Streamlining my server. Upgrading thoughts, and what do you use for multiple rooms in your home?

[Jack Burton 94]

Currently, my setup works but I'm looking to really kick things up. My PC is a prebuilt Lenovo with intel core duo cpu and 4gigs of ram with 20 tb of external storage (really not anywhere near a desirable setup, but it works for now). PC is hooked directly into the main tv, and I'm a big fan of Emby Theatre. I was originally wanting to build a whole new monster PC, but money's tight, so now I'm thinking of starting cheaper and just building a new server, keeping it in a closet or something, and running all media through the network, with nothing connected directly to the server machine. So here's what I'm asking: as far as upgrading or building, what do you guys recommend for specs, best bang for the buck? I don't need a new PC for gaming (like originally planned), just more focused on a server that will have no issues transmitting to 4 or 5 machines/tvs/users simultaneously, with fast loading times (the load times for my current PC kinda suck). I get that external hard drives are not desirable, but there's no way I can afford to get 20 tb of internal hd's, so it's going to have to stay external for now.

 

Also, what do you find is the best option for connecting multiple tv's throughout the house? Should I go fire tv stick, Raspberry Pi, something android? Obviously looking for affordable since there'll be 3 or 4 tv's running off the server. I do love theatre, but if it's not available on a machine, it's not the end of the world.

[legallink 187]

My experience is that you don't need a new server just have to find end clients that you like and make sure your media is pre-transcoded for the end clients.

[Guest asrequested]

The two main things to consider, would be how much transcoding you require and how strong is your network. If you plan on going wireless, an AC router or above be recommended.

[mastrmind11 717]

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/45044-server-upgrade-recommendations/

[arztonyou 17]

I would agree that you may not need to upgrade your server if you pick the right clients for your needs.  My server is an old i3 from several years ago that also serves as a client connected to my main home theater TV and receiver.  My family has four additional clients, but they aren't all running at the same time.  My kids use a FireTV (first generation) and my bedroom has an Nvidia ShieldTV (2015).  I've also tried several other streaming boxes.

 

Your choice of clients depends on what you need your clients to be able to do.  Since you aren't worried about games, I would consider your needs in three main categories: streaming services, live TV, and codec/transcoding needs for your own files.

 

Every android box has a different set of streaming services, so pick a box that has the services that are most important to you.  The Roku and ShieldTV have apps for most of the most popular streaming services, while a Pi or a NUC running Kodi will have no apps for streaming services.

 

If you to keep your old server, then you'll want to avoid as much transcoding by the server as possible.  Do you have a lot of mpeg2 video from DVD and/or recorded TV?  If so, you will need to buy a box that will play mpeg2 without transcoding or be prepared to spend many hours converting your files to the .h264 codec in a container that your box can handle.  The Roku boxes cannot play mpeg2, so that was never an option for me because I didn't want to spend the time to convert all my files from my DVDs.  Others have converted their files to be Roku friendly and love the Roku boxes.

 

Do you have a network tuner for live TV like a HDHomerun or something similar?  I could never get live TV to work well on the FireTV, and it was terrible on the FireTV stick, whereas I've had very good luck with live TV using the Shield TV or Pi with Kodi.  But then I'm using a Kodi PVR addon for TV and not Emby, so that's another possible complication.  The Shield TV can run the Emby AndroidTV client, but I haven't used it much for live TV.  There is also an app to directly connect to the HDHomerun to watch live TV, but then again you are not using Emby for TV. 

 

The short version:  the Shield TV is by far the best all around solution that I have tried, but it is not cheap.  If you don't need any streaming services, a newer Pi with Kodi (or possibly Emby Theater) can be a very good option that is affordable.  

 

 

There are many other Android boxes that I have never tried, but if you have any questions about specific boxes, I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts.

