What NAS if wanting to transcode?

[Snapper 20]

So every Synology NAS has some flash memory where they put their bootloader.  Their NAS devices do not come with the OS pre-installed even if it may appear so.  The USB stick, or whatever you choose, replaces that flash memory.  The OS is installed on the drives you install.  By doing so, the OS can be installed on protected storage.  If a disk fails, you won't lose the OS, your volume information, or app settings.  Of course if you create an unprotected volume (e.g. raid 0 or shr with no parity) then you would lose all of that stuff along with your data.  The bootloader doesn't necessarily need to be protected, because if you lose that, you can either have that repaired on a Synology unit, upgrade to newer hardware, or with XPEnology, replace the boot disk (e.g. USB stick).  Then you would migrate the drives as though it were new hardware.  Having the OS installed on the drives is what makes drive migrations possible.  I hope that helps.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Snapper

[hifiaudio2 47]

Ok cool.  Thanks for your help so far!   So I would just follow the instructions over at the XPE forum and use a USB stick for the bootloader and go ahead and use my four 4tb Red drives for the initial OS install?  It can install the OS on them AND allow the current data to be migrated/read by the new setup?

 

 

Is this the exact post on their forum I should start from to try my first new install? Anything outdated about it?

 

http://xpenology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17

 

 

 

  I will try on a laptop I dont care about the data on initially to see how it goes.  Ultimately I will be transferring around 10TB of full BD rips (MKVs)  so I do not want to risk losing those. 

[Snapper 20]

Yes, except in step 7, you will deviate slightly.  You can either connect to the NAS with the provided DHCP address, or manually change it using Synology Assistant to a static address.  Then you would connect to the NAS either using Synology Assistant, or by typing the address into your browser like you normally would.  At that point you should see a screen asking if you want to migrate the existing volume.  It should say something about migrating from DS1812+ to DS3615xs (or similar device).  The step 7 in that guide assumes a new install with no migration.  You can also let it download the software and do the install automatically if your NAS has Internet connectivity.  If not, download the .pat file ahead of time, and choose the manual option.

 

I think doing a dry run without your current data drives is a good idea.  I did the same to make sure that was the direction I wanted to go before buying all new hardware.  Once you have the USB stick created, there is no need to redo those steps.  You can reuse that same USB stick in any computer you want to use XPEnology on.

 

Make sure you backup any critical data before doing the migration.  It worked for me and I am sure others, but no one can guarantee you won't run into issues.  The same is true if you were migrating to a genuine Synology device too.

[Deihmos 147]

I don't see the value in purchasing a NAS when you can put something together that does the exact same thing but is a lot more powerful and flexible. A Haswell i3 processor consumes about 7 watts on idle with the right power supply.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Deihmos

[gsnerf 26]

For most people the value is not having to put something on their own

[hifiaudio2 47]

Yeah had I known this was possible I would have gone this route from the beginning.    

 

I do need to find a well reviewed rackmount case with 12+  hot swap drive bays.  Also need to figure out the pros and cons of a hardware raid card vs onboard sata, the right MB, sata port expanders, etc since I have only hooked up normal sata cables in all of my custom built PCs.  My 1812+  is the first device I have ever had with hot swap bays.

Edited May 8, 2015 by hifiaudio2

[Spaceboy 2500]

I bought a nas because I want it to "just work" and it does that role perfectly. I wouldn't install Emby on it though. I'm happy to have a second device dedicated to doing that perfectly too

[hifiaudio2 47]

Yeah...  "just work"  is a nice feature!    My issue is I can see a forthcoming need for a bit of transcoding like the OP and the nas units, at least Synology's units,  seem underpowered for that function.  I would like to have only one always on device running my file shares, Emby, and Silicondust's upcoming DVR backend. 

[hifiaudio2 47]

Yes, except in step 7, you will deviate slightly.  You can either connect to the NAS with the provided DHCP address, or manually change it using Synology Assistant to a static address.  Then you would connect to the NAS either using Synology Assistant, or by typing the address into your browser like you normally would.  At that point you should see a screen asking if you want to migrate the existing volume.  It should say something about migrating from DS1812+ to DS3615xs (or similar device).  The step 7 in that guide assumes a new install with no migration.  You can also let it download the software and do the install automatically if your NAS has Internet connectivity.  If not, download the .pat file ahead of time, and choose the manual option.

 

I think doing a dry run without your current data drives is a good idea.  I did the same to make sure that was the direction I wanted to go before buying all new hardware.  Once you have the USB stick created, there is no need to redo those steps.  You can reuse that same USB stick in any computer you want to use XPEnology on.

