ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) Hey team. I've noticed lately that Intro Detection seems to do nothing. I will get new episodes added and, looking at the logs, it doesn't seem like it's even trying. I do have the library settings correct to scan for them on media add and scheduled task. I try to run the scheduled task manually and it completes instantly. It says it ran for 0 minutes and 0 seconds. Though, looking with the Chapter API plug-in, I have PLENTY of shows that do not have intro start/end markers. It is quite tedious to go in and add them manually. Log is attached. I am running on Emby 4.8.3 on Docker for Windows. 2024-03-13 23:02:56.322 Info TaskManager: Executing Detect Episode Intros 2024-03-13 23:02:56.402 Info TaskManager: Detect Episode Intros Completed after 0 minute(s) and 0 seconds I would like to run this scheduled task and have it find the intros for everything. It's quite a little annoyance to be watching an episode of a show and it has the Skip Intro but then the very next episode won't. The Chapter API's "Intro Detection" feature also never works. Add Job Action Failed No intro info data available from submitted files or Intro DB It's worth mentioning that I don't have any files to submit and figured it would rely on that "internal Intro DB" but maybe that doesn't exist? These could be separate issues, but I wanted to mention it because the plug-in that I thought could help fix this automatically doesn't and I just can't go watching every episode and looking for where the intro start/end markers should be. Please let me know if there's anything else you need. Thank you! embyserver.txt Edited March 14 by ryderjj89 Added library setting screenshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37125 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Quote Though, looking with the Chapter API plug-in, I have PLENTY of shows that do not have intro start/end markers. hi there, can you please provide a specific example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Luke said: hi there, can you please provide a specific example? Absolutely. I have an entire summary from the Chapter API plug-in that shows very low percentages of episodes with markers. Here's an example from Masters of the Air. Another show, Supernatural, shows 11% which is incredibly low. The show, The Terror, was missing some and I had to add them manually for some episodes. From my understanding, it needs multiple episodes in a season to try and generate them, but some of these shows have dozens of episodes per season with no markers OR markers will start and end after the intro has played so not marked properly. Edited March 14 by ryderjj89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) For Masters of the Air, this may be because that intro happened so late into the show - in this case 10:55 (see below - all this data is from the original Introskip Plugin). I believe the fingerprint time cut off for the Core is only 10 minutes - thus it not thinking there is no Intro. I believe there used to be a way to force emby core introskip to use a longer fingerprint length to capture these anomalies (editing a config file) - but don't make it too long as it will take longer to fingerprint each episode - the Plugin is set to 20 minutes for a 60 minute show. (it's dynamic based on the show length). I don't use the Core Introskip, so @Lukewill need to advise the config file to edit. On shows where this isn't the case - it may simply be that the Intro's are inaudibly different - thus the Introskip algorithm (based on Audio, not Video) simply does not match Intro's. In the case of Supernatural, the Plugin has only matched 2 episodes out of the 22 as well - so there is no 'fault' here. Edited March 14 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) @Luke I still personally think that 10 minutes is too short, especially for a lot of modern shows. Using the Introskip Plugin - on a 30K episode db ~800 of them are greater than 10 minutes. The Plugin picks them up, the Core is likely to ignore them ? Edited March 14 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Yeah the intro does start late into the show. Fire Country is another example. Plenty of episodes with no intros but they do happen sometimes later in the show. As for supernatural, there is over 300 episodes but only 11% have the markers. That's definitely not right. Almost every single episode features the intro in a different style for that season. It's the same for that season, just a different style basically. Like all of season 1 will be in one style, season 2 in another, etc. Wouldn't be an issue if the task would run but it doesn't. I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 43 minutes ago, ryderjj89 said: As for supernatural, there is over 300 episodes but only 11% have the markers. That's definitely not right. Almost every single episode features the intro in a different style for that season. It's the same for that season, just a different style basically. Like all of season 1 will be in one style, season 2 in another, etc. Yep - yet another function that the Plugin has over the Core - 'Stats' - - it writes to a txt file all the 'Shows/Seasons' that do not have a 100% detection rate. For supernatural - agree it's poor - but as I said above, this is almost certainly because the Intro's are not the same even within the same Season. I'm almost certain the Core also only compares within the Season - otherwise it would have a major bug on it's hands because as you say, many shows have a different 'Intro' per season. This is my results per Season for Supernatural. Yet another feature missing from the Core - is to have the choice whether to exclude that show in the first place - and in a show with poor results, we also gave you the choice to 'clear' the ones it did pick up - so at least it's consistent across the show/season .. Exclude - Clear All - Maybe one day Emby will gets this functionality back .. but I wouldn't hold your breath .