[Jack Burton 94]

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/45044-server-upgrade-recommendations/

Thanx, this is interesting. It really makes me wonder, what's the most important piece for a server? Is the cpu top priority, or does ram really have a bigger effect? I could be wrong, but I feel like I'm limited by using external drives, almost giving a throttling effect and upgrades can only do so much without swapping to internal drives

[Jack Burton 94]

I would agree that you may not need to upgrade your server if you pick the right clients for your needs.  My server is an old i3 from several years ago that also serves as a client connected to my main home theater TV and receiver.  My family has four additional clients, but they aren't all running at the same time.  My kids use a FireTV (first generation) and my bedroom has an Nvidia ShieldTV (2015).  I've also tried several other streaming boxes.

 

Your choice of clients depends on what you need your clients to be able to do.  Since you aren't worried about games, I would consider your needs in three main categories: streaming services, live TV, and codec/transcoding needs for your own files.

 

Every android box has a different set of streaming services, so pick a box that has the services that are most important to you.  The Roku and ShieldTV have apps for most of the most popular streaming services, while a Pi or a NUC running Kodi will have no apps for streaming services.

 

If you to keep your old server, then you'll want to avoid as much transcoding by the server as possible.  Do you have a lot of mpeg2 video from DVD and/or recorded TV?  If so, you will need to buy a box that will play mpeg2 without transcoding or be prepared to spend many hours converting your files to the .h264 codec in a container that your box can handle.  The Roku boxes cannot play mpeg2, so that was never an option for me because I didn't want to spend the time to convert all my files from my DVDs.  Others have converted their files to be Roku friendly and love the Roku boxes.

 

Do you have a network tuner for live TV like a HDHomerun or something similar?  I could never get live TV to work well on the FireTV, and it was terrible on the FireTV stick, whereas I've had very good luck with live TV using the Shield TV or Pi with Kodi.  But then I'm using a Kodi PVR addon for TV and not Emby, so that's another possible complication.  The Shield TV can run the Emby AndroidTV client, but I haven't used it much for live TV.  There is also an app to directly connect to the HDHomerun to watch live TV, but then again you are not using Emby for TV. 

 

The short version:  the Shield TV is by far the best all around solution that I have tried, but it is not cheap.  If you don't need any streaming services, a newer Pi with Kodi (or possibly Emby Theater) can be a very good option that is affordable.  

 

 

There are many other Android boxes that I have never tried, but if you have any questions about specific boxes, I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts.

Thanx for the info! I assumed any clients I use would be limited by the server machine, is this not the case? I can't imagine a client that would pull info from the server any faster than the server machine itself. I find some lag with load times on my main pc, android apps, and windows apps on laptops, so I figured upgrading the server machine would fix some issues. Of the 3 categories you mentioned, I'm only using my own files. No streaming, and no live tv, only files I have on my drives, ripped from my dvd/bluray collection

Edited February 19, 2017 by Jack Burton

[Guest asrequested]

Thanx, this is interesting. It really makes me wonder, what's the most important piece for a server? Is the cpu top priority, or does ram really have a bigger effect? I could be wrong, but I feel like I'm limited by using external drives, almost giving a throttling effect and upgrades can only do so much without swapping to internal drives

 

Take the drives out of their enclosures and make them internal.

[MSattler 387]

Shrug..... if you can use windows, and are using a newer Intel Chip just use hardware transcoding.

 

I picked up a Dell XPS system for $600 with 32GB of memory and a i7-6700.   Turned on hardware transcoding and have never looked back.   Whether clients need transcoding or not, I have yet run into an issue with it.   Now for storage, I use 2 unraid servers, but for Emby playback, I love hardware transcoding.

