Initial observations of Emby Native TV with HDHR Duals

[vaise 307]

This is my third or fourth attempt for this - beg delays and many releases between each attempts - in the hope that is all gets working fine.

 

Observations/Enancements :

 

1 - Need to be able to delete channels (I have used the parental controls channel exclude hack - but I have tons to set to this each time (I only use < 1/3of delivered channels) - My old HDHR's don't allow fav's to be set so all channels come in, and I have a ton of duplicate or local, or radio, or just rubbish.

2 - Guide Sort order - Only options are channel number and fav's.  Ideally, ability to renumber the channels (like nextPVR), or as you can rename them, be able to sort on name also

3 - Guide Size.  On NextPVR, I am able to resixe the guide to fit more channels on.  I have 17 visable - means no scrolling.  On emby guide, I have only 10 visable.  I dont want to scroll up/down when checking guides, so I find I have to exclude more channels to make this fit.  Maybe alternate layuots could help - i.e just the title in the guide, and the description in a box that changes ?

 

For reference -

 

We do not use this for liveTV ever, always just recording to watch later.  I check the guide once a week, add some new series recordings etc etc, all watched on the roku.

I have 6 tuners in total (3 x HDHR Duals).  We have multiple transmission channels fromthe same netword (eg 7HD, 7TWO, 7mate) so if I want to record all these three channels at the same time, it just uses one tuner on NextPVR.  As we have useless overuns here in australia, you need more tuners for when shows overun and you start something else on the next channel.

 

Testing :

 

I set 6 things to start recording at 1PM, two were from the same network so I expected 5 tuners in use.

Active Recordings in Emby show only two things recording, and the recording storage area also shows only two things.

Emby Server LiveTV section just shows two tuners, on the one HDHR device with 'watching'

 

In summary, something stopped the other HDHR's from firing off.

 

Server log attached.

 

As it is a quiet recording few days until Sunday night, I will leave this configured like this if you wish me to do any more testing.

 

Once these shows complete, I will do another test.

 

server-63653168984.txt

[vaise 307]

Thought I would try removing one of the HDHR duals - the one that is different to the other two - so now I have just two HDHR Dual EU models (hence 4 tuners).

Stopped and recordings, deleted, restarted the server.

Added 3 recordings from the guide to start at 14:30, two were from the same network and would have only used one tuner in NextPVR

Added 2 others to start about 10 minutes later.

 

Again only two things started, and it did not record the additional show from the same provider (10 and 11 should only used one tuner).

 

These are the same issues I had in the last round of tests - I will let these two complete to see if I can watch them.

 

Sounds to me like Emby will not use the additional tuners in my system.  

 

Logs attached.

 

server-63653178064.txt

[vaise 307]

Update - so I waited for those two shows to complete (becker and neibours).  Neighbours recording cant play (in anything, inc VLC media player) and becker seems almost corrupted - but that may be the channel it was no.  These are test recordings, nothing I actually want to watch.

 

Final thing to report - it does not seem to have 'let go' of the tuners - its a long time since the shows ended.  Emby console shows they as still recording, the LiveTV tab shows the two tuners are 'Watching', but there is nothing recording at all.

 

A restart of emby server did not free up these tuners ?  I actually had to power off and on the HDHR devices - something I have never done before.

Edited February 2, 2018 by vaise

[vaise 307]

Im going back to basics here - there was a new emby beta overnight, installed that.

Removed all bar one HDHR device.

Scheduled two shows from the same channel set to start at 11:30 - they should use just one tuner (as the same stream) - as per nextPVR.

Waited for 11:30.

Noticed the two recordings fire, can see them in emby console.

Unfortunately, it is using two tuners on the HDHR, not one like nextPVR would - as they are the same stream (photo below)  This on its own is enough for me to not progress with this as sometimes we have a load of recordings at once happening, with follow on's on different channels and due to overuns, we need lots of available tuners.  For example, on nextPVR, if I am recording channel 10 8pm till 9pm, then I have another recording on channel 10 from 9PM till 10PM, it will still record the extra 15 mins padding on the first show, and start a new one for the second show, but no new tuners would be required.  If that second is Channe 11 (on the same stream) then it will still use the single tuner.

Another example, we have ABC1, ABC2 and ABC3 channles, all on the same stream.  NextPVR will use just 1 tuners to record all three at the same time.  It seems like emby will not - and would in this case (as shown below) use 2 tuners, and not be able to record the third (I will be doing this test next now i have throttles emby to the one HDHR with 2 tuners in it).  :

 

 

log attached if this helps.

