babgvant 143 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Ah, of course it has, but I have never used them! Okay, I set that up - configured it for HDMI from GPU to TV and audio through speakers. Sync seemed much better in MadVR and EVR+, but a little out in EVR (this is with 23.976 fps files, I have configured the Nvidia drivers to do a custom refresh rate of 23.976, and MadVR reports it as actually being 23.978), Obviously, I need to use my AVR for audio though, so I can use the home cinema sound set-up. Absolutely. Just need to move the pieces around and observe. 1) If you only go through the AVR (no HDMI to TV), is it better/worse/about the same? 2) if you disable refresh rate changing (i.e. run 24p files @ 59.94Hz) is there any difference? How long does it take to reproduce? Immediate, 5 min, 10, etc? 23.978 is off enough that you should see a repeated frame every so often, but that shouldn't affect A/V sync as long as you are using a single cable. Edited October 17, 2016 by babgvant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Thanks for this help... 1/ It's about the same 2/ Yes, in sync if I disable refresh rate changing (but looks horrible) I am in the UK so native refresh is set to 50hz for TV It is immediate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babgvant 143 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Thanks for this help... 1/ It's about the same 2/ Yes, in sync if I disable refresh rate changing (but looks horrible) I am in the UK so native refresh is set to 50hz for TV It is immediate. 1) let's try to run in that config then. 2) 24p @ 59.94Hz should run in 3/2 pull down mode. This will produce judder, is that what you mean by "horrible"? Or something else? Since your TV supports 50Hhz you can test that too. IME UK TV broadcasts are generally 25p (I live in the UK as well). Are you confident these files are 24p? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Okay, this is exciting, what is this 59.94 magic? I do have a range of files with different fps - recorded TV are 25 fps, but I have other ripped and downloaded content that is mostly 23.976 fps, but some are 24fps, 30fps / 60fps - (as per mediainfo) so I use auto refresh rate switching to keep from getting refresh rate judder. But - then I get the audio / video sync issues - especially on 23.976 fps content, which is the majority of what I watch, along with recorded tv at 25fps - TV at 50hz for those. Now, I have never used 59.94, but on your advice I changed the global refresh rate in the Nvidia drivers to 59hz, and turned off auto refresh rate switching in ET, MadVR reports it as 59.94. I then played back a range of different files with different fps (just for a minute or two) and initially it all seemed in sync and I didn't spot any judder. Also MadVR is not reporting dropped or repeated frames. I don't understand this, but if it works I am ecstatically happy Shall I monitor it for a few days and report back? Edited October 17, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babgvant 143 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Okay, this is exciting, what is this 59.94 magic? I do have a range of files with different fps - recorded TV are 25 fps, but I have other ripped and downloaded content that is mostly 23.976 fps, but some are 24fps, 30fps / 60fps - (as per mediainfo) so I use auto refresh rate switching to keep from getting refresh rate judder. But - then I get the audio / video sync issues - especially on 23.976 fps content, which is the majority of what I watch, along with recorded tv at 25fps - TV at 50hz for those. Now, I have never used 59.94, but on your advice I changed the global refresh rate in the Nvidia drivers to 59hz, and turned off auto refresh rate switching in ET, MadVR reports it as 59.94. I then played back a range of different files with different fps (just for a minute or two) and initially it all seemed in sync and I didn't spot any judder. Also MadVR is not reporting dropped or repeated frames. I don't understand this, but if it works I am ecstatically happy Shall I monitor it for a few days and report back? Please do. LMK how it works out. 59.94Hz is the refresh rate used (either 2x 29.97 or native) for broadcast content in North America. It's also used by a significant portion of PC monitors. I like to start there because of its wide usage it has to get tested a lot more than the other (esp 23.976Hz) rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stettler 27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 lisag, on 17 Oct 2016 - 12:40 PM, said: Okay, this is exciting, what is this 59.94 magic? Now, I have never used 59.94, but on your advice I changed the global refresh rate in the Nvidia drivers to 59hz, and turned off auto refresh rate switching in ET, MadVR reports it as 59.94. Don't bother: 59.94 is the real value. But Windows display 59hz. In fact, Windows handle 59hz and 60hz in the same way (59.94) but it list both so that it will be compatible with application that expect one or the other. Quote from Microsoft: "In Windows 7 and newer versions of Windows, when a user selects 60Hz, the OS stores a value of 59.94Hz. However, 59Hz is shown in the Screen refresh rate in Control Panel, even though the user selected 60Hz. (...) This behavior is by design for monitors and TVs that report only 59.94Hz but not 60Hz. Both 59Hz and 60Hz are translated to 59.94Hz before these values are sent to the driver. Therefore, the display is identical at 59Hz and 60Hz." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 59.94Hz is the refresh rate used (either 2x 29.97 or native) for broadcast content in North America. It's also used by a significant portion of PC monitors. I like to start there because of its wide usage it has to get tested a lot more than the other (esp 23.976Hz) rates. Quote from Microsoft: "In Windows 7 and newer versions of Windows, when a user selects 60Hz, the OS stores a value of 59.94Hz. However, 59Hz is shown in the Screen refresh rate in Control Panel, even though the user selected 60Hz. (...) This behavior is by design for monitors and TVs that report only 59.94Hz but not 60Hz. Both 59Hz and 60Hz are translated to 59.94Hz before these values are sent to the driver. Therefore, the display is identical at 59Hz and 60Hz." This is great information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) A little update... Recorded TV files, and other files at 25fps are not really watchable at 59.94 refresh rate, too juddery, so I am using MadVR to auto switch refreshrate to 50hz for those files, and to 59.94 for all others. I don't think the refresh rate changer within ET has that functionality. I have also been down a MadVR 'rabbit hole' by reading lots of guides on setting up MadVR, and have it configured for optimum settings for my hardware. Initial thoughts are that everything seems to be mostly in sync, picture quality seems okay, and juddering not too obvious, but I really need to properly sit and watch things over an extended period to be sure, and I have family visiting at the moment, so life is a bit busy. More as I have it! Edited October 20, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Another update: Playing back the recorded TV files which are 25fps at 50hz causes them to be out of sync. Emby detects these files as 1080p25, but aren't they actually interlaced? Playing them back at 1080i25 and the sync is much better. However, it is difficult to get auto refresh rate switching right, as they are detected at 1080p25, so the refresh rate switcher wants to play them back at 1080p50, I have to remove the 1080p50 option from MadVR refresh rate, but that means it will now playback any file with a 25 or 50 fps at 1080i25, I think? I could do with some help here, is Emby detecting them incorrectly at 1080p when they are in fact 1080i? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babgvant 143 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Another update: Playing back the recorded TV files which are 25fps at 50hz causes them to be out of sync. Emby detects these files as 1080p25, but aren't they actually interlaced? Playing them back at 1080i25 and the sync is much better. However, it is difficult to get auto refresh rate switching right, as they are detected at 1080p25, so the refresh rate switcher wants to play them back at 1080p50, I have to remove the 1080p50 option from MadVR refresh rate, but that means it will now playback any file with a 25 or 50 fps at 1080i25, I think? I could do with some help here, is Emby detecting them incorrectly at 1080p when they are in fact 1080i? You generally want (have) to have the PC do DI, which outputs the 1080i file as 1080p. This will double the framerate, making 50Hz or 59.94Hz the right setting depending on content. It is really unusual to have 1080p25, it might just be a cosmetic thing in ET. It's strange that you're observing better results with 25Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Thanks for that info. I tried some custom refresh rates in the Nvidia drivers and it seems that my TV doesn't support 1080p25 or 1080i75 or 1080p75. That leaves the options for these recorded TV files to be 1080i25, or 1080i50 or 1080p50. The sync is quite considerably out at either 1080i50 or 1080p50, but much closer at 1080i25, so I'll give that a go and see how it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babgvant 143 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Thanks for that info. I tried some custom refresh rates in the Nvidia drivers and it seems that my TV doesn't support 1080p25 or 1080i75 or 1080p75. That leaves the options for these recorded TV files to be 1080i25, or 1080i50 or 1080p50. The sync is quite considerably out at either 1080i50 or 1080p50, but much closer at 1080i25, so I'll give that a go and see how it looks. You shouldn't need to create custom refresh rates for 24p/50p/59p. They should be available by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 You shouldn't need to create custom refresh rates for 24p/50p/59p. They should be available by default. I was trying to set 1080p25 that wasn't available by default, but it turns out that my TV does not support it. As a general update, using 1080p59 and 1080i25, everything is now in sync, which is good! But playback is not absolutely totally smooth, it is not bad, and certainly watchable, but not really the videophile experience that I was hoping for. I can see some stuttering in long camera pans, I am not sure if this is refresh rate judder or dropped frames that I am seeing. I may try some other non-Emby solutions, to see if I can improve on overall quality. It is difficult as I really like Emby Server and the overall uniform GUI. Also, I have smaller, low spec PC's attached to other TV's in the house also running ET, but we have to switch theses between EVR / EVR+ and MadVR to playback different types of files correctly, which isn't very family friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37066 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Please try this version with EVR and let me know if the scaling issue is resolved: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfkyvfqj5l2ibe3/et.zip?dl=0 Just unzip it to any folder and test it out portable. thanks,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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