[arztonyou 17]

Thanx for the info! I assumed any clients I use would be limited by the server machine, is this not the case? I can't imagine a client that would pull info from the server any faster than the server machine itself. I find some lag with load times on my main pc, android apps, and windows apps on laptops, so I figured upgrading the server machine would fix some issues. Of the 3 categories you mentioned, I'm only using my own files. No streaming, and no live tv, only files I have on my drives, ripped from my dvd/bluray collection

 

 

Upgrading your hardware will help.  I was just pointing out that if the server is simply serving up the video as is because all your clients can handle it, then you don't need a top-of-the-line machine for the server.  It's when your server needs to do several simultaneous streams of on-the-fly transcoding of video, that the hardware requirements become a little more demanding.  If you know you are going to buy client hardware, then you might save yourself some money on the server if you think about avoiding transcoding.  In your case, since you only need to play your own files, you could use a Pi2, Pi3 or a low-end Intel NUC running LibreElec with the Emby addon in Kodi or a NUC running Windows with Kodi or Emby Theater and probably avoid transcoding.  Or you can go the same route as MSattler and upgrade to an i7 and not worry about transcoding because your hardware will handle it. 

 

You could buy a couple clients before upgrading the server and see how well your current setup works for you.  Then upgrade if you still feel it is necessary.

 

 

The other thing to worry about for client performance is your network.  If you are trying to watch Blu-ray quality files over your network, make sure you either have wireless AC or wired connections to your clients.  I use wireless AC for all but my main client, and it has worked fine for me.      

Edited February 19, 2017 by arztonyou

[Jack Burton 94]

 

 

 

The other thing to worry about for client performance is your network.  If you are trying to watch Blu-ray quality files over your network, make sure you either have wireless AC or wired connections to your clients.  I use wireless AC for all but my main client, and it has worked fine for me.      

Interesting. Any wireless AC recommendations?

[arztonyou 17]

Interesting. Any wireless AC recommendations?

 

I have the Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 R7000 router and have been happy with it, but I haven't looked at any newer models lately.  I was a slow adopter of blu-ray, so for a long time I was happy streaming SD quality over wireless N.  I have been pleasantly surprised in the last couple years that I have had such good luck with HD video over wireless AC.  However, my family still streams a lot of SD files and lower quality HD Netflix and recorded TV files, so I doubt we've ever had three blu-ray quality files streaming at the same time (maybe not even two such files at the same time).  

 

There are plenty of people who would immediately tell you to go wired and not even think about wireless.  If you have any thoughts of streaming 4k, then you probably need to go wired.  I haven't done anything with 4k yet, but I'm sure someone will chime in if you need some information.

[zigzagtshirt 55]

Unless someone else is giving you the media files already transcoded into the formats that will work with all of your clients, you will need to transcode them anyway before putting them on your server.  So if you don't have a good CPU, you're going to spend a lot of time transcoding them.  Even with a good CPU, it's going to take a lot of time and effort.

 

I have a mediocre CPU on my server.  My media is nearly 100% blu ray files.  I stream to all sorts of clients; some of them need transcoding, which my medicore CPU handles just fine.  I think this setup is the easiest with the least amount of effort involved.  I am of the mindset of wanting to spend less time messing around with files, and more time watching and enjoying them.

[zigzagtshirt 55]

Interesting. Any wireless AC recommendations?

Grab yourself a Unifi AC-Lite access point from Amazon.  They are around $80.  Just plug it right into your existing router/switch combo, and disable the wireless radio on it (or keep it on and use the same SSID/password on both using different channels)

 

Or grab a AC-PRO for a few dollars more.

 

Unifi makes outstanding networking products for enterprise/professional-consumer needs.  I have a AC-Lite and AC-HD in my home that are connected to a router/switch.  I ditched the consumer junk from best buy, etc.  Never going to look back.  All of the clients in my house have excellent signal in every part of the house.  Tests show a constant 450-500 Mbps minimum for all clients; some are much higher.  Emby works like an absolute dream on this.  Full blu ray streams without even the hint of hiccup.

 

The AC-HD is massive overkill.  I bought it as a beta tester for almost half off, but I would not pay the regular retail price for it.  The Lite and/or Pro would be more than enough for you.