 

Make sure you backup any critical data before doing the migration.  It worked for me and I am sure others, but no one can guarantee you won't run into issues.  The same is true if you were migrating to a genuine Synology device too.

Thanks again for your help so far Snapper.  I see a couple of different versions of the Xpenology software  / install method out there on their site.  What is the difference in some of the images or methods? GNoboot, XPEnoboot, etc? Why use one over the other? Do these have advantages to the USB method?  Are they easier?  More or less reliable?

[Spaceboy 2500]

Yeah... "just work" is a nice feature! My issue is I can see a forthcoming need for a bit of transcoding like the OP and the nas units, at least Synology's units, seem underpowered for that function. I would like to have only one always on device running my file shares, Emby, and Silicondust's upcoming DVR backend.

Totally agree, if you want one device then that's the way to go. A bought nas won't have the power to transcode. Personally I'd go with windows but whatever os floats your boat [emoji3]

[Deihmos 147]

Yea I would go with Windows too. I find power use under Windows is much lower than any other Os. Maybe because of all the Intel power management and I like things simple.

[thefirstofthe300 291]

Try 

$ sudo su
# echo 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/apps-z/mediabrowser/ubuntu trusty main' > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mediabrowser.list

Sometimes you will still get permissions issues if you aren't elevated to root in the terminal.

[Snapper 20]

Thanks again for your help so far Snapper.  I see a couple of different versions of the Xpenology software  / install method out there on their site.  What is the difference in some of the images or methods? GNoboot, XPEnoboot, etc? Why use one over the other? Do these have advantages to the USB method?  Are they easier?  More or less reliable?

 

I am only familiar with xpenoboot.  I haven't looked at the other bootloaders.  Right or wrong, it seemed to me that xpenoboot was the newest, so that's what I went with.  It also looked straight forward and easy to use, so that was enough for me to give it a try.  All I can say is I have no regrets.  It's a pretty simple and straightforward bootloader.

 

Sometimes you have to wait for compatibility updates before installing the latest DSM software.  For instance, DSM 5.2 was just released, and there are some issues with the current bootloaders.  They are all working on it though, and I am content to wait on updating until they get them resolved.  You can always roll back if you like being an early adopter and run into issues.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Snapper

[stangri 2]

If you want a powerful small box NAS, you've gotta go with HP Proliant Microserver (the most powerful Gen8 you can afford). I'm running Emby on a disastrously underpowered previous-generation box -- N54L, but I have very modest transcoding needs.

[hifiaudio2 47]

I am only familiar with xpenoboot.  I haven't looked at the other bootloaders.  Right or wrong, it seemed to me that xpenoboot was the newest, so that's what I went with.  It also looked straight forward and easy to use, so that was enough for me to give it a try.  All I can say is I have no regrets.  It's a pretty simple and straightforward bootloader.

 

Sometimes you have to wait for compatibility updates before installing the latest DSM software.  For instance, DSM 5.2 was just released, and there are some issues with the current bootloaders.  They are all working on it though, and I am content to wait on updating until they get them resolved.  You can always roll back if you like being an early adopter and run into issues.

 

Well I am going a slightly different route.. we will see if it works out.  I bought a 1u Dell server with a Xeon e3-1240v3 processor off Ebay and will pair that with used external Dell MD1000 chassis (MD1200 if I can find one of those cheaply enough at some point).  I am going to install Server 2012 essentials because I want to run ReFS for its data integrity capabilities (since my family photos / videos will be on here as well).   I will run Emby server and the HDHR software on Windows 2012 and then may try a VM running Xpenology so I can keep the DS audio app that I really like.  Nice fun side project  .

[Snapper 20]

Well I am going a slightly different route.. we will see if it works out.  I bought a 1u Dell server with a Xeon e3-1240v3 processor off Ebay and will pair that with used external Dell MD1000 chassis (MD1200 if I can find one of those cheaply enough at some point).  I am going to install Server 2012 essentials because I want to run ReFS for its data integrity capabilities (since my family photos / videos will be on here as well).   I will run Emby server and the HDHR software on Windows 2012 and then may try a VM running Xpenology so I can keep the DS audio app that I really like.  Nice fun side project   .

 

I get where you are going, but why Server Essentials?  You are using server class hardware, so why not do Hyper-V or ESX, and then virtualize server essentials and xpenology?  With Essentials, I think you are limited to one or two VMs, and as a result, I think you are really limiting yourself.  You may not think you need it now, but being able to virtualize more will open the door to other projects.  Maybe you want to play around with OSX, Linux, or try some other projects like pfSense, freenas, or one of the other specialized projects that are available.

