emveepee 112 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Yes I am talking about the change that now enables and really empowers internet server to server communication, using a protocol that was designed for LAN client server streaming. It is such an unusual use-case it just seems more likely to be a vehicle to try and circumvent or unknowingly bypass the NextPVR TOS. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37114 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Well we are happy to revert it but if you look at the code this is all it is: https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Emby.Plugins/commit/5f8549126218d70c4992a6a73e0cdd40be638d9b Judging from that it seems this problem could happen to someone on their local network in exactly the same fashion. For example - emby logs into next pvr, never refreshes the authentication token, then you come back 24 hours later and now things aren't working anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1561 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 What change are you referring to? The next pvr plugin obtains an authentication token from next pvr. What this change does is just refresh that info periodically to avoid being rejected with 401 responses. Is that what you're talking about or are we talking about something different? Unrelated, I have actually been thinking of turning the next pvr plugin into nothing more than a dumb tuner source, and having Emby manage the guide data + DVR features. The reasons are simply to reduce troubleshooting and not related to anything you said. Am hoping if you actually do this 'unrelated...' bit it doesn't, to use a technical term, bugger thing up for those of us i.e. me who use NPVR with a PCI-E DVB-S card. It works pretty well using the free (I presume OTA) TV guide I get in NZ. Obviously, if it improves things, I'm all for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven 136 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 @@Luke Nope. On the local network it's doing it automatically... https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?59442-SID-expires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37114 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ok, I didn't realize, sorry. Well whatever they'd like us to do is fine. If we have to revert the change then its' no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Yes I am talking about the change that now enables and really empowers internet server to server communication, using a protocol that was designed for LAN client server streaming. It is such an unusual use-case it just seems more likely to be a vehicle to try and circumvent or unknowingly bypass the NextPVR TOS. Martin Did you guys miss the part that NextPVR supports OVER THE INTERNET operation out of the box prior to any emby plugin changes. NEXTPVR HAS SUPPORTED INTERNET SERVER TO SERVER COMMUNICATION FOR A LONG TIME. This change just allows it to function using the emby plugin. AND AGAIN NEXTPVR OFFERS A COMMERCIAL LICENSE that i would purchase if trying to do something outside of the terms, there is no attempt to circumvent anything. It sounds like you are familiar with nextpvr possibly on the nextpvr team? is this not the case? I read the TOU and it does not say server to server communications is not allowed, because that is how next pvr works on a local network, server to server, weather or not those two servers are in the same building doesn't matter. Heck revert the change, I'll stand up a VPN connection between the two servers and I'm back where I am today. Its not about that though, I wanted to make this work natively as its supposed to. Hence the minor change to the plugin. So to be CLEAR no change has been made to allow some new internet streaming feature, this feature has always existed in the NextPVR software. Here are the NextPVR settings found in their documentation to allow this: <AllowRemoteTranscode>true</AllowRemoteTranscode> <AllowRemoteStreaming>true</AllowRemoteStreaming> Edited June 19, 2017 by pir8radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 What change are you referring to? The next pvr plugin obtains an authentication token from next pvr. What this change does is just refresh that info periodically to avoid being rejected with 401 responses. Is that what you're talking about or are we talking about something different? Unrelated, I have actually been thinking of turning the next pvr plugin into nothing more than a dumb tuner source, and having Emby manage the guide data + DVR features. The reasons are simply to reduce troubleshooting and not related to anything you said. YES please do make the change to make nextpvr a tuner source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) For me there is a big difference between a. connecting to my server remotely and and streaming my local and subscribed content which is how NextPVR clients work and b. setting up a tuner capture server in a remote location and bringing data into another location and watching it from there. Choice a is limited by the NextPVR TOS so you may not even be allowed to let friends or relatives connect remotely using Emby. On top of the TOS choice b may not even be legal or acceptable to cable companies. If this is confusing think of putting an HDHR into a friend's house to "share" their cable or perhaps for me as a Canadian getting access to American cable with a cable card (which we don't have) The reality is Emby is a transcoding server so it makes sense to use Emby for remote client streaming in option a with the servers on the same LAN I just cannot picture a standard situation where the NextPVR as a remote tuner makes sense in the context of license, copyright etc. There have been a few cases when home users configure a public route-able IP instead of private IP on the local LAN but this is pretty rare. I don't care if the change is reverted or not. It is like Kodi plugins, they can be used illegally but that doesn't mean plugins should be disabled. My point was more about making Emby users and developers aware of the NextPVR TOS and don't just ignore it. Martin Edited June 19, 2017 by emveepee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I just cannot picture a standard situation where the NextPVR as a remote tuner makes sense in the context of license, copyright etc. Good info, and thanks for taking the time to help explain things. In my case, and your quote above, this is a case where I do not think the TOS is being violated, see the below diagram.. The next pvr tuner is in my home, so is my viewing client.. I think you misread this whole thread thinking the tuner was remote, when the emby server is actually remote. The nextpvr server is in the same house as my client, but because I use emby clients (and I don't like the NPVR interfaces) it must pass over the internet. This is probably the situation you couldn't picture. Cable tv is not being "shared" or displayed from one area to another, it passes through a server that is at a different location which houses the transcoding processor. Live TV is only enabled for me on my emby server. I'm also fine with changing it back if that's what the developers deem necessary. I have a few solutions to my issue if this one is not acceptable. Edited June 19, 2017 by pir8radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub3 64 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Why would you do that? It seems odd you'd have Emby running remotely in a data center. Why wouldn't you just have it running in your home if your clients are also in your home? Passing the full bitrate stream across the Internet from NextPVR to Emby, just to transcode it and send it back, seems crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Why would you do that? It seems odd you'd have Emby running remotely in a data center. Why wouldn't you just have it running in your home if your clients are also in your home? Passing the full bitrate stream across the Internet from NextPVR to Emby, just to transcode it and send it back, seems crazy. It is. lol I moved the server out of my house a while back, I am paying the data center a little less than i was paying for the power and internet at my home, plus they keep it 68 degrees, on an UPS and generator, plus i get unlimited 2gbps internet there. I was paying comcast 50 extra dollars a month just for the unlimited option.. So i lowered my home internet speed, and ditched the unlimited saving me $70/month just doing that. Now with 2gbps and unlimited bandwidth I have no issues backing up my movie and music collection to Backblaze, as well as my streaming to my devices. Later I added the live TV tuner just to mess around with it, now that emby is getting better at live TV I'm actually starting to enjoy it. So, now I'm stuck with what I have which works, or I could move the tuner to the data center, but that is where the rules get grey. So this is why I would rather get what I have working. This is also why I previously asked if NextPVR could pre-transcode the stream to emby. Edited June 20, 2017 by pir8radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub3 64 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 This is also why I previously asked if NextPVR could pre-transcode the stream to emby. No, not at this stage. It currently sends the full bitrate stream to Emby, since it was assuming Emby would always be local, and that Emby would be retranscoding the stream anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 No, not at this stage. It currently sends the full bitrate stream to Emby, since it was assuming Emby would always be local, and that Emby would be retranscoding the stream anyway. I understand why everyone is riled up lol, I am probably the only case for this particular setup. I originally posted hoping someone knew the answers to my silly questions. Most of which you guys did. I don't want anyone to be penalized for helping me with my goofy setup, just because there were some misunderstandings happening. I do appreciate everyone's help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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