 

Technically you're supposed to mount them on the ceiling, but I have mine on the bottom shelves of some side tables a few inches off the floor and they work perfectly.  Set up is very easy.  I'm willing to offer help if needed.

Edited February 20, 2017 by tsherran

[Jack Burton 94]

Grab yourself a Unifi AC-Lite access point from Amazon.  They are around $80.  Just plug it right into your existing router/switch combo, and disable the wireless radio on it (or keep it on and use the same SSID/password on both using different channels)

 

Or grab a AC-PRO for a few dollars more.

 

Unifi makes outstanding networking products for enterprise/professional-consumer needs.  I have a AC-Lite and AC-HD in my home that are connected to a router/switch.  I ditched the consumer junk from best buy, etc.  Never going to look back.  All of the clients in my house have excellent signal in every part of the house.  Tests show a constant 450-500 Mbps minimum for all clients; some are much higher.  Emby works like an absolute dream on this.  Full blu ray streams without even the hint of hiccup.

 

The AC-HD is massive overkill.  I bought it as a beta tester for almost half off, but I would not pay the regular retail price for it.  The Lite and/or Pro would be more than enough for you.

 

Technically you're supposed to mount them on the ceiling, but I have mine on the bottom shelves of some side tables a few inches off the floor and they work perfectly.  Set up is very easy.  I'm willing to offer help if needed.

Very cool thanx. I've never really heard of these before. Do they basically just boost your router signal?

[dcook 266]

CPU is important for streaming you will want at least an i3 or AMD equivalent.  

Memory is not so important 4GB should be fine.

 

If you take all your external drives out of their enclosures and connect them directly to the SATA bus on your motherboard you will have much better performance.

 

The USB connection is your weakest point right now.

[zigzagtshirt 55]

Very cool thanx. I've never really heard of these before. Do they basically just boost your router signal?

 

Good question, but a few things to understand first before answering

 

The technical definition of router, more or less, is a device that forwards data packets between two or more networks.  However, the term "router" has acquired a secondary definition since home networking started to become widespread some years ago.  When people say "router" in the context of consumer home networking, they are most likely referring the device that their internet service provider (ISP) provided or they bought at Best Buy, etc so they can have a wireless network at home.  This device is actually a combination of a router, network switch, and wireless access point (sometimes the modem is packaged in as well).  The point of this is to provide a simplistic, easy to set up, all-in-one device so your average non-technical user can have internet access that "just works". 

 

Unless you have a really expensive combo router that has all the new wireless technology, the performance can easily fall short when you are wanting to do something a lot heavier than watching YouTube or surfing the web since the hardware resources in the router are responsible for all of these different tasks (routing, switching, wireless, etc.)  But even with a really expensive one, one disadvantage remains, and that is if the placement of your combo router isn't in the most central, unobstructed location in your house, the wireless access point signals will be a lot weaker in certain areas.  So, if you're standing right next to it, the signal will be excellent, but if you want down the hall to the bedroom the signal might be a lot weaker.  This really all depends on the size, shape, dimensions etc. of your house.

 

With stand-alone wireless access points, such as Unifi from Ubiquiti, they can be placed anywhere so long as they are connected via Ethernet cable to the network switch (to your combo router, in your case).  Their only job is to do WiFi.  The performance is excellent, the signal is very strong and will generally go a lot farther than your combo-router's signal, and you get the flexibility to move them around and place them strategically.  I have my ethernet cables running along the baseboards in my house inside one of those cable-hiding sleeves that can be painted to match the baseboard.  They are designed to be mounted to the ceiling, but I have them on the bottom of shelves a few inches off the floor and they work just fine (I know of others who do this as well).  