 

server-63653253250.txt

[vaise 307]

So, for my next test, I have the following guide recordings set (note - restarted Emby at 12:48 for clean logs) - you can see the screenshot below at the end of this post :

 

Channel 10 - 13:00

Channel 11 - 13:05

Note - Both 10 and 11 are from the same TV network stream - so should use the same single tuner (like nextPVR does)

Channel 2 - 13:00, then channel 2 at 13:10

Note - with the 15min padding, the show ending at 13:10 should continue, and the one staring at 13:10 on the same channle should not use a new tuner (same stream)

 

In the above situation, NextPVR would use just 2 tuners and have 4 recordings to watch. Two starting at 13:00, 2 starting at 13:10, and even tough there is an overlap due to padding, a new file will fire keeping the previous padding from the one before).

 

With the two tuners I have throttled Emby to use, we get these unacceptable results however :

 

At 13:00, channel 10 and ABC2 fire off on both tuners - Correct

At 13:05, channel 11 should have fired, and as it uses same stream as channel 10, should have used the same tuner that was in use for Channel 10 - it did not fire.

At 13:10, On same ABC2 channel, should start the next recording on the same tuner, while post padding the 15 minutes on the one before it.  Nothing happened.

 

Added screenshot below of the same two first shows at 13:00 recording only taken at 13:13.

 

I think this concludes my testing of the Emby LiveTV native recording with my HDHR Dual devices.  Unless anyone has anything I can do to fix these issues ?

 

I will leave this one HDHR attached to Emby, and leave the nextPVR plugin off for now, and just use the recorded TV folder view over the nextPVR stuff - in the hope that someone can fault find this issue.

 

Not much point adding the other tuners in until this same stream recording can be resolved.  Logs of this testing scenario attached.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

server-63653258921.txt

[vaise 307]

Finally, please see below how the the DVR system should work - in this case, I have set 4 recordings from 4 different channels at the same time, all channels are from the same TV network stream, hence the ONLY USE 1 TUNER.  If this was emby native, I would be only getting two recordings and using two tuners.

 

[vaise 307]

And now for the final nail in the Emby Live TV coffin, I used the emby console to stop recording of the shows it said were still recording, and the tuners both still say watching.  Had a look on the devices and sure enough, then both have lights on.

 

I am going to have to power them off and on to recover them, but here are some more logs if that helps.

 

 

server-63653258921.txt

[Luke 37259]

There's one defect here that is essentially the root of all of this and that is that for legacy tuners, when a device is completely booked it essentially creates a stall as opposed to realizing that it's booked and moving onto the next device.

 

This is resolved for the next release, thanks. For your first post, yes channel management is also about to be revamped and that should take care of all of that. Thanks.

[vaise 307]

Hi Luke,

 

Thanks for the info

By next release, do you mean next beta, or the next stable release.  If this is a short wait, i will leave an HDHR Dual tuner attached to emby and can test when this comes out.

If a long wait, I will move back to NextPVR and re-test in the future.

[Luke 37259]

next beta.

[vaise 307]

Great, I will wait then, and jump in and do the same tests on 1 tuner in there, then add the others and re-do the tests.

[jfath 2]

Thanks to vaise for the detailed testing and report.  Thanks to Luke for the quick response.

 

There are many good solutions for playing static files locally or remotely, but Emby is head and shoulders above the competition in handling live TV.  Continuing to add features and clean up small problems in this area is very much appreciated.

[vaise 307]

Hi Luke,

 

Thanks for the info

By next release, do you mean next beta, or the next stable release.  If this is a short wait, i will leave an HDHR Dual tuner attached to emby and can test when this comes out.

If a long wait, I will move back to NextPVR and re-test in the future.

 

Hi Luke, please dont forget about being able to use the one network stream for the same tuner for multiple channel recordings.  In my example (from nextPVR) about, I could be actually recording 8 shows all on the one tuner - if I set a back to back recording on those same 4 channels that use the same stream, then with the post padding of 15 minutes, I would have 8 recordings on one tuner. - its never happened before like that - but the technology is there to do it.

 

Without this, us poor folks in australia where almost every show overruns, would have to double our number of tuners.  We are at the mercy of the TV stattions and their flip/flapping of schedules.  Some live shows are the worst and often a 15 min pad is not enough!!!!!

 

Cheers.

