.

With your experience and knowledge this would be appreciated!

[PrincessClevage 173]

For those interested, here's the latest test build. I've changed the tone mapping algorithm to the suggested new default. Same as before, just unzip it anywhere, double click the mpv.exe and drag 'n' drop you movie on it.

can we just overwrite the mpv player in the ET app directory with the version you have posted?

[Guest asrequested]

can we just overwrite the mpv player in the ET app directory with the version you have posted?

You can, but I don't suggest that you do. Try testing it as a standalone. Changes are still being made.

[Guest asrequested]

Ok, here it is again, with a little more experimentation. The defaults are probably going to be;

hdr-compute-peak=auto
tone-mapping=mobius

I find that too bright, but on an SDR uncalibrated display it will probably look ok. On my display, my SDR nits are around 360, and mobius is too bright.

 

It looks like this:

 

 

Turning off peak compute, using hable and adjusting the desaturation, I come to an image much closer to what I see with HDR passthrough.

hdr-compute-peak=no
tone-mapping=hable
tone-mapping-desaturate=1.8

This is what I get with that config

 

At this point, I get more detail from the bright parts.

 

The desaturation should probably not be used for general purpose. So with hable, it will look like this

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Doofus

[howzz1854 18]

i just tested the new release posted above. although it's looking a lot better than before (thank you!), highlights are still being clipped. if you look at the chess guy again, the highlights on both of his shoulder top and his nose are all present in MadVR (right), but missing in MPV (left). with the MPV the nose highlight is clearly clipped.

 

also the color is also more intensified in this latest release of MPV, which i won't really knock it, since i don't think there's a color mapping algorithm out there now that correctly maps the saturation back into Rec 709. both MPV and MadVR have similar saturation tone map delta error, which is to say, aside from 100% saturation, anything below are quite poor in terms of accuracy. i'll post a comparison CIE graph of the full saturation measurement in another post below, which i was able to measure over the weekend. 

 

speaking of post, i'll get that quick guide up on a new thread for people who want to setup external MadVR playback. lots to do.

[howzz1854 18]

also, can something be done about the sharpness? not sure if this is a FFmpeg problem or MPV problem. 

 

here is a comparison of the sharpness difference. i won't tell you which one is which. but you can clearly tell that left side of her cheek (her left, not ours) skin texture bump is missing, and her peacock collar fabric texture is missing too, but present in the other picture. you can download both pictures and switch back and forth and compare. i spot the sharpness difference in 1080P SDR content as well. 

[howzz1854 18]

for those interested in seeing the saturation full sweep measurement for both MPV and MadVR. Prior to this latest release, they both have very very similar saturation readings, which is to say, anything below 100% saturation is very poor in terms of accuracy. with this latest release, i haven't done the measurement yet, i can only guess that the deviation is probably going to be greater. but like i said, i am not going to knock mpv for this, since there isn't a saturation tone map algorithm out there now that i know of that correctly maps Rec 2020 back to Rec 709 with great level of accuracy. so this is more of an interesting exercise anyway. 

 

but with grey scale, it's definitely paramount to have all the highlight and shadow mapped correctly, so viewer is able to see all the details without clipping. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest asrequested]

Take a look at my last post. You'll see better images than what you got. And try again with this version. This is with hable, no peak detection and using nvdec for hwdec, which will use opengl api instead of crappy d3d11

Edited January 4, 2019 by Doofus

[Guest asrequested]

And FYI, with what you think is clipping with the blue cape, is exactly how it looks if you pass the metadata to your display and not tone mapped. madVR is toning it down in its mapping. How it looks in mpv is exactly how it looks when I watch that in madvr with passthrough (except for sheer brightness of the LEDs).  I took a pic

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Doofus

[Guest asrequested]

At this point, I can confidently say that mpv has decisively passed madVR's tone mapping. 

[howzz1854 18]

i don't know about your TV's HDR mode, but i calibrated my HDR mode, albeit not to perfection, since my set isn't particular that high end. but the highlight is there. 

 

there's no way for me to screen grab in HDR, but here is a cell phone picture attached. you can clearly see that the highlights on shoulders and nose are clearly there. but are lost in MPV. 

 

and this is verified previously in my Luminance curve measurement that everything above 80% IRV in MPV is Clipped. so it's lost. in MadVR is rolled off from 80% to 100%, so the information is there, although 90% to 100% is almost a flat line. 

 

[howzz1854 18]

here is the link to a quick guide to setup HDR passthrough as promised. 

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/67421-how-to-setup-hdr-meta-passthrough-with-external-madvr/

 

since i don't have the access to post it under Guides section. someone will have to move it. 

[howzz1854 18]

here is yet another comparison of your latest release of hable version. you're definitely getting closer each step of the way. 

 

i would prefer to not do this each time. this could go on forever. but keep up the good work. i have no doubt you and the devs will eventually get it. meanwhile i have MPC-HC setup with MadVR nicely. i can enjoy my movies.

Edited January 4, 2019 by howzz1854

[Guest asrequested]

Your picture

 

 

mpv

 

You can't match the physical brightness of the LEDs with a screenshot, other than that, what's different?

Edited January 4, 2019 by Doofus

[Guest asrequested]

As far as tone mapping is concerned, mpv is now way ahead. What madvr does with the chess video is dumb it down. madvr can suck my big toe at this point, and trim the nail while it's there. I've been following what haasn has been doing. That guy is a rock star. He corrected madshi when he posted an mpv issue. Once this all gets released (and haasn is still fine tuning), mpv will be the front runner. 

[Guest asrequested]

Blue cape moment. madVR tone mapping and mpv tone mapping.

 

madVR

 

mpv

[Guest asrequested]

Ha! Got a little carried away there. Apologies