 

I have two of them running the same network name (SSID) and same password.  So every device in my house will automatically move onto the better of the two depending on where it is at the moment.  I initially had one and I had it using the same SSID/pw as my combo-router wireless network.  I decided to buy a second Unifi AP because when my devices were on the combo-router wifi, the performance was a lot weaker than when I was in the other room and my device was connected to the Unifi AP.  So you can choose whether to leave the wifi on the combo-router on, or disable it and use the wifi on the Unifi AP(s).  I recommend having at least two and disabling the wifi on the combo-router.  Recently, I replaced my combo-router with one from Ubiquiti (the makers of Unifi APs).  It is the Edgerouter X and costs 50 dollars.  It is technically only a router, but can be configured to be used in router/switch combo mode, which is what I use.  So for about half of the cost of a really expensive high-end consumer combo-router, you can get a high performing router/switch, plus two separate wireless access points to place where ever you want.

 

Sorry for all of the technical explanation.  So the answer to your question is no, they don't "boost" your wifi;  they take the wifi duties off your combo-router and handle it on their own; and they do it much better for three main reasons- ability to place them strategically, allow you to have multiple access points all running the same wifi network, and enterprise level performance.

[Jack Burton 94]

Good question, but a few things to understand first before answering

 

The technical definition of router, more or less, is a device that forwards data packets between two or more networks.  However, the term "router" has acquired a secondary definition since home networking started to become widespread some years ago.  When people say "router" in the context of consumer home networking, they are most likely referring the device that their internet service provider (ISP) provided or they bought at Best Buy, etc so they can have a wireless network at home.  This device is actually a combination of a router, network switch, and wireless access point (sometimes the modem is packaged in as well).  The point of this is to provide a simplistic, easy to set up, all-in-one device so your average non-technical user can have internet access that "just works". 

 

Unless you have a really expensive combo router that has all the new wireless technology, the performance can easily fall short when you are wanting to do something a lot heavier than watching YouTube or surfing the web since the hardware resources in the router are responsible for all of these different tasks (routing, switching, wireless, etc.)  But even with a really expensive one, one disadvantage remains, and that is if the placement of your combo router isn't in the most central, unobstructed location in your house, the wireless access point signals will be a lot weaker in certain areas.  So, if you're standing right next to it, the signal will be excellent, but if you want down the hall to the bedroom the signal might be a lot weaker.  This really all depends on the size, shape, dimensions etc. of your house.

 

With stand-alone wireless access points, such as Unifi from Ubiquiti, they can be placed anywhere so long as they are connected via Ethernet cable to the network switch (to your combo router, in your case).  Their only job is to do WiFi.  The performance is excellent, the signal is very strong and will generally go a lot farther than your combo-router's signal, and you get the flexibility to move them around and place them strategically.  I have my ethernet cables running along the baseboards in my house inside one of those cable-hiding sleeves that can be painted to match the baseboard.  They are designed to be mounted to the ceiling, but I have them on the bottom of shelves a few inches off the floor and they work just fine (I know of others who do this as well).  

 

I have two of them running the same network name (SSID) and same password.  So every device in my house will automatically move onto the better of the two depending on where it is at the moment.  I initially had one and I had it using the same SSID/pw as my combo-router wireless network.  I decided to buy a second Unifi AP because when my devices were on the combo-router wifi, the performance was a lot weaker than when I was in the other room and my device was connected to the Unifi AP.  So you can choose whether to leave the wifi on the combo-router on, or disable it and use the wifi on the Unifi AP(s).  I recommend having at least two and disabling the wifi on the combo-router.  Recently, I replaced my combo-router with one from Ubiquiti (the makers of Unifi APs).  It is the Edgerouter X and costs 50 dollars.  It is technically only a router, but can be configured to be used in router/switch combo mode, which is what I use.  So for about half of the cost of a really expensive high-end consumer combo-router, you can get a high performing router/switch, plus two separate wireless access points to place where ever you want.

