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Artist name is initials issue


RedStripe
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Server Version 3.0.5211.41935

Issue with artist/people who go by initials...for example "T.I." or "B.G."

There is already a naming issue regading directory naming...(i.e., directory name cannot end with a period; therefore, I have just dropped the last period, so "T.I." becomes directory name "T.I")...do you have better solution?

I have recently noticed that these initialed names are being displayed (in MB and MBC) as the first initial only so..."T.I." ( directory name "T.I") becomes artist name "T" in MB and MBC.

Editing and Saving the "Name" field for the Artist (in MB) doesn't seem to work (i.e., although edited and saved...the value does not change!?)

NOTE: There is no artist.xml in the root directories for these "initialed artists". Refreshing (tried refreshing "Artist" and "Music") and saving changes does not create the requisite .xml. (anyway...can't send you respective artist.xml....can't create one!...is this helpful in isolating what the issue might be?)

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Possibly related issue... MB3 has problems with an artist such as K. D. Lang. Even though the directory name doesn't end with a period, MB3 does not parse things correctly:

 

5346987458048_MB309.png

 

5346989481e63_MB310.png

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Yeah, in Windows (and maybe other files systems too) anything after the last '.' in a file name is not a part of the file name - it is an extension denoting the type of the file (or folder).

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We might be able to solve these issues (and maybe a few others) by salting these names with the type of person or something.  Something like:

 

"K.D. Lang" is saved into a folder named "K.D. Lang type.MusicArtist" (the extra word "type" handles the issue where the name ends in a '.')

 

That would fix all the '.' related issues I think and allow us to have multiple K.D. Langs.  HOWEVER, this would mean all people would have to be re-done and/or we'd have to write conversion routines.  It would also be incompatible with 3rd party programs (unless we could get them on board with the naming convention).

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@@RedStripe Not sure what is different, but I was able to get T.I. to display properly by editing in the web client. The folder T.I also has an artist.xml.  I was able to get k.d. lang, B.B. King, and others to work also by doing this.  I also noticed it says the folder is "T.I." though it really isn't because of Windows limitation.

 

5346a439130e7_TI.jpg

5346a3f26c316_Untitled.jpg

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Yes, in the IBN hierarchy, MB3 seems able to create a folder called "K. D. Lang" (without the quotes) quite happily, but throws a fit when it comes across a folder with the same name in a Music media hierarchy... 

 

I have an entry for K.D. Lang under Artist created by MB3, but under Album Artist, it's just k.d

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Yeah, in Windows (and maybe other files systems too) anything after the last '.' in a file name is not a part of the file name - it is an extension denoting the type of the file (or folder).

 

This is true for files, but is it really also true for folders? If so, then perhaps a workaround would be to rename my k.d. Lang folder in the Music media hierarchy to k.d. Lang. (with a trailing period)?

 

Oh, gawd, it's really true: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247(VS.85).aspx

Edited by gcoupe
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@gcoupe  Mine shows up right in Album Artist alos, but I went on a mission and edited every artist in the editor and my music tags to make it match musicbrainz awhile back.  Noticed yours still says "k.d".  So I probably changed "k.d" to "k.d. lang" long time ago.  I just wanted to tell RS that he should be able to fix it manually to at least display correctly in Artist and Album Artist until it gets fixed in MediaBrowser

Edited by FrostByte
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Yes, manually editing these problem children with the editor should make them work properly.  It is just a file system issue.

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Yes, manually editing these problem children with the editor should make them work properly.  It is just a file system issue.

 

Except that I can't seem to make any manual edits stick. Despite the fact that I get an "Item saved" message, if I refresh the page, I see the original data... How do I fix this?

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@@gcoupe Try deleting the web link and try again.  It seems like whenever there is a link, even if the link is good, then whatever I input doesn't save.   Usually a little balloon pops up for a second saying it's an invalid link.  Once I deleted that link I was able to change the name to "k.d. lang"

Edited by FrostByte
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Nope, didn't work. I had that invalid link message as well. First time round I put in the complete URL (http://www.kdlang.com). Following your suggestion, I've tried deleting the web link and saving, but no joy - the edits don't get saved, even though I have a message saying "Item Saved". The Server is lying to me...

 

One thing I notice - you have a path with drive letters in it. All my paths are of the form \\Servername\\media\...