[vaise 307]

@@Luke

 

I saw beta 10 has dropped.  i have installed it.

Is this the one that has the tuner locking fixes ?  should I setup for a re-test ?

 

Cheers.

[Luke 37259]

Yes please try it, thanks.

[vaise 307]

Cool - taken me 45 minutes to get re-setup - with all the channel exclude bits on all the channels etc - sooner you get the 'delete channels' the better,

Im now restarting the server and will re-do the tests.

 

Just added the one HDHR dual tuner for now (so 2 tuners).

 

I have set 2 things from the same channel (same network stream) to start at 16:00.   

 

ok - its 16:05, first test failed - both tuners are in use for the same network stream.  As shown in the above example from nextPVR - these two programs should never use a new tuner - they are on the same stream. 

 

I cant really move forward with this solution until this is fixed, so i dont think i will move on with other tests.

 

Logs attached if it helps :

 

Vaise. 

server-63653355617.txt

Edited February 4, 2018 by vaise

[vaise 307]

I have done some googling and apparently the official term is multiplex, or multiRec - That is what you need to get going.  It seems the others (nextpvr, MythTv) do it by default

 

This is for Australia and our multiple transmissions - I have 16 channels in my guide after getting rid of the radio, rubbish, duplicates etc - in theory, I can use just 5 tuners to record all 16 channels.  This was shown higher up in this thread where I recorded 4 channels on one tuner :

 

• ABC Multiplex (ABC, ABC2/ABC4, ABC3 and ABC News 24, radio)
• SBS Multiplex (SBS, SBS2, SBSHD, radio)
• Seven Multiplex (Seven (or Prime), 7Two, 7Mate)
• Ten Multiplex (Ten, Eleven, OneHD)
• Nine Multiplex (Nine (or Win), GO!, Gem)

[Luke 37259]

ok they are actually on different hdhr channels though so as of right now this is expected behavior. multirec would be a whole new feature to support.

[vaise 307]

Thats a pity - without this feature, to be sure I got everything, I would have to have two available tuners for every TV show I wish to record - due the the long running issues here - and that mean I could only record three things at the same time with the available 6 tuners I have.  While that would be fine for the vast majority of the time, there are those times when there is 4 things with back to back recordings, and we would not have control over which recording was cut off - hence the wife factor goes out the window.

 

I can say that since using NextPVR, we have never missed a single show since removing windows media centre many years ago.

 

I will add another tuner to emby now, and make sure it is using them all now, and that they release the HDHT tuners - I have till 6PM to play before all the recordings start tonight.

 

I will also have a close look at my guide, see how big of an issue this could be.

[Luke 37259]

Well no, 6 tuners would equal 6 simultaneous recordings.

 

Back to back recordings on the same channel with paddings won't be any problem.

[vaise 307]

ok they are actually on different hdhr channels though so as of right now this is expected behavior. multirec would be a whole new feature to support.

 

Hi Luke, can you explain this - as they are not actually on different HDHR channels - it is a feature of the DVR rather than the HDHR device.  NextPVR and MythTV somehow know that ABC1, ABC2 and ABC3 are all on the same multiplex, so they dont open a new tuner, and just record off the same multiplex.  There is just one light on a single HDHR device - so just one tuner in use.

[vaise 307]

OK - I am testing that now -

 

I have two HDHR's in there (so 4 tuners), at 5PM, for 30 minutes four channels will be recorded.  at 5:30, each of those 4 will record the show after that.  I am expecting emby to either not record the following shows as there are no tuners available as the first 4 are padding by 15 minutes.... if that is not the case and it will record the following programs without cutting off the padding froomthe ones before then that is a goer for me and I will continue testing everything.

[Luke 37259]

I see this in the log:

2018-02-04 16:00:00.318 Info App: Streaming Channel hdhr_23
2018-02-04 16:00:00.749 Info App: Streaming Channel hdhr_22

[vaise 307]

I dont know what to say on that - as you can see - nextPVR can record 4 channels on one tuner - it is emby opening up the seperate tuners.  There is info on nextPVR and MythTV that details all this stuff - they implemented it with a software release ages back - so I guess you just have to figure out what they did and dupe it ?

 

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/record_multiple_channels_from_one_multiplex

[vaise 307]

Looks like nextPVR added it may many releases ago - its always been there for me as my first nextPVR release was in the 3's. :

 

v1.3.7 available
- added ability to record multiple channels from the same multiplex with same digital card. This is only possible when you're using the 'TS Mux' option.