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Quote For supernatural - agree it's poor - but as I said above, this is almost certainly because the Intro's are not the same even within the same Season. Can you clarify on this? Maybe you mean the intro isn't at the same spot? That would be accurate for sure. However, the intro itself is the same in each season for all episodes in that season. If you take a show like Knight Rider which has the intro at the very start of every episode vs all these shows that throw the intro somewhere after the beginning, there's a huge difference. So I guess I wish it was more consistent or like you said, had an easy way to just remove all of them. Masters of the Air's intro is damn near 2 minutes long tho which is another reason for wanting this to work right lol. I hope Luke has some more info for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14937 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, ryderjj89 said: Can you clarify on this? 4 hours ago, rbjtech said: it may simply be that the Intro's are inaudibly different The issue is likely that, while the intros all seem the same to you as a human, to the computer, they are actually different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, ryderjj89 said: Can you clarify on this? Maybe you mean the intro isn't at the same spot? That would be accurate for sure. However, the intro itself is the same in each season for all episodes in that season. It has nothing to do with the location of the Intro - that's why each intro has what is called a 'fingerprint' of the first X minutes of the show. The fingerprint is based on a technology called Chromaprint - which basically converts that Audio passage into patterns/numbers. The process is then to 'compare' one fingerprint to another, for all episodes in a season. If a section is found to be the same pattern - is marked as an intro. (start and end) However - if there is any difference, which may not even be audible to you and I, it will reject it as an intro. There is a tolerance that has been set - set it too low and it will pick up all sorts of background noise as an intro or set it too high (strict) and it won't match anything. Thus, there is always some margin for error. We (the original Introskip devs) did a massive amount of work on getting the detection 'just right' - but ultimately if a show doesn't detect - it's not because of the Algorithm used - it's because it is different across episodes .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Ah gotcha. Interesting stuff. Cause watching the show, you wouldnt ever really notice it being "different" in that sense. Just that it may not happen at the same point. Hell, out of all the shows that I have that have intros, supernatural is probably one of the most consistent as far as having it but if it's having issues detecting, I'm not sure what we as end users can do about that. I'm not gonna go and manually add them for 300 episodes lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 9 minutes ago, ebr said: The issue is likely that, while the intros all seem the same to you as a human, to the computer, they are actually different. @ebrCan you kindly confirm if the core Introskip fingerprint duration can be changed ? As in the MOTA episode, that is likely the reason as the Plugin detects them all fine. I seem to recall @Lukesaying this could be modified in a config file .. but I can't find the forum post atm ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, ryderjj89 said: Ah gotcha. Interesting stuff. Cause watching the show, you wouldnt ever really notice it being "different" in that sense. Just that it may not happen at the same point. Hell, out of all the shows that I have that have intros, supernatural is probably one of the most consistent as far as having it but if it's having issues detecting, I'm not sure what we as end users can do about that. I'm not gonna go and manually add them for 300 episodes lol. The ChapterAPI Intro detection was attempting (and suceeding imo) to close this detection gap - and use the power of the 'fingerprint' in a 'cloud based' lookup to provide the Intro Details without needing to have an actual match to a different episode. It's downfall was the mechanism to upload the details - as it couldn't be done from emby when 'watching' the show, it had to be done as an 'admin' and admins are simply not going to want to do this. Once uploaded - that 'Intro/fingerprint' was available for anybody to use - it just needed a 'match' with your own file to find the actual location. Thus the 'difference' between episodes was no longer an issue. It was very clever and had massive possibilities (to detect 'Previously on' and all sorts) - but without user support to provide the details - it was never going to be successful, thus it was removed from the Plugin - hence it not working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 A cloud based solution for that sounds nice actually. If it was for a greater purpose like that I wouldn't mind contributing if it just meant creating the markers but if it was just for myself and the few people that use my server, no. It would be time consuming either way especially on larger shows. And even more so on ones you have to watch until the intro shows. Wooo boy lol. I do enjoy the intro skip feature. Comes in handy over just fast forwarding/rewinding to get to where it ends. But it sounds like it needs more work for it to work well. I wonder how Plex does it. I ditched them a long time ago, before they even had a feature like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ryderjj89 said: A cloud based solution for that sounds nice actually. If it was for a greater purpose like that I wouldn't mind contributing if it just meant creating the markers but if it was just for myself and the few people that use my server, no. It would be time consuming either way especially on larger shows. And even more so on ones you have to watch until the intro shows. Wooo boy lol. Exactly that - remember, all the info needed on what show, what epsiode etc is already available - so you would simply have to 'pause' have a function on the client to 'Add Intro Start' and then pause again for 'Add Intro End' and that's it - the plugin would then create the fingerprint, upload it with the details (remember it's not the actual 'intro', its a binary pattern - so no copyright issues) and then it's saved for the next person to use in an automated scheduled fashion. One person has marked it - everyone else can see if they have the same fingerprint and then use with your timings or 'find' that pattern as an intro. 