Edited by gcoupe
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Might be the path also, or a combination of the two.  It definitely didn't change with that link in there on mine either because that silly message

 

I also don't refresh after because it just brings the link back

Edited by FrostByte
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I don't refresh the metadata, but I do refresh the web page - and see the old info. Perhaps this is a server cache issue - how do I force the server to flush the cache and show me the edited information?

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After saving the name try hitting the Identify button instead.  If the musicbrainz id and name are correct it should find "k.d. lang" and just click on that.   Sometimes Identify works better than Refresh for me.  If all fails cheat and just change the line in artist.xml :)

 

  <LocalTitle>k.d. lang</LocalTitle>

 

I seem to be having some issues right now myself though with saving information using the editor and can't pin point it.  Just for giggles I tried changing something and then locking Name changes below in the metadata settings and it won't stay set and undoes my other change.

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We might be able to solve these issues (and maybe a few others) by salting these names with the type of person or something. Something like:

 

"K.D. Lang" is saved into a folder named "K.D. Lang type.MusicArtist" (the extra word "type" handles the issue where the name ends in a '.')

 

That would fix all the '.' related issues I think and allow us to have multiple K.D. Langs. HOWEVER, this would mean all people would have to be re-done and/or we'd have to write conversion routines. It would also be incompatible with 3rd party programs (unless we could get them on board with the naming convention).

@@ebr

 

Is it possible to use the id3 metadata derived from a child object in a sub folder (child album), as this is not susceptible to such filesystem limitations or compatability concerns, to identify the parent folder. 

Mb3 could distinguish organisational parent folders from album artist parent folders with a few algorithms.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84611964/WhatMusicFolder.vsd

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84611964/WhatMusicFolder.pdf

For 1st library scans or forced refreshes, mb3 could look at lowest level file system folders first to identify folders as albums by an album artist using id3 tags.

Once all lowest level folders are identified then the parent folder can be identified using ruleset above. Thus tags with their inherent flexibility are always the prefered method to search mbz.

 

If the metadata editor allowed editing of this auto folder detection result, then anomalies if any could be sorted, otherwise manual creation of xml on filesystem could resolve in rare cases.

 

When mb3 detects a folder change/new album on filesystem, it could rerun its detection routine for the potentially affected folder tree and auto apply changes or ask the user to confirm.

 

It would be the users responsibility to tag their music correctly, but this is already the case. If enforced it would allow for more solid detection of filesystem folder objects from the id3 tags of sub objects.

 

Once a folder is detected as a type 'album artist folder', then the normal work starts to match with album artist on music brainz..this again could rely on similar checks against id3 tags of sub objects that originally identified the folder as an album artist folder.

 

1st order Folder detection types in music collection

Unscanned

Invalid

Organisational

Album

Album artist

 

 

Folder structure types (artist eq. Album artist)

[\org{0, n}][\artist\{0,1}][\org {0,2}]\album

 

Where org is an organisational folder.

 

Rules to users organising collections.

no album artist folders at same level or below album folders.

If 1 folder at a level is an album artist folder, then all folders at same level are album artist folders (rule isnt necessary given detection algorithm, but if no skin off anyones nose it may help)

bottom level folder must be of an album. If a bottom level folder has no music content then ignore / drop from any consideration, mark invalid.

Album folders can not be nested. So all folders above an album can only be organisational or album artists.

Album Artist folders can not be nested. So all parents of an album artist folder are organisational.

Maximum depth of organisational folders in album artist folder is 2.

Music collection would have to designated as content=music

 

Dont think this is draconian in any way..99% of user's collections would fit I think.

 

Current situation is that organisational folder are being incorrectly identified as album artists both in terms of metadata download and population of album artists view.

 

By using tags in sub folder album content . This will get around problem of album artist folder 'smiths, the' struggling to be detected as 'the smiths'. Indeed other intended matches will be easier, even with significant variance (when there is either 2 or more albums or a closeness match)..

 

More automated, Eg folder \music\kdlang\ can be identified as proper mbz value of 'k.d. lang' when the folder contains a couple of albums belonging to album artists tag 'k.d. lang' or when a closeness match can match.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Edited by ginjaninja
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What is is the expected behavior and use of the Name: field under on the
...\edititemmetadata.html?musicartist?... page?

I assumed it was an alias and only specified a display value and had no impact on the operation of MediaBrowser. However, as an example, it appears when attempting to alias T.I to T.I. it sporadically works. But when this aliasing is done, somehow/sometimes MediaBrowser sets the terminal folder name of Path: to "...\T.I." which of course is an invalid foldername ending in period. This seems to be where everything goes haywire and the artist.xml and Name: field become uneditable, the associated albums are not displayed under the Artist name but, the albums are present as orphans.