 

Sorry for all of the technical explanation.  So the answer to your question is no, they don't "boost" your wifi;  they take the wifi duties off your combo-router and handle it on their own; and they do it much better for three main reasons- ability to place them strategically, allow you to have multiple access points all running the same wifi network, and enterprise level performance.

Wow thanx so much for the concise answer. I understand a lot better now, and can see how a device like this can be helpful. Think I've decided to focus on what seems to be the 2 most pressing areas for my server. 1st I'll upgrade my processor from the dual core to an i3 or i5 (provided my mobo can handle it, never done this before), and 2nd pick up a Unifi device. Thanx for the recommendation

[Jack Burton 94]

CPU is important for streaming you will want at least an i3 or AMD equivalent.  

Memory is not so important 4GB should be fine.

 

If you take all your external drives out of their enclosures and connect them directly to the SATA bus on your motherboard you will have much better performance.

 

The USB connection is your weakest point right now.

Yeah, I figured the external drives are limiting me. I'm just really nervous about ripping them out of the enclosures if something goes wrong. 4tb loss is pretty hefty. Also I'll need to check how many sata ports I have, don't think I have 4 extra 

[Jack Burton 94]

Unless someone else is giving you the media files already transcoded into the formats that will work with all of your clients, you will need to transcode them anyway before putting them on your server.  So if you don't have a good CPU, you're going to spend a lot of time transcoding them.  Even with a good CPU, it's going to take a lot of time and effort.

 

I have a mediocre CPU on my server.  My media is nearly 100% blu ray files.  I stream to all sorts of clients; some of them need transcoding, which my medicore CPU handles just fine.  I think this setup is the easiest with the least amount of effort involved.  I am of the mindset of wanting to spend less time messing around with files, and more time watching and enjoying them.

What do you consider mediocre? like an i3?

[dcook 266]

I don't think you can put in a i3 or i5 into a motherboard that has a Core Duo, I think they are different socket type.

 

You should be able to get your hard drives out without damage, so they can always go back if needed.

 

You can get SATA PCI Card for less than $40 will allow you to add more SATA ports to your system.  (Assuming you have an available PCI expansion slot)

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I figured the external drives are limiting me. I'm just really nervous about ripping them out of the enclosures if something goes wrong. 4tb loss is pretty hefty. Also I'll need to check how many sata ports I have, don't think I have 4 extra 

Edited February 21, 2017 by dcook

[zigzagtshirt 55]

What do you consider mediocre? like an i3?

I have a AMD FX-6100 which is probably comparable to i3 performance, yes.

 

Someone else jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong...

Edited February 21, 2017 by tsherran

[Jack Burton 94]

I don't think you can put in a i3 or i5 into a motherboard that has a Core Duo, I think they are different socket type.

 

You should be able to get your hard drives out without damage, so they can always go back if needed.

 

You can get SATA PCI Card for less than $40 will allow you to add more SATA ports to your system.  (Assuming you have an available PCI expansion slot)

Damn, was hoping I could get away with some upgrades, but if I need a new mobo for an i5 then I guess I'm gonna have to start from scratch. Good to know about the pci slot, that's pretty handy. I'll look for a mobo with a good number of sata ports though, and make sure there's an extra pci slot and keep that in my back pocket. Thanx for the info!

[Guest asrequested]

As far as transcoding goes, also consider live TV recordings, not just playback. In my case, sometimes I'm recording three shows at once. I have convert to streaming format, enabled. So it's transcoding three streams, simultaneously. If you want to do that, you'll need a little more juice in your CPU.

[zigzagtshirt 55]

As far as transcoding goes, also consider live TV recordings, not just playback. In my case, sometimes I'm recording three shows at once. I have convert to streaming format, enabled. So it's transcoding three streams, simultaneously. If you want to do that, you'll need a little more juice in your CPU.

 

Does transcoding live TV use similar server resources as transcoding movies already on the server?  Or is it more intensive?  Less intensive?  Looking to implement live tv soon and trying to figure out what I'll need.