23 minutes ago, ryderjj89 said: I wonder how Plex does it. I ditched them a long time ago, before they even had a feature like that. Plex uses Chromaprint as well - for Intro's they were the first, but the Emby Plugin was the first to do it for Credit detection - that uses a combo of Chroma, black frame detection etc. Plex now have credit detection as well I believe. 23 minutes ago, ryderjj89 said: But it sounds like it needs more work for it to work well. For duplicate Intro's - It's works well but it's not perfect - If I get 5 minutes, I have the stats for my entire library so can get an overall % of 100% detected episodes per show. Might make for an interesting statistic. Edited March 14 by rbjtech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14937 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryderjj89 27 Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Thanks ebr. That's a nice flag there. Would like to see that in the UI. Any word on why the task starts and finishes immediately with nothing in the log other than it starting and stopping right away? That just mean it doesn't see anything to detect or some other issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 17 hours ago, ryderjj89 said: Thanks ebr. That's a nice flag there. Would like to see that in the UI. Any word on why the task starts and finishes immediately with nothing in the log other than it starting and stopping right away? That just mean it doesn't see anything to detect or some other issues? For Core, If you change the IntroDetectionFingerPrintLength, then you'll need to Refresh the metadata on those items for them to be picked up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusher11 855 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 What happened with the plugin? There was a bit of movement to open the source a couple of weeks ago, but that seems to have been it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 10 minutes ago, crusher11 said: What happened with the plugin? There was a bit of movement to open the source a couple of weeks ago, but that seems to have been it. @chefAny news on this ? There a couple of functions in the Plugin that are broken - not major stuff, but the intro images are no longer displayed in the GUI for example. Given the extra functionality as demostrated above is unlikely to ever happen in the Core - having the source will allow users (like me) to try and keep it going for as long as we can .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusher11 855 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 As I said in whatever thread led to that discussion, I'd really like a way to use the plugin without having to alter the user-facing chapters. That's really the only functionality it seemed to be missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 minutes ago, crusher11 said: As I said in whatever thread led to that discussion, I'd really like a way to use the plugin without having to alter the user-facing chapters. That's really the only functionality it seemed to be missing. That's just a simple case of don't write the normal chapter markers, just write the hidden ones only. I have the source for that part (@cheesegeezer wrote it) - but I only have an old source for the main part - so just need the latest from @chefand then I can recompile the entire DLL. I've got some edits I want to make as well, such as the verbose logging when adding chapters, but pretty minor stuff - it's been working perfectly for me for years .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef 3746 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 5 hours ago, rbjtech said: That's just a simple case of don't write the normal chapter markers, just write the hidden ones only. I have the source for that part (@cheesegeezer wrote it) - but I only have an old source for the main part - so just need the latest from @chefand then I can recompile the entire DLL. I've got some edits I want to make as well, such as the verbose logging when adding chapters, but pretty minor stuff - it's been working perfectly for me for years .. has it been years? LOL. I was under the impression that the version on github was the most up to date one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4289 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) On 15/03/2024 at 23:25, chef said: has it been years? LOL. I was under the impression that the version on github was the most up to date one. Ah cool ok - I see it's now Public - Thanks @chef- I hope you are well The source builds ok with the latest 4.8 Nuget so lets see if it still works ok .. Edited March 17 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusher11 855 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 47 minutes ago, rbjtech said: Ah cool ok - I see it's now Public - Thanks @chef- I hope you are well The source builds ok with the latest 4.8 Nuget so lets see if it still works ok .. Time to create a thread in the Plugins forum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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