I have noticed that you can alias T.I to T.I. and all appears normal. But when you come back to the Artist at a later date the Path: has been changed and everything with that Artist is screwed. This seems to indicate that some backgrond process (perhaps library update) is setting the terminal folder name in the Path: under artist to the Name: value. If this is what is happening is it as designed or a bug?

Please offer some clarification on the purpose of the Name: field and what is valid and what is not.

Thanks

Edited by RedStripe
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What is is the expected behavior and use of the Name: field under on the

...\edititemmetadata.html?musicartist?... page?

 

I assumed it was an alias and only specified a display value and had no impact on the operation of MediaBrowser. However, as an example, it appears when attempting to alias T.I to T.I. it sporadically works. But when this aliasing is done, somehow/sometimes MediaBrowser sets the terminal folder name of Path: to "...\T.I." which of course is an invalid foldername ending in period. This seems to be where everything goes haywire and the artist.xml and Name: field become uneditable, the associated albums are not displayed under the Artist name but, the albums are present as orphans.

 

I have noticed that you can alias T.I to T.I. and all appears normal. But when you come back to the Artist at a later date the Path: has been changed and everything with that Artist is screwed. This seems to indicate that some backgrond process (perhaps library update) is setting the terminal folder name in the Path: under artist to the Name: value. If this is what is happening is it as designed or a bug?

 

Please offer some clarification on the purpose of the Name: field and what is valid and what is not.

 

Thanks

Whilst I dont know about name field I can tell you

1. There is no need to change name field.

2. You can review the logs to see the mbz and last.fm lookups mb3 is doing on your behalf.

 

I cleaned up my library by

1. Cleaning up my metadata using mp3tag/picard

2. In rare circumstances manually assigning mbz ids in dashboard.

 

I would correct the source metadata b4 changing name field.

 

 

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Edited by ginjaninja
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maybe replace periods with commas or some other character that does not appear in people names but can be in a folder name

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Well, I have to say that MB3 seems to be the odd one out here.

 

I've had a folder structure:

 

\Music

  \k.d. lang

    \album 1

    \album 2 etc.

 

for at least the past six years, and none of my other music players (WMP, MediaMonkey [both Windows Desktop and Windows App], Xbox Music, or WMC) have had any issue with the artist's folder name, yet MB3 does not like it at all. It creates an artist called k.d and an artist called k.d. lang.

 

Similarly, I have some recordings of poetry read by the author J.R.R. Tolkien, so MB3 has created an artist called J.R.R and an artist called J.R.R. Tolkien.

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Well, I have to say that MB3 seems to be the odd one out here.

 

I've had a folder structure:

 

\Music

\k.d. lang

\album 1

\album 2 etc.

 

for at least the past six years, and none of my other music players (WMP, MediaMonkey [both Windows Desktop and Windows App], Xbox Music, or WMC) have had any issue with the artist's folder name, yet MB3 does not like it at all. It creates an artist called k.d and an artist called k.d. lang.

 

Similarly, I have some recordings of poetry read by the author J.R.R. Tolkien, so MB3 has created an artist called J.R.R and an artist called J.R.R. Tolkien.

'J.r.r. Tolkien' is coming from folder name..more specifically mb3 had identified folder as artist and possibly created an xml on filesystem. Mb3 splits tags on various separators based on the output of ffprobe on a music file. If u have an artist 'j.r.r' it is not because of folder name but rather a (album) artist tag perhaps eg 'tolkien, J.R.R' (mb3 treats comma as separator).

 

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Edited by ginjaninja
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'J.r.r. Tolkien' is coming from folder name..more specifically mb3 had identified folder as artist and possibly created an xml on filesystem. Mb3 splits tags on various separators based on the output of ffprobe on a music file. If u have an artist 'j.r.r' it is not because of folder name but rather a (album) artist tag perhaps eg 'tolkien, J.R.R' (mb3 treats comma as separator).

 

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

Nope, (album) artist tag in this case does not have Last name, First name convention. I have just one MP3 file with the tag J.R.R. Tolkien (set for both Album Artist and Artist) in my entire collection. Only the Composer tag uses the Last name, First name convention in this case. Here's a screen shot of the metadata shown by MP3Tag:

 

5354e1c722c7f_MB313.png

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