 

I have an ESX server myself, and have also used Hyper-V.  I use it primarily for a test lab for professional reasons, but it comes in handy for personal reasons too when I want to quickly spin up a new machine to try something out.  Now if you plan on doing so much transcoding that you will be taxing that Xeon processor, then maybe it doesn't make a lot of sense.  But then it may also not make a lot of sense to virtualize anything else for that matter.  Be careful, the last thing you want processor starved is your storage server.

[hifiaudio2 47]

All very true...  I will have to give that route a bit of thought as well.   I have been on vacation this week and I think most of my gear has come in while I was gone.  Excited to start messing with it.   Been quite a while since I used ESX.  What is the current version that would be appropriate for what I want?  Vsphere 6?   What is the pricing?  I can get MS products for free,  so that keeps me on their stuff.

Edited May 21, 2015 by hifiaudio2

[stangri 2]

ESXi 6.0 is free for non-commercial use with pretty generous hardware caveats (if I'm not mistaken up to 16CPUs, 64Gb RAM, etc.).

[famulor 1]

Hi guys im back

 

if i want to build my own computer/nas and wanting it to be able to transcode 7-8 1080p movies (not real 1080p) at the same time what kind of hardware am i looking for? i need it to be as simple as human possible since ive never tried to setup things like this before.

 

Oh and what kind of upload would that require? currently i have a 20mbit upload. Is that too low?

 

 

essentially i want to have my own "cloud solution"

Edited June 19, 2015 by famulor

[thefirstofthe300 291]

A 20 mbit upload is going to choke on 7-8 full HD streams IF they are all going outside of your LAN. You will have to transcode down to 720p at about 2 Mbps. The quality should be pretty good but nothing earth-shattering. If you are only sending out 1 or 2 transcodes over the internet at a time, you should be fine.

 

As far as transcode power, you are going to need a lot. My i7-4770k is choking on trying to do four 10 Mbps to 2 Mbps simultaneously, however, if you turn of transcode throttling and have it go ahead and finish up the transcode, you should be able to stream more than four. I would say that an i7 should be able to do 7 streams at the same time with the right tweaking and as long as everyone doesn't start streaming at the same time. Also, with direct streaming in your LAN, you won't have a transcode happening so that should help a LOT. If you even have offsets of 15 minutes, it will make a huge difference as long as transcode throttling is off.

[Nnyan 0]

I get where you are going, but why Server Essentials?  You are using server class hardware, so why not do Hyper-V or ESX, and then virtualize server essentials and xpenology?  With Essentials, I think you are limited to one or two VMs, and as a result, I think you are really limiting yourself.  You may not think you need it now, but being able to virtualize more will open the door to other projects.  Maybe you want to play around with OSX, Linux, or try some other projects like pfSense, freenas, or one of the other specialized projects that are available.

 

I have an ESX server myself, and have also used Hyper-V.  I use it primarily for a test lab for professional reasons, but it comes in handy for personal reasons too when I want to quickly spin up a new machine to try something out.  Now if you plan on doing so much transcoding that you will be taxing that Xeon processor, then maybe it doesn't make a lot of sense.  But then it may also not make a lot of sense to virtualize anything else for that matter.  Be careful, the last thing you want processor starved is your storage server.

I'm running ESXi 6 on a Supermicro server (fully supported in ESXi 6) and the issue I'm having is that certain things don't visualize well (ex: Unraid) and it's a PITA to get local storage working using RDM  (there are workarounds but I found them unreliable).  Other then that you have to passthrough an entire HBA to a VM which also has it's difficulties.  I myself am changing up my original plans and going to separate the storage from the ESXi.  

[Fnordje 3]

If you need cloud storage I can recommend to abstract something with DAVFS. You can just mount those in Linux. For example, I use TransIP for that (1 TB cloud storage for free).

 

I don't see the point of transcoding. If you need different qualities, either encode it to those beforehand or download encoded versions. You end up saving yourself a lot of so-called 'required' resources on your host(s).

[Luke 37138]

@@Snapper

@@hifiaudio2

@@Fnordje

@@Nnyan

@@thefirstofthe300

@@famulor

@@stangri

@@Spaceboy

@@gsnerf

@@Deihmos

 

We now have Emby Server for Western Digital NAS in testing:

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/59597-emby-server-for-western-digital-nas

 

Please try it out and report your experience. Thanks !